Adoptive "Mothers" 3: Women Who Don't Deserve Mother's Day

[littlemommy]

I was working in a different state than Kimi, but there were three different kinds of adult "day" programs that our agency clients dealt with. 

One was the typical "sheltered workshop" set up. They contracted out small factory work (like putting small items like screws in baggies that then went into furniture sets, etc) and the workers got paid by the piece. By the time I left social work the workshop had also expanded to include a plant nursery, with the workers growing and tending the plants. This was more successful, since the factory piecework was becoming less frequent (a lot of companies were going overseas).

The other was a job coaching program, usually for younger adults, like Sissy, who the program felt had a real chance of working and living outside of a care facility. They mostly taught janitorial work, giving the person some experience they could list on an application, as well as the skills themselves. They also helped with other things, like how to use the bus to get to the job, etc. This is what I'm hoping Sissy is going to be in.

The last day program was basically adult day care. A lot of disabled adults in a room, coloring or watching a movie. Sometimes they might go out for a community outing. Not the best thing in the world, not the worst...just...an option for people that are never leaving home or another kind of facility, something to do besides spend the day at home. At this point I would even wish Sissy would be in something like this program, just so she wasn't stuck at home under Kimi's supervision all day.

[Lurky]

@littlemommy Would a young adult have to be assessed to join a programme like these, do you think?  I guess the worst case scenario would be that a programme refused Sissy for not having sever enough impairments, but not having anything else for her.  I am absolutely sure she has mental health issues (I mean, who wouldn't, living in this terrifying life, denied any agency, locking in, surrounded by alarms, physically manhandled by her mother's boyfriend, quite on top of any early life experience) and I really, really hope that once she hits 18, she gets support that is on HER side, and wants the best for her. 

 

[littlemommy]

Well, where I was she would definitely have to be assessed. To be in any sort of job program she would have to be rigorously assessed AND be on a waiting list AND get pretty lucky.  For the "adult day care" type place she would just have to meet criteria set forth to qualify for services. For the place I'm thinking of that only meant having a significant, lifelong delay in two or more areas. 

[Pink Muffin]

I´m not that familiar with Kimi and her daughters but what I´m reading here is scary.

I have been thinking that maybe she don´t go to church because someone might catch that things are not allright with the girls, especially with Sissy.

In church the kids dont have to sit for three hours  and listen to someone speaking. The first meeting, sacrament meeting last for an hour followed by a pause for 20 minutes for snacks, after that the children are going to their classes where they are teatched appropriate for their age.

Nursery class is for age 18 months to 2 years, Sunbeam class is for 3 year old, Choose the Right is for ages 4 to 7, Valiant is for ages 8 to 11. When the child turns 12 they go to young women or young men. And finally when they turn 18 they go to womens Relief Society meeting (or priesthood meeting for men) The separate classes are for an hour and after that all kids are together  for an hour for singing, making crafts, eating a snack and short lessons. 

With her special needs Sissy would not appreciate the meeting for Relief Society but she probably could go with youg women for a year or two. I mean the church people do know of her special needs and would be happy to support her. Or she could be helping in Nursery or Sunbeam class since she is used to small children. But I have a feeling that would not suit Kimi.

Sorry for spelling and grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.

 

[Stormy]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

@littlemommy Would a young adult have to be assessed to join a programme like these, do you think?  I guess the worst case scenario would be that a programme refused Sissy for not having sever enough impairments, but not having anything else for her.  I am absolutely sure she has mental health issues (I mean, who wouldn't, living in this terrifying life, denied any agency, locking in, surrounded by alarms, physically manhandled by her mother's boyfriend, quite on top of any early life experience) and I really, really hope that once she hits 18, she gets support that is on HER side, and wants the best for her. 

 

Sissy turned 18 in November, which I don't find a coincidence considering how escalated the situation has gotten in the past few months. I've been hoping that in the event that someone -- a doctor, a therapist, a conscience from a certain firefighter -- didn't intervene, the girls could at least be able to do something themselves once they became of age. Instead, Sissy becomes a legal adult and is subject to this.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Fencing mama told sissy that she will never have any privacy, and wonders why the girl wants to escape?

