Lori Alexander 19: Hating Birth Control, Consistency, and Logic

[Pammy]

56 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Absolutely...I have a BA in Biblical Studies from Liberty University...and, in ALL my classes, to defend the meaning of a particular passage of scripture, especially in the Old Testament, there were numerous factors involved in the interpretation. Literary genre, historical context, application to the 21st century, understanding that history was recorded MUCH differently in ancient times than in modern times. My professors demanded quite rigorous research for all the freaking papers I wrote. The issue of "submission" was my final NT class paper. Yeah...that took me a month to research. I can tell you that my conclusions were the complete opposite of the bullshit Lori spews. But, I did what she would never do...RESEARCH. 

Also, what Lori and many others don't understand is the revolutionary description of the empty tomb. The gospels state that WOMEN found the tomb empty. Hell, Peter and crew were hiding and shitting their pants. The WOMEN went back and told the apostles in the upper room. Jesus appeared to the women FIRST. That is HUGE considering the time and culture. 

::::::steps off soapbox:::::

 

 

To be clear, the idea I was describing is the "bastardized idea" that "flows from" a view of inerrancy that is not the mainstream evangelical one. You are both quite right in your descriptions of the more sensible (and more common) views on inerrancy.

[onemama]

Lori asks: "is there a verse that states "thou shalt not fake sexual intimacy?" 

First, if you're having to fake sexual intimacy, your marriage is in serious trouble.  To answer your question, there are several verses that come to mind. 

1. Thou shalt not lie. Leviticus 19

2. Put off falsehood and speak the truth in love. Ephesians 4

3. Love...... rejoices with the truth.  1 Corinthians 13

4. Don't lie to each other. Colossians 3

I'm sure you can find more if you pull out a concordance.  Faking is lying. Lying is sin.

 

[onemama]

Another gem from the "pull no punches submission" post.

Quote

Problem is that most women have been taught and believe that females are more spiritual and Godly than their husbands. This allows them the arrogance to decide what, when, and how their husbands are being Godly and correcting their husbands.

The arrogance! you poor men, to have your wife usurp your position of authority and actually, you know, maybe speak the truth to you every once in a while. 

Quote

For the women here that said they want their husbands to correct them. I have heard women say this, but I have never ever seen a woman take it with humility. My wife literally screams in tantrum when I make her accountable and later apologizes. Does that count? No, due to the fact that although I forgive her, the rebellion is still very strong in her heart and her first reaction is to be disrespectful, unkind, cruel and divisive.

Tell me, Jeff, how do you react to your wife correcting you and holding you accountable?  You can't take it. How about you try doing unto her as you would have her do unto you? 

Quote

I am in a similar situation to many christian men including all of your husbands. Cleansing your wife has become a burden so great that doing so you live hell on earth, but not doing so it is hell on earth and abdicating your role is what Adam did in the garden. He listened to his wife. I barely listen to my wife any more and the bad times are when I do listen.

First, do you realize that you just told all these super-submissive wives that their husbands are living hell on earth, with the wives that are trying to out-submit each other?  

Second, put that scrubber down and start loving her for a change. That's what you're told to do.

Third, you are told to give honor to your wife, not to ignore her and complain about how difficult life with her is, especially when you admit to spending so much time trying to clean her up. How about you let God take care of cleaning her up and you focus on loving her instead?  I tell you, nowhere in the Bible does it say that you have to "cleanse" your wife, but it does have something to say about men who don't honor their wives. If I recall correctly, their prayers don't get answered.   

Quote

To modern women “live with your wife with understanding” means agreeing with her.

I guess I'm not a modern woman because, to me, for my husband to live with me "with understanding" doesn't mean that he agrees with me, only that he understands that I'm a woman and he's a man. 

[polecat]

48 minutes ago, onemama said:

Lori asks: "is there a verse that states "thou shalt not fake sexual intimacy?" 

First, if you're having to fake sexual intimacy, your marriage is in serious trouble.  To answer your question, there are several verses that come to mind. 

1. Thou shalt not lie. Leviticus 19

2. Put off falsehood and speak the truth in love. Ephesians 4

3. Love...... rejoices with the truth.  1 Corinthians 13

4. Don't lie to each other. Colossians 3

I'm sure you can find more if you pull out a concordance.  Faking is lying. Lying is sin.

