Sierra - Return of the Strawberries and New Babies

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 11:06 PM, Fluffy14 said:

I see mums walking with babies in strollers glued to the phone, no communication between mum and babe.  When outside walking you can talk nonstop about trees, bees, birds, cats, the sky, anything really. 

Really? As a mother of 2, 2 & under I am one of those mums who pushes her pram (& sometimes even her toddler on the swing!) while on my phone.  Right now I'm at the airport with my baby in the Ergo on my phone.  Parenting is boring & isolating at times. 

I spend hours interacting with my kids and yeah I like to be on my phone sometimes too.   Stop the judgment because you don't know our lives. 

From a young mum 

and sierra you can eff off, no one believes you  

Constance Hall says it better

“To the woman at the park, looking at her phone, ignoring her children, I salute you. For not giving into the public perception that you should be switched on, 24 hours a day,” she wrote.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2462713/facebook-post-saluting-struggling-moms-goes-viral/

[Fluffy14]

Stop the Judgement?Because we don't know your Lives?   Well I am sorry you feel judged. I am sorry you feel isolated and lonely. I don't think you understand our lives without technology.

I raised my children in the 90s and 2000s . Before technology really took off and everyone had a cell phone. In fact , internet as something to do didnt really come about till 2000 or later.  if i remember right. So no facebook , no chat rooms, no communication.The only time we could lessen the isolation was to be at home on our phone either attached to the wall, or one that went cordless.  So a mother then was the epitome of isolation. People were either home or not. Even if someone was lonely the opportunity wasn't always there. Coffee shops were not a thing yet.  Play groups may or may not have existed depending where you lived. No play group where I lived. In fact not much at all to connect mothers with anyone really. As far as information on Motherhood?  Parenting magazine. No births on youtube, nothing, no bloggers, nothing. I had 2 books at my disposal that showed pictures of birth. That was it. Times have changed.

As far as phones for mums, I have friends who are teachers and have been for quite a long time. Long enough to see a difference in parenting with or without the phones. It can be a negative thing, and not all parents have restraint as to when to not be involved with it.

we have a generation of children who are growing up with devices. Babies as young as 6 months in front of screens. Drso etc are worried about the developing brain in babies and children and the negative affects on this generation have yet to be seen. 

I am sorry you are bored and lonely, you are not alone, there have been generations of mothers before you in the same position.

[Shadoewolf]

One of the things both my therapist and Hubby's said (not knowing each other, 2 different offices) was that our constant exposure to the light from our various screens TV/phone/laptop is part of the reason we're having issues with insomnia and trouble concentrating. Some about the part of the brain that the light effects. We try and have no screens for an hour before bed.  

Even today, I threw a fit because the weather was gorgeous and everyone was inside staring at their phones. I have one game on my phone, Pokemon Go because it gets me walking, and Facebook. That's it. Hubby has like 10 games, Insta/Snapchat, etc.  so do the kiddos. I took everyone's phones away, loaded them all into the car and we all went and played street hockey at the local park for more than an hour. Tomorrow's weather is supposed to be similar and everyone's phones are going up until we get some major yard work done, cuz it's been avoided in favor of electronics. 

When Oldest Wolfie was born in 2000 AOL and mIRC chat were just getting big. I had family members who were online all day and all night. They couldn't get away. The instant connectivity to people all over the world was both facinating and addictive. It's part of why I like it here. 

I like my phone for practical purposes.  Alarms, schedule apps, and being able to be reached when I'm out somewhere. My phone HAS to have a good camera, because I do extensive amounts of photography as a hobby and it's lighter than my professional equipment. 

Facebook is great for keeping up with family and friends but I can live without it.  I can leave my phone upstairs all day and not freak out. There are times I leave it home when I go out because I want quiet time just for me. Family and friends know NOT to call or text me when the kids have practices or games because I won't answer, I'm vested in what they're doing. 

I think the key as in all things is moderation.

[Iokaste]

There are many many reasons to keep your screen-time in check, I'm just sick of people always getting worked up over those "darn young moms in the park with their strollers". 
I've yet to see anyone complain that the dads aren't even in the park, or how awfull if dad in a check-out line looks at his phone (wich I see every bit as often as mom-with-stroller). 
If all these well-meaning mom-bashers spend their energy figuring out if there is a young mom in their life they could lend a hand, instead of wagging their finger at, that would be nice. 

[Shadoewolf]

Oooo touchy! Its nothing to do with young moms in the park. Its moms AND DADS in the park not paying attention to their kids cuz they are too engrossed in their phone. Its little ones tugging on their parents' leg saying they need to go potty and basically being ignored because Mom or Dad are too engrossed in their phone. Which I holler at my own husband for doing sometimes. 