And she can identify the purpose of the alarms, dismantle them, and use the manuals? She does not have more than mild general delays. She might have more localised problems, but not like that awful woman claims.

It's unsurprising that she isn't interested in toys Kimmie thinks are right for her developmental level. Even kids with developmental delays have interests above their "devlopmental age". Some things just stop being interesting after you've seen them before.

It always scares me when parents of disabled kids blame everything on the kid "not understanding" and never question their own behaviour.

I hope sissy gets out. I hope she isn't being physically abused by the firefighter.

Most of all I hope she either a) has citizenship, or will get support if she gets deported. I would not put it past Kimmie to have not sorted her citizenship.

I wish there was a way to get information to sissy about places she could go if she runs.

[Flossie]

Kimi needs to have all her children removed and a thorough investigation done to see just what's happening in her home.  There are so many red flags waving that I don't know where to begin.  Her children aren't real people to her, they're extensions of Kimi and they've been assigned roles to play.  

She has a Golden Child in Apple, with Jie Jie as the understudy.  If a child did well, said something cute, made Kimi feel good about something, etc., it was Apple.  Sometimes Jie Jie does something good, too, but they all know that Apple is the apple of Kimi's eye.

She has a Scapegoat in Sissy, with a backup Scapegoat in Blossom.  If something goes wrong, blame Sissy.  If Kimi's in a bad mood, it's because Sissy gave her the stinkeye last August or something.  If something gets lost, broken, or stolen; Sissy did it.  She can do it in the middle of a crowded store, from a locked room, or out in the open with no where to hide and Kimi watching her like a hawk.  If Sissy ran away tomorrow and never returned, Kimi would discover that she trained Blossom in her evil ways before she left, and Kimi is still living with her worst enemy.

Read about it here

Spoiler

http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-and-scapegoat/

Golden Child and Scapegoat

It’s very common for Narcissistic Mothers to have a Golden Child and Scapegoat dynamic going on in their family.

What this means is this: one child in the family is the Golden Child, and one or more is the Scapegoat.

The Golden Child, as the name suggests, is the best and most wonderful child – at least in the eyes of the Narcissistic Mother. It seems to be that the Narcissistic Mother picks the Golden Child to be an extension of herself, onto whom she projects all her own supposed wonderfulness.

The Golden Child can do no wrong. She gets given the best of everything – perhaps even apartments or houses bought for her. Her most minor achievements are celebrated and held up for admiration. Her misdemeanours are glossed over and ignored.

The Scapegoat on the other hand is, also as the name suggests, the person on whom all the ills of the family are projected. They can do no right. Their major achievements are dismissed. Any money spent on them is the bare minimum and is spent begrudgingly.

Growing up the Scapegoat can understandably feel very jealous of the Golden Child. This, of course, leads to friction between the children, which suits the Narcissistic Mother. Divide and conquer and all that, and lots of opportunities for triangulation. Indeed, the Golden Child can be encouraged by the Narcissistic Mother,  either overtly or tacitly, to bully the Scapegoat which adds to the friction.

The Scapegoat can be punished for doing something well, because that threatens the narcissist’s narrative that the Scapegoat is all bad. Not overtly punished, because that would also ruin the narrative that it’s all the Scapegoat’s fault. But subtly, sneakily. You had to give up dancing just as you reached a triumphant milestone because of [insert trumped up excuse here] - maybe they supposedly couldn't afford dance classes any longer, or the lift to the dance classes was no longer possible, or they fell out with the dance teacher. Bonus points if the reason for sabotaging the dance classes involved the Golden Child: “Golden Child wants to do dance too, and we can’t afford both, and it’s not fair for you to be the only one.” (And no matter if Golden Child does stuff that you don’t.) Or, “We can’t bring you to dance class any more as Golden Child is taking up karate and her classes are on at that time.”