 

 

Oh, I could add a verse or two to this list, although they're of a slightly different sort: 

Song of Solomon, which begins with, "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes." That doesn't sound much like a woman who doesn't enjoy her man or who is faking it.

Nor do verses: 

4:16 "Let my lover come into his garden and taste its delicious fruits." Hmmm.

Or 2: 16, "My beloved is mine and I am his. He feasts in a field of lilies." Doesn't sound much like 10-minutes-and-lube-faking-it.

And 6:2 "My love has gone down to his garden, to the beds of spices, to graze and to gather lilies." Maybe coconut oil? Potato soup? New counters?

Yeah, those all definitely sound like a woman who is completely and totally faking it and hating her sex life (with her not-husband lover, cough cough). 

 

 

[EowynW]

Joyce is here on FJ, isn't she? I think so. Anyway, if you are here, Joyce. I saw what you did on the birthday post. I still think it's odd that she's never written something like that about the others. 

[foreign fundie]

I know Lori is not used to seeking middle ground, but it seems there may be some of that between 'only having sex when you want it' and 'faking it'. I would call it 'lovingly and voluntarily going along with an unsollicited but respectful request for intimacy, out of a real desire to see the man you love enjoy himself'

[Koala]

Lori's reply to Joyce:

Quote

 his wife asked all of his family to write a letter to him for his 30th so I asked if I could make it into a blog post! Every single one of our children is wonderful and precious to us.

This makes more sense.  If Lori writes a sweet birthday letter to one of her children, it has 3 elements:

1) Someone else asked her to write the letter.  She did not come up with the idea on her own.

(As a side note, I hate being asked to write birthday/anniversary letters.  I think it's better when things like that are spontaneous.)

2) She uses the opportunity to garner attention from her readers.  Why couldn't she have just given her son the letter?  The same reason she shared Emily's letter to her.  Attention.  The desire to be perceived as a good mother.  

3) She uses the opportunity to take a NOT so subtle dig at her other children (they cared about me, but you cared about me more) *gag*

[EowynW]

Oh i didn't know Emily wrote her a letter. 

[feministxtian]

3 hours ago, onemama said:

I am in a similar situation to many christian men including all of your husbands. Cleansing your wife has become a burden so great that doing so you live hell on earth, but not doing so it is hell on earth and abdicating your role is what Adam did in the garden. He listened to his wife. I barely listen to my wife any more and the bad times are when I do listen.

The minute the husband tells me that living with me is "hell on earth" is the day he can pack his shit and get the hell out. 

[Joyce]

Hi, EowynW! I thought the comment would be deleted or that Lori will link her posts about her other children in her old blog. Anyway, the tribute would have been perfect without the parenthetical comment about her other children. 

[Koala]

The way Lori responds to her readers, says so much about her.  As someone mentioned earlier, a man can tell her that his wife doesn't iron his shirts, and she falls all over herself telling him how sorry she is.  When it's a woman, tough...well...

Reader:

Quote

 I love/hate reading your posts. Lol.... I am challenged so many times. But this is one area I am deeply struggling with. My husband and I have not always followed after God's heart. I started walking with the Lord and my husband has recently started having that heart change for God. Of course we are still learning. However my husband does have an anger issue. Although I can defiantly say that he has gotten better, I still struggle with feeling uncomfortable with him. He has never put his hands on me in anger, but I have been called every name in the book and have had items broken and holes in the walls. He struggles with real apologies. He has said sorry, but such and such is the reason. I have said I forgave him and I really do mean it and have prayed for God to help me to completely let it go. I come from a long line of abuse and molestation and I am sure that is all playing a role, but I literally get sick to my stomach when I think he is going to reach for me. He knows how I feel and I know he has his needs and as his wife that is what I am suppose to fulfil buy how can I do it without the tears and anxiety? I really want to be able to want to be with my husband. I want our marriage to work. Am I suppose to just push past the anxiety, tears, and stomach upsetness? I am at such a loss and I know my husband is too.

