Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[Carm_88]

Also, I think it's important to remember that Kelly and Gil are trying to rebrand themselves as a larger than normal "Christian" family. They sneakily keep all of their IBLP things far away from their show. They can say for Teevee or the Internets that completely are for one thing, reality may be a completely different thing. Just because Kelly has a blog about it, doesn't mean it's true. @VelociRapture has pointed out many times that Kelly has changed Bill Gothard's birthday cake at Chad and Erin's wedding to the groom's cake. They are conniving and manipulative with a sugary sweet surface. 

[OyToTheVey]

5 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I even know immigrants or immigrant's children who critisize immigration. Or who are racists about people of their native country.

I'm an immigrant. Does that mean I can't criticize something I see that's wrong in my old country? I don't understand your point tbh. I'm a proud American but English isn't my first language and I still follow the news and goings on there. And I'm not racist against my own people but there are qualities in former Soviets that drive me up the wall. It's embedded in a lot of us. There's no escaping it.  That's not racism. That's a right to point out flaws. 100 years of Communism will do that to people.

[faraway]

From reading some of Whitney's older instagram posts I have a feeling that she carried a lot of guilt. Basically she was so grateful Zach "took her in" even though she was so undeserving. She was still practically a kid at the time, what terrible things could she possibly have done? I have a feeling the Bates carry this "we're perfect" image and make everyone else who will subscribe to it feel bad and undeserving BUT they can be saved if they follow their guidelines. It's quite possible they encouraged the relationship to the Bio-parents to happen again. What I'm concerned about is that Whitney might somehow feel that her unusual biography is her own fault. These people are great at victim blaming and I could see that happening in a context like this.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

Yup. From what I understand, her bio parents lost custody of her when she was about 12. Whitney was in foster care until getting adopted sometime in her late teens. It seems she was close to her adoptive family at one point (her adoptive father is the one that walked her down the aisle, and as far as I know her bio parents were not at her wedding), but by the time Bradley was born she had regained contact with her bio parents and her adoptive parents had seemingly disappeared. No one really knows what happened there.

Do you remember where you read all that? I don't doubt you, but I haven't found anything about Whit being in foster care or being legally adopted by the Owens family. I've found next to nothing actually. Mostly just a bunch of confused claims on another site that her bio parents (the Perkins) died in a car crash - it seems those posters confused the information because it seems the Owens family lost a daughter in a car crash. 

Only other information I've found is in this thread:

I don't remember if this poster was able to provide a link or evidence though. So don't take it as absolute proof of anything.

That said, I hope this was all a best case scenario type thing - that Whit made the decision to reconnect with her bio parents herself, that they've been nothing by loving towards her and her family, and that it was a respectful and mutual distancing between Whit and the Owenses.

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

They are conniving and manipulative with a sugary sweet surface. 

This is a prefect description of them. Kelly is not opposed to bending the truth when it comes to protecting their image. I think it was a year or so before she came up with the wide eyed innocent excuse that they didn't have a single idea of who they were using when creating their "patriot room". This would have been more believable if she had given the response immediately instead of pulling the pictures and waiting to respond until they were in full rebrand mode, The natural response to discovering you accidentally created a shrine to slavery would be to respond with horror at the mistake and thank people for letting you know. Plus, no way they created an entire room glorifying the Old South without realizing it. 

[VineHeart137]

30 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Do you remember where you read all that? I don't doubt you, but I haven't found anything about Whit being in foster care or being legally adopted by the Owens family. I've found next to nothing actually. Mostly just a bunch of confused claims on another site that her bio parents (the Perkins) died in a car crash - it seems those posters confused the information because it seems the Owens family lost a daughter in a car crash. 

On the Bates family website (not Lily and Ellie's blog, the old one that Kelly used to respond to comments on) it was stated that the Owenses did adopt Whitney. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it, but if it's allowed then I can. I could be wrong about the ages (I'm pretty sure I got that info from FJ so it could be incorrect) but between the time the Perkinses lost custody and the Owenses adopted her, she was most likely in foster care. Now that doesn't necessarily mean she was bounced from home to home like a lot of foster kids are, maybe the Owenses were the first family to foster her and she was fortunate and they decided to keep her. 