I *think* the point of the post is that a walk is the perfect time to teach kids words, or colors or animal sounds, not reading your Facebook. A trip to the park isn't the time to catch up the latest Game of Thrones episode. Its saying imagine how a little kid feels calling "Hey Daddy! Watch me!" 5 or 6 timesand Dad doesn't even look up because he's on the phone. And it *seems* to happen more often with the younger moms and dads because they've been raised in the electronics age. A mom/dad who is 35-40 isn't going balk at no phones at the dinner table because we never had that problem! Whereas these younger parents are practically raised with a phone in their hand, and are raising their kids the same way. It's a generational thing.

And most of us here at FJ tend to shy away from mom-bashing/mommy wars on principle. I for one DO help out other parents whenever I can, as I think many others do as well. 

[season of life]

Didn't Sierra used to do something on Friday or whatever in which she showed appreciation to someone? One day it was cops or firefighters, but that went away quickly and she never posted anything about her hood deed day. I was reminded of that when reading about her phone pledge.

[Lurky]

11 hours ago, Iokaste said:

I'm just sick of people always getting worked up over those "darn young moms in the park with their strollers". 
I've yet to see anyone complain that the dads aren't even in the park, or how awfull if dad in a check-out line looks at his phone (wich I see every bit as often as mom-with-stroller). 
If all these well-meaning mom-bashers spend their energy figuring out if there is a young mom in their life they could lend a hand, instead of wagging their finger at, that would be nice. 

I find it *fascinating* that all these busybodies bemoaning how awful technology is, and how bad mothers are, etc etc, wouldn't bat an eyelid at me going babywalking with my friends on maternity leave.  It's that weird thing where if a mother is on the phone she's "ignoring" her child, but if she's chatting to a friend, it's fine.  And yes, it's always blame-the-mother.

It's all bullshit, but I am comforted by the fact that people have always done this - when radio was introduced, people said it would stop kids learning to sing (because mothers would stop singing to their children); when printing was introduced, it was also immoral because it would make people lazy; basically, whenever a new technology is introduced, there's a minority of people who will decide that it's the worst thing ever...  but it's worth remembering that this minority of people have always ALWAYS said that it was better in the olden days, that the technology they choose not to use is OMG THE WORST! and that especially, child-rearing isn't as good as how they did it.

[justoneoftwo]

Not only is it not as good, they had it so much harder.  You think your isolated?  Well we had it so much worse.  You think its hard work because of X well it used to be so much harder.

There are things that are harder now, and ways in which it got easier.  Maybe its a balance and people should stop judging all the time.

There are definitely times parents pay too much attention to their phones.  But there are also times when its the only way to communicate with your support network. For some that trip to the park is their bonding time, for others its the place the kids learn independent play.  Its hard not to judge, but when we do its often based upon our own assumptions, not the person we are looking at.

[nickelodeon]

I think it was "You Matter Monday" and she only did it once or twice. It came across as a weird anti-BLM statement, with a side of holier-than-thou conspicuous do-goodery.

[Fluffy14]

16 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

One of the things both my therapist and Hubby's said (not knowing each other, 2 different offices) was that our constant exposure to the light from our various screens TV/phone/laptop is part of the reason we're having issues with insomnia and trouble concentrating. Some about the part of the brain that the light effects. We try and have no screens for an hour before bed.  

YES YES YES. At 18 my daughter was in a car accident and got what they all said was a concussion. Nope it was a brain injury. Because of litigation our lawyers had her see every specialist out there from neurosurgeons to neuropsychologist . Inner Ear specialists, headache specialists, physio therapists.....every friggen body. Every single one of them said. NO SCREEN TIME BEFORE BED.  It fries your brain.

And i can attest to that because I ignored all that advice myself and decided it was okay to lay in bed reading Freejinger up to two hours before bed.....the result? NO SLEEP for hours. And if I did sleep it was fitful and full of crazy- assed- fundy dreams.

[Fluffy14]

I think it's really funny that a general observation of parents while out and about  in the shops, in the parking lots, and parks etc......has turned us all into "busybodies" . I am just old enough to remember a time when there were no phones to compete with and how different it is now. Younger people don't know what that difference looks like.

Shadowolf completely understood my comments about walking outside in the stroller. It is the one place to communicate to your kid where there is no screen competition .......you are in the great outdoors. Enjoy it .

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

6 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

It came across as a weird anti-BLM statement,

Bureau of Land Management??

[Wenny]

1 hour ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Bureau of Land Management??