Mentor Lori replies with this flip response:

Quote

Pray that the Lord will give you a deep love and desire for your husband. Listen to Michael Pearl teach Romans at The Door and learn who you are in Christ and how He has freed you from your past. You can find healing in Him for He came to set the captives free!

Lori tells her to pray and listen to Michael Pearl.  She doesn't sympathize with her, acknowledge what she's been through, or express any concern over the fact that her husband is calling her names and breaking things in anger.  

How is that mentoring?  

I honestly don't believe Lori is capable of feeling anything for anyone.  

[feministxtian]

My hubby had the same anger issues. Know what stopped them? I called the cops on him and he spent 3 weeks in jail. Told him if he did it again I'd have his ass locked up again, only he'd be fkn homeless when he got out. Straightened his little ass right out! He found out that temper tantrums don't work so well anymore. I'm happy to say it's been about 4 years and not a damn tantrum to date. He did it b/c I let him get away with it. Shoulda kicked his ass the first time. 

[Hisey]

28 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

My hubby had the same anger issues. Know what stopped them? I called the cops on him and he spent 3 weeks in jail. Told him if he did it again I'd have his ass locked up again, only he'd be fkn homeless when he got out. Straightened his little ass right out! He found out that temper tantrums don't work so well anymore. I'm happy to say it's been about 4 years and not a damn tantrum to date. He did it b/c I let him get away with it. Shoulda kicked his ass the first time. 

IMO, men do these things because they have issues, often serious ones. They don't do them because their wives let them get away with it, Don't blame yourself, in other words.

OTOH, he stopped it because, as you say, you kicked his ass. Good for you!

[Hisey]

When Ken refers to his son as a "partner", I think that's because they do some orthodontic consulting work together. Remember, Steven is listed as a partner in Alexander and Sons.

I am kind of astonished by Emily's need for such frequent attentions from a professional photographer. So far we've seen wedding and newborn photos. There were probably engagement and pregnancy photos too. All of them show a staged Emily looking super happy while staring at a ring, at her hubby, at her baby. Most show a  posed Steven or a posed baby. 

I clicked through to the photographer's website. There was a whole post full of Emily/Steven/Gracie. Emily is decked to the nines in two different dresses (one for the park, one for the beach.), jewelry and makeup. (The beach dress is far from modest, as it is so sheer you can see her legs. Your MIL would not approve, Em! ). Baby Gracie is dressed immaculately. Steven, I have to laugh, is in rumpled khakis and looks like he didn't make much effort. 

I mean, you  fly out and visit your inlaws for a few days, and THAT'S how you choose to spend your time? Having a beach photo shoot? I doubt Lori and Ken paid for these pics, since there is no sign of them in any of the photos. Very little sign of Emily's sis, too, whose role was apparently just as a babysitter. How loving. "No, we don't  need any pics of you, sis. We need another picture of Steven tickling me while I laugh with my face tilted towards the camera and my mouth open."

I don't know, it seems so narcisstic, vain, distasteful. 

[feministxtian]

46 minutes ago, Hisey said:

MO, men do these things because they have issues, often serious ones. They don't do them because their wives let them get away with it, Don't blame yourself, in other words.

OTOH, he stopped it because, as you say, you kicked his ass. Good for you!

If I had followed my first instinct and treated him like I would a 2 year old having a tantrum, it would have only happened once. I tried talking to him...right up until he reached MY limit. Then he woke up in a jail cell wondering what the fuck he had done (yes, he had a drinking problem too). I'm happy to say that in the ensuing years, he's sober, has his shit together, and knows better than to EVER pull that shit again. Oh...and I learned a lesson too...I don't take ANY shit from him at all. It's amazing what years of abuse will do to you and you end up putting up with all kinds of shit because of it. Not anymore y'all...not anymore. 

[EowynW]

38 minutes ago, Hisey said:

When Ken refers to his son as a "partner", I think that's because they do some orthodontic consulting work together. Remember, Steven is listed as a partner in Alexander and Sons.

I am kind of astonished by Emily's need for such frequent attentions from a professional photographer. So far we've seen wedding and newborn photos. There were probably engagement and pregnancy photos too. All of them show a staged Emily looking super happy while staring at a ring, at her hubby, at her baby. Most show a  posed Steven or a posed baby. 