Or the punishment might be more subtle. Perhaps your dog got given away, ostensibly for a totally unconnected reason, after you won the dance medal. When such things happen enough you’ll learn, consciously or unconsciously, the pattern that bad things happen after you do something good, and you’ll start to sabotage your own successes to protect you from that. (As an aside, be aware that such sabotage patterns will last a whole lifetime until and unless they are pro-actively erased. EFT/Tapping is excellent for identifying and erasing such patterns.)

Or the punishment might be as head-wrecking and subtle as your parents’ reaction. Oh they’ll say the right things. But their expressions and their coolness will tell the real story, that they’re angry at this achievement (again, because it spoils their carefully constructed narrative), and you’ll pick up on that and feel the icy blast of their disapproval.

Likewise you might get rewarded, in a strange way, for failure. You might get the approval of living down to their expectations, and you’ll pick up on that, and even that meagre approval feels good.

The Scapegoat is often what’s called the Identified Patient. This is the one who all the ills of the family are projected onto, and who often will play out those ills.

It’s not surprising that if you were abused and demeaned and treated unfairly all your life that you might have issues such as eating disorders or addiction problems or anger management issues, or depression etc. And so this reinforces the narrative that you’re the wrong one, the bad one, the Black Sheep.

You even believe it yourself, that you’re the problem child, the bad seed. After all, you do have the eating disorder or whatever. That’s undeniable.

They might bring you to therapy to try to get you fixed.

One of two things will happen there. You’ll either end up with a bad therapist who will believe the narrative as presented, and further reinforce your sense of your own badness and failure. Or, you’ll have a good therapist who sees through the lies and tries to treat the real broken dynamic rather than the supposedly broken you. In this case, at the first whiff that there might be something wrong with them, your parents will find some excuse (that no doubt is your fault) and whisk you away from that therapy, and that aborted therapy is another failure of yours.

The scapegoat is truly in a no-win situation. In most cases the abuse is subtle enough that it wouldn't warrant the involvement of social services, and so there is no option but to endure it to adulthood.

I’d go so far as to venture that, if you’re reading this, you were more likely to have been the Scapegoat than the Golden Child.

This is because, contrary to the way it felt growing up, the Scapegoat is actually the lucky one. (I mean relatively lucky, of course. No child of a narcissistic mother can be ever described as being lucky.)

The Golden Child can end up very engulfed by the Narcissistic Mother, and her life can end up being enmeshed in the Narcissistic Mother’s. She may well grow without proper boundaries and proper self-identity. She is likely to remain, either forever or for a long time, as a puppet of the Narcissistic Mother, and if she ever does manage to break free, that process will be infinitely more painful for her than it is for the Scapegoat. 

The Scapegoat on the other hand, is the independent one. She’s the one who’s driven to seek answers and who may well realise about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She’s the one who can break free from the unhealthy dynamics of the family and do her best to create a healthy life and recover from the lies she was told about herself since the day she was born. It's still not easy for her (i.e. for you) of course. Nothing about this journey is easy. But it's doable, and possible. 

She has the Clueless Buffoons in the Medical Establishment that just can't figure out what's wrong with the kids, they are constantly needing Kimi to tell them what's what and to fight them over everything.  They're either not doing enough, or have got the wrong idea of what Kimi wants them to focus on and fix, so Kimi has to oversee everything.  She needs their help, or she wouldn't have anything to do with them.  She pretends they need her in order to do their job even somewhat competently, but I think she simply can't not control everything to do with her kids.

She has the Church playing the role of Good Hearted Friend Who Tries to Help, But Can't Ever Quite Pull it Off.  Sure, Kimi gets help from the Church, but not the kind of help she wants.  She wants to be told she's the best mom ever, Apple is perfect because of Kimi, Sissy is awful, despite the heroic efforts of MoTY Kimi, etc.  Sometimes I think she'd dump them, but it's too much effort to try to find a replacement.