Black lives matter

[BabyFactoryClosing]

Just weighing in on the "moms on phones thing". Maybe my upbringing was weird but my mom and my friends moms didn't have smart phones but they sure as hell weren't taking us for walks and teaching us colors. My mom was either watching soaps, talking to her friends on the landline, visiting friends or doing stuff that needed to be done around the house while promptly kicking us all out of the house all. Day. Long. The rare occasions we went to a park or anything of the kind we were told to go nuts and a book was pulled out to aid in ignoring us. And man, crazy fundie light religious crap aside I had a great childhood and have a great relationship with my parents as do all my friends. Lots of studies have shown that we have the most kidcentric society in recorded history. Parents spend plenty of time with their kids. Screens for kids is a different issue entirely and my kids have extremely limited screen time of any time, but frankly when we make our almost daily trek to the park my kids don't need me to watch them kick their leg 400 times and they know it. There's a difference between ignoring/neglecting your kid and just refusing to stop the entire universe to witness their every move and whim

[Lurky]

8 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

Shadowolf completely understood my comments about walking outside in the stroller. It is the one place to communicate to your kid where there is no screen competition .......you are in the great outdoors. Enjoy it .

So next time my friend on maternity leave texts me about where we're going for our weekly walk, I should turn her down because she should be communicating with her child, not with me.  If she doesn't spend that time continuously talking about trees and colours, the child will grow up neglected.  Got it.

(ETA I'll remember to chastise her for being on her phone while I'm at it, I'm sure she'll thank me)

[Shadoewolf]

Nobody is saying that interaction has to be ALL the time. Every parent can use a break both mental and physical. But I can't tell you how many times I've been smacked into by unruly kids whose parents aren't paying attention. Or stopped toddlers from running down aisles or out of stores because they've climbed out of the car shaped cart and nobody saw. Kids in downright dangerous situations and they aren't being watched. When I go to the hockey rink and 80% of the parents aren't watching their kids play. It's a 36 minute game, unless someone is dead or dying or a $20 million dollar merger is going to fall apart, put down the damn phone! 

As I said originally, all things in moderation. 

[Lurky]

42 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

Nobody is saying that interaction has to be ALL the time.

Actually, Fluffy14 said this, a few pages back - which is what the push-back is aimed at:

On 05/07/2017 at 7:06 AM, Fluffy14 said:

I see mums walking with babies in strollers glued to the phone, no communication between mum and babe.  When outside walking you can talk nonstop about trees, bees, birds, cats, the sky, anything really.

[Dutchie]

On 3-7-2017 at 0:25 AM, Minionmayhem said:

because I honestly feel comfort when someone tells me they will pray for me). 

I'm an atheist, my mom in law (jw)an my dad (catholic) are very religious, so is my dads sis, whom i'm close to. I even feel it as a comfort, because if I'm wrong there are plenty of people praying for me. 

[Daisy0322]

Hopefully I can pull this together and be articulate for once...

As far as the screen time for mind goes; my baby is coming next week but I was a full time nanny for 5 years SO I have some input as I was around enough to be a main caregiver. Walks with the stroller, play time at the park when they had other kids to entertain them, etc. that was my sanity time. Little ones usually like a good stroller ride, sometimes they even fall asleep. It was the best time for me to get a little excersise, make phone calls, look at face book, etc. because I felt that they were well entertained and in a pretty safe environment. I saved sensory play and developmental type activities for one on one time at home... which if you only saw me at the park you'd never know that without asking. Also, kids are way over stimulated these days with constantly being entertained by thier adults. They need time to be kids. They need to be creative, have unrestricted time to explore, experience being bored, and learn how to fill thier time productively on their own. Quaility of time is not quantity of time, are some parents on their phones too much ignoring thier kid? Yes, but many you are just seeing during their "break time" and it's not the worst thing in he world if kids learn that sometimes the world doesn't revolve around them. They're an equal part of the family not the family entirely. 

[Carm_88]

@BabyFactoryClosing You described my childhood without the fundie light aspects!  My parents definitely read to me and spent time with my, but there are equal pictures from my childhood of me sitting with the dog in the yard, by myself. The Horror! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My mom usually had her nose in a novel when we were at the park, playground, or the pool. 

Now moms have their noses in a phone. 

Moms have been ignoring their kids since the beginning of time ;-)

[SassyPants]

My mom locked us outside during the hot central CA valley Summers during the 60s-70s. My mom would also lock us in the hot car- windows "cracked" open during the Summer. And she was one of the "good' mothers. 

I always worked PT because I knew that my mother wished that she had-

[SuhrEnity]

Yikes, the judgement from mothers to other mothers is so heartbreaking. Why as women are we so hard on each other to be perfect mothers and wives? Do you think men stand around chastising other men for not being devoted to their children 24/7? Why do we attack each other without knowing each others struggle? That mother with her "nose in the phone" could be on the verge of a breakdown after dealign with a collicky baby alone all day. That time she is taking to herself could be the difference between her maintaining her sanity and doing something in haste out of frustration. Who are we to judge? Also what's with the "It was harder for us back in the day and you don't know how easy you have it". Is it a competition?