I also hope that there wasn't some big fallout between Whitney and the Owenses, or that her bio parents and/or the Bateses encouraged her to cut them off. Like you said, I hope it was a mutual and respectful distancing!

[eleanora3]

Just now, VineHeart137 said:

On the Bates family website (not Lily and Ellie's blog, the old one that Kelly used to respond to comments on) it was stated that the Owenses did adopt Whitney. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it, but if it's allowed then I can. I could be wrong about the ages (I'm pretty sure I got that info from FJ so it could be incorrect) but between the time the Perkinses lost custody and the Owenses adopted her, she was most likely in foster care. Now that doesn't necessarily mean she was bounced from home to home like a lot of foster kids are, maybe the Owenses were the first family to foster her and she was fortunate and they decided to keep her. 

I also hope that there wasn't some big fallout between Whitney and the Owenses, or that her bio parents and/or the Bateses encouraged her to cut them off. Like you said, I hope it was a mutual and respectful distancing!

Someone on FJ once said that Kelly encouraged Whitney to reconcile with her biological parents. She did, but her biological parents didn't want her to have anything to do with the Owenses and so Whitney complied. I have no idea how the poster got that information or if it's accurate though.

[justmy2cents]

13 minutes ago, eleanora3 said:

Someone on FJ once said that Kelly encouraged Whitney to reconcile with her biological parents. She did, but her biological parents didn't want her to have anything to do with the Owenses and so Whitney complied. I have no idea how the poster got that information or if it's accurate though.

I believe the FJ poster either met the Owens mom IRL or had contact through Instagram.

[VineHeart137]

32 minutes ago, eleanora3 said:

Someone on FJ once said that Kelly encouraged Whitney to reconcile with her biological parents. She did, but her biological parents didn't want her to have anything to do with the Owenses and so Whitney complied. I have no idea how the poster got that information or if it's accurate though.

I believe that's the post Velocirapture linked above, but like she said, the poster never provided any proof that what s/he was saying was true.

[eleanora3]

6 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

I believe that's the post Velocirapture linked above, but like she said, the poster never provided any proof that what s/he was saying was true.

Oh that's exactly it, I didn't see @VelociRapture had posted it. 

[VelociRapture]

8 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

I believe that's the post Velocirapture linked above, but like she said, the poster never provided any proof that what s/he was saying was true.

You're correct.

I want to believe that poster, but the lack of evidence gives me pause. I do completely understand why she may have wanted to avoid sharing screenshots though - it was a private conversation between the two of them through social media. It would have been a breach of trust and could have doxed them at the same time. 

And thank you for taking the time to respond. I wasn't sure if you had found something or if you were making an educated guess about what may have happened. You may be remembering the posts on previously.tv - that one incorrectly states her parents died, but also claims she was 12 and went through Foster Care before being adopted. 

Kelly stated on their blog she had been adopted when they announced their courtship. However, nothing was ever said about whether it was an official adoption or a different living arrangement - like if the Owenses had offered to help out or something.

[VineHeart137]

I'm sorry, I feel slow. I'm a little confused. Kelly said Whitney was adopted. To me that means... Well, that she was adopted, not just living with them. I have friends who are adopted and when they talk about it they just say "I was adopted." But you're saying that because Kelly didn't specify that it was an "official" or "legal" adoption, that maybe Whitney was never really adopted? 

(I typed "adopted" enough times that the word is starting to look weird to me lol).

[Joyfully Available]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's weird to understand. I know racist people who are nice to co-workers/neighbours of another race and they're sincere. They say "This person is nice because he's not like the other *put any race here* people". Or they say "I like this person because he dresses and behaves like me and not like people in his country". And so on. Disgusting, I know.

I even know immigrants or immigrant's children who critisize immigration. Or who are racists about people of their native country.

I  went to college in South Carolina and it was not uncommon at all to see black students carrying around koozies (or wearing belts, shorts, t's) emblazoned with confederate flags or wearing Titleist hats with fish hooks on the bill.  For those who don't know, in certain circles, fish hooks on bills are a symbols of white supremacy and/or love for the old south.