I clicked through to the photographer's website. There was a whole post full of Emily/Steven/Gracie. Emily is decked to the nines in two different dresses (one for the park, one for the beach.), jewelry and makeup. (The beach dress is far from modest, as it is so sheer you can see her legs. Your MIL would not approve, Em! ). Baby Gracie is dressed immaculately. Steven, I have to laugh, is in rumpled khakis and looks like he didn't make much effort. 

I mean, you  fly out and visit your inlaws for a few days, and THAT'S how you choose to spend your time? Having a beach photo shoot? I doubt Lori and Ken paid for these pics, since there is no sign of them in any of the photos. Very little sign of Emily's sis, too, whose role was apparently just as a babysitter. How loving. "No, we don't  need any pics of you, sis. We need another picture of Steven tickling me while I laugh with my face tilted towards the camera and my mouth open."

I don't know, it seems so narcisstic, vain, distasteful. 

Is that the one who has the public Instagram? 

[usmcmom]

Quote

Baby Gracie is dressed immaculately. Steven, I have to laugh, is in rumpled khakis and looks like he didn't make much effort. 

I think the fact that Steven is all rumpled says a lot. My husband is not one to worry about fashion at all, but for a photo shoot he will always make an effort, usually asking me to just choose an outfit for him. 

I wonder if Steven is already fed up with Emily's seemingly constant need to be photographed and just shows up in his Saturday work-around-the-house clothes.  Plus, the kind of shoot we see in this post is usually quite expensive. Maybe he gets a little concerned about having a huge photography budget to think about each month. 

[onemama]

I don't know why, all that posed photography makes me feel uncomfortable. It's too intimate. 

All this flounting what she has and having to link to the photographer who took the pictures is making Lori's blog look like something from that movie "The Joneses", about that family that wasn't a family at all but were a team of people paid to be living advertisers of expensive stuff. Lori keeps linking to expensive items as if advertising for them.  Lori's tastes are expensive and she doesn't seem to understand just how expensive and out of reach her life is for most of her readers.  

Off topic, but Emily should direct that photographer to her MIL's blog. According to Lori and Debi, she's leading a blasphemous life being a married woman and traveling around taking pictures of people.  She belongs at home, not posting pictures of women in short dresses and tight jeans.  To think she's the wife of a pastor! Good grief! Lori, go down there and set her straight!

[Coy Koi]

3 hours ago, Hisey said:

IMO, men do these things because they have issues, often serious ones. They don't do them because their wives let them get away with it, Don't blame yourself, in other words.

I think men abusing their partners very rarely stops just because the partner refuses to tolerate it. I think it NEVER stops because she keeps tolerating it and by doing so, gets him to realize the error of his ways. My abusive ex sure did work hard to try to convince me that it would work that way though! He would absolutely love Lori's "teaching". Most abusers would.

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Coy Koi said:

I think men abusing their partners very rarely stops just because the partner refuses to tolerate it. I think it NEVER stops because she keeps tolerating it and by doing so, gets him to realize the error of his ways. My abusive ex sure did work hard to try to convince me that it would work that way though! He would absolutely love Lori's "teaching". Most abusers would.

As I said, what woke my husband up was waking up in a jail cell. He was blackout drunk and didn't even know what had happened. He spent 3 weeks in jail, 7 months on probation, was required to go to AA, Domestic Violence classes and see a therapist both individually and group. He couldn't play games with any of them because if he was found to be "uncooperative" he was looking at 2-5 years in prison. Scared him shitless. It was honestly the best thing that could have happened to him. Since then he RARELY falls into old patterns...and when he does I call him out. He also has accountability at our church. He is part of a men's group...and they take accountability very seriously. So, he is consciously choosing to keep himself on track...knowing what I know of his past, I am amazed that he has been able to really turn himself around. 

[Coy Koi]

5 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

As I said, what woke my husband up was waking up in a jail cell. He was blackout drunk and didn't even know what had happened. He spent 3 weeks in jail, 7 months on probation, was required to go to AA, Domestic Violence classes and see a therapist both individually and group. He couldn't play games with any of them because if he was found to be "uncooperative" he was looking at 2-5 years in prison. Scared him shitless. It was honestly the best thing that could have happened to him. Since then he RARELY falls into old patterns...and when he does I call him out. He also has accountability at our church. He is part of a men's group...and they take accountability very seriously. So, he is consciously choosing to keep himself on track...knowing what I know of his past, I am amazed that he has been able to really turn himself around. 