[Snarkle Motion]

14 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

I think it's really funny that a general observation of parents while out and about  in the shops, in the parking lots, and parks etc......has turned us all into "busybodies" . I am just old enough to remember a time when there were no phones to compete with and how different it is now. Younger people don't know what that difference looks like.

Shadowolf completely understood my comments about walking outside in the stroller. It is the one place to communicate to your kid where there is no screen competition .......you are in the great outdoors. Enjoy it .

There are legitimate concerns to be had with screen time and it's impact on health. That goes for everyone. To shame moms for this is unfair. It has nothing to do with being a mom. And screens are the new norm, we should be discussing ways to limit the impact on health not talk about how much better life was before.

As @Lurky pointed out, all changes with tech are resisted at first. I think downtown abbey showed this in the first season about how a bunch of people were claiming they didn't trust electricity and light bulbs and were afraid they'd make you sick or they were from the devil or that they looked tacky, etc.

@Shadoewolf the reason not to use tech an hour before bed is that the blue light mimics sunlight. Our circadian rhythm is constantly being set by cues from the sun that reach our eyes. The light from your smartphone is telling your brain that it's sunny out and still daylight so keep me awake. 

[Fluffy14]

On 8/8/2017 at 7:31 AM, SuhrEnity said:

Yikes, the judgement from mothers to other mothers is so heartbreaking.

  I'm up for discussion. I like seeing different point of view. I like be reminded or illuminated to and idea or thought that i would have never thought of myself. If we cannot listen to one another with an open mind we lose out. If we become easily offended we lose out.

I have had to learn the hard way on here if you express a opinion that the masses frown upon  be prepared for a shitstorm. And if you defend your statement the shitstorm becomes bigger. Which to me seems impractical, because the person who is the offender is immediatley slayed by popular down votes. Freejinger is a very interesting place for sure. And you need a THICK skin to stick to your guns. 

Like usual on these threads a person says one thing. Another person becomes offended. Everyone chimes in on the defense of the said offended.  The context becomes blurred and morphs into something completely unintended.These days an observation or an opinion is taken immediately as judgement without realizing the person saying something is obviously pointing to the extreme.

Of course mothers take breaks..of course mothers took smoke breaks, watched soaps and locked the kids outside which was horrible if you had to pee or were hungry and cold,  or in the car which my mother was famous for......but on the other hand mothers can sit on the computer, TV,  youtube, phones, blogs  for hours in a day.  But are these good for kids? Do these practices neglect children ?  Are they harmful to the developing child's psychological development?  Yes it is.  The behaviour is damaging in a lot of ways.  Neglect in any form is never a good thing. 

A  conscientious mother is aware of the time taken away from their kid and does right by the children not to neglect them. Problem is people don't know if your THAT SHITTY mum or a good mum... IT is a very one sided view.  And people will interpret what they see negatively  no matter how awesome you really could be. It's almost like, guilty by association .

But unfortunately there are shitty mothers out there who want to block out their kids needs by engrossing themselves in social media. My mother simply locked the house door. My mother simply just made us stay in the car for hours while visiting boyfriends. A fact confirmed to me by a woman i ran into in my thirties.

Do I see mothers at the mall or in stores ignoring wailing kids whilst on the phone talking to some friend bitching about this boyfriend or this other friend who was just a bitch. Absolutely. My kids in retail can tell you they see this day and day out. ALL DAY LONG. The baby is having a hissy fit. It is 12-2 pm the kid is hungry tired, and in need of a nap. To prolong the browsing experience they throw the kid a phone. I think the difference is nobody could see how shitty my mother was...it was done at home in secret.

 

It's not a competition. The facts are social media is changing the way we behave. It is changing our social interactions with strangers, friends and family.  It is changing us in a way that no other invention has been able to do.  No radios, TV's  so the comparison is not even in the same league.  People are texting while driving and killing other innocent people.....people are recording violent acts and putting it up for the world to see. We are seeing the worst in human nature by the click of a button. 

The problem with social media and a limited version of print....you cannot fully articulate everything you feel or want to express or forget to express.  

What I think would be super cool if  you could take each generation who experienced things different than we have now and have them come back and experience it today. I would love to hear how a mum parented in the 40's put them up into todays standards a give us an overview of every contrast.   There is a whole movement of people removing themselves and find huge satisfaction in the simplicity. Even though it is more difficult in the physical sense.