Let's not forget the Firefighter.  He's on call to take care of Sissy when Kimi has had it.  How is he able to manage Sissy?  Who knows?  I doubt it's because he understands Sissy and she likes and trusts him, because Kimi wouldn't want a Sissy-whisperer on hand.  No, I'm left to wonder if he's using Intimidation or actual force.  I don't even know if Kimi is there or if she says "Hey, get her in her room and keep her there for awhile.  I need a break."  I thought about Bribery, but what could he bribe Sissy with that Kimi wouldn't take away as soon as he left?  Is he able to reason with Sissy?  Wouldn't that make Kimi look bad?  Or maybe, Kimi is using Sissy to keep this guy around.  Has he bonded with her kids and Kimi makes up crises for him to rush over and deal with for her?

[FeministShrew]

I wonder if the firefighter intimidates her physically.  I know of a situation where a child was terrified of her mother, not because of physical abuse (though that happened later), but because the woman would get her alone in a room, lock the door, and tower over her, staring her down. The child was always on edge, started cutting herself, & would beg not to go home after weekend visits to her father. It's not too hard to imagine a large man intimidating a frightened and confused teen just by his presence, but by the way it sounds, he might "convince" her with implied threats of violence.
(Don't worry, the little girl I know, and her younger brother, are in the custody of their dad now, and the judge ruled she does not have to see her mom since she's 14. She's been in counselling with a psychologist. The mom is not allowed to see the boy, and DSS is in the process of taking away her parental rights.)

[Antimony]

I went back and read some of Kimi's old posts with the Sissy tag and she frequently talks about how she doesn't feel Sissy can make a plan or do an action without memorizing, suggestion that she has low executive function or executive function issues, but the alarm story blows this out of the water. That's not just a plan, that's a semi-elaborate plan that involves sneakiness (I don't mean this badly, sneaking is a skill sometimes!), forethought, and understanding of the consequences of what Kimi is trying to do with those alarms. Sissy has previously looks for her papers. I'd wager she's pretty dang smart in a lot of ways. 

I'd bet more that Kimi is a poor communicator and impossible to talk to.  And, has anybody noticed her have any adult friends other than the firefighter? I wonder if she's just plain unpleasant all the time. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

Quote

She just doesn't get it that she's an adult now and has to move on to adult things

 

Kimi, you fucking tool, would you say that the second your biological daughter, if you had one, turned 18? "Boom, get out of my house, you're supposed to be an adult now."

Edited May 21, 2017 by LilMissMetaphor
spelled the tool's name wrong...

[FundieFarmer]

In my line of work, when someone requests a team member who is not an appointed care team member multiple times for something, we automatically refuse and send the request someone else to ensure no wrongdoing. We put a note in the patient file too. It prevents inappropriate behavior, drug dealing, and hospital liability.

 

She must have the firefighter's personal number. I would hope a whole station isn't condoning this suspect behavior. They would do much better to send someone else out every time to prevent this situation. The only reason I think they could have to justify this is that they might think he's the only one who could handle her, but then, surely he's not going alone, so someone must see this.

 

Someone knows what's happening and isn't advocating for her, and it makes me sick.

 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Isn't the firefighter her boyfriend?

I was under the impression that she was just calling him personally for help, rather than going via the fire station.

So, less worrying in terms of fucked up dynamic at the station, more worrying in terms of lack of oversight?

I think he's just picking her up and forcing her to do what Kimmie wants.

[Coy Koi]

Yeah, the firefighter is her boyfriend or her sorta-boyfriend or whatever. I'm sure she's just calling him personally. I think she said the fire station is right across the street from her house so apparently he's allowed to leave and go that short distance while he's on duty. I assume he carries a radio and would have to drop everything and return immediately if he got called to an emergency.

[alexandracabot]

1 hour ago, FundieFarmer said:

 

She must have the firefighter's personal number. I would hope a whole station isn't condoning this suspect behavior. They would do much better to send someone else out every time to prevent this situation. The only reason I think they could have to justify this is that they might think he's the only one who could handle her, but then, surely he's not going alone, so someone must see this.

The firefighter is her boyfriend, of course she has his personal number.

[Jellybean]

2 hours ago, Flossie said:

(Snip)

She has the Clueless Buffoons in the Medical Establishment that just can't figure out what's wrong with the kids, they are constantly needing Kimi to tell them what's what and to fight them over everything.  They're either not doing enough, or have got the wrong idea of what Kimi wants them to focus on and fix, so Kimi has to oversee everything.  She needs their help, or she wouldn't have anything to do with them.  She pretends they need her in order to do their job even somewhat competently, but I think she simply can't not control everything to do with her kids.