I'm so happy for you that your husband changed his ways! Also very glad that he was and is held accountable by the justice system and your church. When I say I think this is rare, I really mean "rare" and not "impossible". It obviously can happen. And the best part is that it sounds like if it HADN'T happened in your case, you were prepared to protect yourself by walking away. It's great that you didn't end up having to do that, but it's awesome that you were willing to if necessary. I still believe that for most of us, it is necessary.

[feministxtian]

4 minutes ago, Coy Koi said:

I'm so happy for you that your husband changed his ways! Also very glad that he was and is held accountable by the justice system and your church. When I say I think this is rare, I really mean "rare" and not "impossible". It obviously can happen. And the best part is that it sounds like if it HADN'T happened in your case, you were prepared to protect yourself by walking away. It's great that you didn't end up having to do that, but it's awesome that you were willing to if necessary. I still believe that for most of us, it is necessary.

I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone what they should do. I did what was right for me...mostly because, as I said, I knew the backstory and I knew the whys of the whats. However, I have an X that is and was irredeemable...to this day. He never thought he was doing anything wrong by treating me and the kids like shit. 20 years later, he STILL refers to me as "that bitch". With my husband, there were MANY different factors at play...and pathological asshole wasn't one of them. To be honest, he should be in prison, or on the streets or dead by now...he has survived some horrendous mental, physical and sexual abuse. His stepfather literally threw him against walls...

So...now you all know...

[KDA]

7 hours ago, feministxtian said:

My hubby had the same anger issues. Know what stopped them? I called the cops on him and he spent 3 weeks in jail. Told him if he did it again I'd have his ass locked up again, only he'd be fkn homeless when he got out. Straightened his little ass right out! He found out that temper tantrums don't work so well anymore. I'm happy to say it's been about 4 years and not a damn tantrum to date. He did it b/c I let him get away with it. Shoulda kicked his ass the first time. 

That's pretty much what worked for me, too = the Police. Lori's advice did not work. It made the abuse worse - it went from "anger issues" to full-on domestic violence. My husband didn't go to jail, but the Police were involved. Getting on with my life, and showing him I didn't need him, and we were coping just fine without him, was what spurred him to sort himself out. 

Lori needs to tell that woman to get herself out now, and get her and her kids (if she has any) to a safe place. Simply 'praying' is not going to cut it. I know - I've been there.

[foreign fundie]

I really, really wish these poor women (or their creepy husbands) would not find Lori's blog. And I really, really hope they will look further and find some real advise and sympathy.

The Bible says that teachers will be judged more strictly. Lori should watch out, lest one of these women or their children suffers real damage because of her. Teaching should not be a nice hobby for grumpy old woman to fill their boring days. It is a serious vocation!

James 3:1

Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

[polecat]

9 hours ago, Koala said:

The way Lori responds to her readers, says so much about her.  As someone mentioned earlier, a man can tell her that his wife doesn't iron his shirts, and she falls all over herself telling him how sorry she is.  When it's a woman, tough...well...

Reader:

Mentor Lori replies with this flip response:

Lori tells her to pray and listen to Michael Pearl.  She doesn't sympathize with her, acknowledge what she's been through, or express any concern over the fact that her husband is calling her names and breaking things in anger.  

How is that mentoring?  

I honestly don't believe Lori is capable of feeling anything for anyone.  

 

The fact that her husband knows that she has a history of abuse and still terrorizes her by throwing things at her, yelling at her, name calling and breaking things (all of which are also pretty abusive, in my book) tells me that he could give a shit less about helping her work through any trauma she's still experiencing. This is a case for a counselor and legitimate therapy if ever there was one. Lori needs to stop dabbling. You know, if she wanted to have a pretty little blog where she shared "big salad" recipes and "cleaning" tips and little Bible lessons even, more power to her. But what she's doing is going to get someone killed one day.