(Snip)

This sets off all sorts of alarms for me. So many people have pointed out that Sissy's behaviour, as described by Kimi, doesn't match Kimi's descriptions of her intellectual disability, so I won't go over that again.

Is it possible, though, that Kimi has to fight and persuade the medical professionals to do 'the right thing' because Sissy actually doesn't have all the severe disabilities that Kimi says she has? Would it be possible for a parent to manipulate behaviour and give exaggerated or false reports to those treating Sissy and to be believed? Could Sissy have been misdiagnosed and mistreated because of Kimi and her preferred narrative?

Sissy is being monitored and watched 24/7, either directly by Kimi or her firefighter (enforcer), or indirectly with tags and trackers and alarms. She's apparently picking at her skin and nails constantly (which has got to hurt), and is described as spending all her time either plotting or carrying out subversive acts, perhaps in an attempt to gain some kind of control over her situation.

If I were in Sissy's position and Kimi, or someone linked to her, asked me about my hopes and dreams for the future, I wouldn't say anything either. Sissy seems to see Kimi as the one who makes her world so utterly bleak. Sharing dreams with someone like that is just asking for a cruel punishment and for Kimi to do everything in her power to destroy those dreams. If that is the case here, I think that by not sharing hopes and dreams, Sissy shows a great deal of understanding, caution and capability for abstract thought and self-identity separate from others. 

Once Kimi has shared her narrative about Sissy, I suspect it will colour the way everyone views her. All her actions can be interpreted through the lens of Kimi, which distorts and twists everything.

[Stormy]

4 hours ago, Flossie said:

Kimi needs to have all her children removed and a thorough investigation done to see just what's happening in her home.  There are so many red flags waving that I don't know where to begin.  Her children aren't real people to her, they're extensions of Kimi and they've been assigned roles to play.  

(snipped)

First and foremost, I want to like this post fifty times; it seems we're soul sisters in putting lengthy, analytic posts up in Adoptive "Mothers" threads. You rule!

In regards to the Firefighter, he's probably a bit kooky himself to not only have maintained a romantic relationship with Kimi for several years, but to have also involved himself in the gritty unpleasantries of her dysfunctional family life. Essentially adopting the role of caregiver to a dependent (or four) is no small feat. If he truly loves Kimi enough to commit himself to running over whenever Sissy's having a meltdown, he very well may have Kimi-levels of insanity. This is considering that I highly doubt he's maintaining the relationship because he has bond with the children (not that I don't hope he has; at least in the fatherly sense, anyway).

Lastly, who in this family's life is going to step up and call authorities? It seems that Kimi has successfully maintained an arms-length distance from the types of people they see regularly (church members, doctors, therapists...), so that's likely why they seem to be flying under the radar. She's also capable of being very charming; I recall in the very first thread that many FJers recognized her as the nice lady who sold them cloth diaper patterns online and they were shocked to learn that she was like this. Fortunately, I do suspect that her narcissism will eventually be her downfall; just because someone's anti-social and manipulative doesn't mean they're necessarily clever or that they can't get complacent. She's so caught up in her own delusions perceptions that she doesn't realize how she's coming off to the vast majority of individuals who come across her blog. It's going to catch up to her one day, and hopefully it won't be in the form of something terrible happening involving one of her daughters.

Edited May 22, 2017 by choralcrusader8613
quoting whole post

[heidi]

There were so many red flags in her latest post that I was gobsmacked reading it. It's clear that she doesn't have a clue how she actually comes across. 

[Mirla]

... snip ...
If I were in Sissy's position and Kimi, or someone linked to her, asked me about my hopes and dreams for the future, I wouldn't say anything either. Sissy seems to see Kimi as the one who makes her world so utterly bleak. Sharing dreams with someone like that is just asking for a cruel punishment and for Kimi to do everything in her power to destroy those dreams.
... snip ...

+ 100. I have an in-law that embodies the philosophy, "anything you say can and will be used against you," and whose conversational style is best described as "interrogation." I have gotten very good at answering very probing, personal questions with the kind of feel-good non-answers that a politician would love. I will not tell that in-law or any of that in-law's allies anything about my hopes and dreams, because I'm smarter than that. I hope Sissy is smarter than that too.

Just because Sissy doesn't tell Kimmi her hopes and dreams doesn't mean she doesn't have them. And even if Sissy doesn't have any hopes and dreams, it probably says more about Sissy's mental health and limited knowledge of the opportunities available to her than her intellectual abilities.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

So, there's this thing in the disabled community called the burrito test. If you are an adult, and you can't get up in the middle of the night to microwave a burrito, you're in an institution. Even if it is technically your own home, even if it looks nothing like a traditional institution.

There's maybe a bit of a grey area for teenagers living with their parents, or not waking sleeping babies, but generally, it's a good sign that someone has an inappropriate level of control over an adult. Any adult. Including adults with severe cognitive and developmental disabilities.

This level of control over an adult would not be justified unless sissy was in a prison, or a secure mental health unit.

To add alarm systems and passport confiscation? That's another level of disturbing.

On another note, is it possible that dear Kimmie might be falling foul of human trafficking laws? Bringing a minor into the US, confiscating her passport, imprisoning her, and at one point using her as free labour in a childcare business? That's an offence that might well be worth reporting.

[keepercjr]

Yes the firehouse is literally across the street from K.  The firehouse is on the corner of a major street and you can see her house from that street.  I drive by there once a month or so as I have family in the area.

Poor Sissy will never catch a break in that house.  I think the adult program will be a huge blessing to her.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, Jellybean said:

Would it be possible for a parent to manipulate behaviour and give exaggerated or false reports to those treating Sissy and to be believed? Could Sissy have been misdiagnosed and mistreated because of Kimi and her preferred narrative?

Yes, but usually only temporarily. Parental reports are certainly one factor in diagnosis and treatment, but it's not the only factor. The professionals involved do generally catch on pretty quickly when parental reports about behavior don't match up with anything that anyone else is observing. 

[littlemommy]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

Yes, but usually only temporarily. Parental reports are certainly one factor in diagnosis and treatment, but it's not the only factor. The professionals involved do generally catch on pretty quickly when parental reports about behavior don't match up with anything that anyone else is observing. 

I agree, to a point. I was part of a few intake teams and I would say 50% of it was medical records and 45% family testimony. The person themself was typically considered an unreliable narrator unless what they were saying was confirmed by someone else. I can perfectly picture an intake for Sissy, where they would say something like "Can you bathe yourself?", her answering "Yes", and Kimi correcting "No, because you do xyz wrong and blah blah blah blah". As the intake person I would have marked yes for "claimed" and no for "observed". 

Needless to say, the person coming in was either evaluated waaaay below their actual abilities or way above. Part of it is that there really isn't a good tool for measuring something like that, and also no unbiased way for the person or their family to fill it out.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I know that labels and family testimony can be a very powerful distortion, but I think if sissy went somewhere residential they'd figure out that she's pretty bright quite quickly.

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I'm both really worried about sissy, and wondering if what Kimi is doing is illegal. I'm pretty sure locking an adult up is false imprisonment, but would anything actually be done about it? 

She's not currently being made to work, as Kimi has shut her daycare, but she was at one point.

Lots of the people on here do awful things to their children, trapping them with bounded choices and cult thinking, but the alarms and locks may well put Kimi into a place of actual illegality.

Imprisoning an adult who says she wants to leave and is exhibiting distress crosses a lot of lines, both morally and legally.

I think authorities should probably be contacted. If she's still a chinese citizen, then maybe the chinese embassy? 

Or I might just be overthinking this. I don't know. I'm worried. 

[FundieFarmer]

Ah, ok. Thanks for setting me straight. I had to google to find the blog as I'm new to Kimmy/Sissy. I still think the firefighter's role is messed up and inappropriate, and that somebody knows what's going on in that house and hasn't said something to help Sissy.