Shocking for me for sure! It was a display of something I definitely did not understand as a West Virginia native who, at the time, was probably overly sensitive of race relations because of my home state.  I just chalked it up to a pride thing in the deeper south.

I guess I should add that your comment brought back some of those memories and to add to the previous comments regarding the confederate flag and how people interpret it.  

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

I'm sorry, I feel slow. I'm a little confused. Kelly said Whitney was adopted. To me that means... Well, that she was adopted, not just living with them. I have friends who are adopted and when they talk about it they just say "I was adopted." But you're saying that because Kelly didn't specify that it was an "official" or "legal" adoption, that maybe Whitney was never really adopted? 

(I typed "adopted" enough times that the word is starting to look weird to me lol).

What I'm saying is that I don't trust a lot of what Kelly says and I question everything she says. Whitney isn't talking (as is her right), so we really only have Kelly's word to go on. I don't think she's lying about this, but anything is possible. 

I have family who were adopted. The subject doesn't come up much (because family is family), but we do say they're adopted when we need to. So I get the confusion. I just really don't trust Kelly I guess. 

ETA: Just to be clear, I'm not currently huddled in a bunker wearing a tin foil hat or anything. I know I sound like it a little above, but I swear I'm not. 

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm an immigrant. Does that mean I can't criticize something I see that's wrong in my old country? I don't understand your point tbh. I'm a proud American but English isn't my first language and I still follow the news and goings on there. And I'm not racist against my own people but there are qualities in former Soviets that drive me up the wall. It's embedded in a lot of us. There's no escaping it.  That's not racism. That's a right to point out flaws. 100 years of Communism will do that to people.

I'm obviously not @Melissa1977, but I thought what she said was very clear. Basically, many people are real hypocrites. Such as people who are immigrants themselves (or the kids of immigrants) going all "immigrants are taking away our jobs!!!!!!" on new immigrants. Nowhere did Melissa say you can't criticize something about your home country, so not sure where you're getting this from.

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm an immigrant. Does that mean I can't criticize something I see that's wrong in my old country? I don't understand your point tbh. I'm a proud American but English isn't my first language and I still follow the news and goings on there. And I'm not racist against my own people but there are qualities in former Soviets that drive me up the wall. It's embedded in a lot of us. There's no escaping it.  That's not racism. That's a right to point out flaws. 100 years of Communism will do that to people.

I'm sorry because maybe my post wasn't clear enough. I'm not saying inmigrants can't critizise their countries, of course they can. What I find hypocrite is that inmigrants critizise inmigration itself or try to difficult other inmigrants rights.

In fact I have relatives whose parents had to leave our country due to a civil war. But those children, who were born years after, only because other country saved their parents life, fight now against refugee's rights. I'm ashamed and I'm sure their parents would also be if they were alive to see.

[Carm_88]

I don't know how I feel about matching with your baby, but to each their own. It feels odd to me. Whitney looks very nice though and Kaci Lynn is cute. 

[VelociRapture]

16 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I don't know how I feel about matching with your baby, but to each their own. It feels odd to me. Whitney looks very nice though and Kaci Lynn is cute. 

I probably won't do that with my daughter, but I'm also not planning to do matching sibling outfits if I have a second baby. I'm too lazy for that. I plan to be that mom who tosses them in whatever happens to be clean and appropriate for the occasion. 

Whitney and Kaci do look pretty adorable though (matching siblings usually do too.)

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Maybe @NotALoserLikeYoucan provide proof if they ever return?

FWIW, I believed it. (She was responding to a post of mine in the link above) I ended up seeing something about abuse on a comment section of an article once before too. Obviously, I have no idea if that person is an Alice or not, but it made sense. 

 

[Mela99]

I still think Kaci is too cute to be constantly stuffed in a bow and jewelry...

[ophelia]

Whitney looks stunning. But I'm not into that whole matching outfit thing.

 

[SnazzyNazzy]

If she REALLY wanted to match her daughter, she would have put one of those god forsaken, hideous bows in her own hair.

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, SnazzyNazzy said:

If she REALLY wanted to match her daughter, she would have put one of those god forsaken, hideous bows in her own hair.

I was wondering where Whitney's bow was too!  

[SassyPants]

My daughter and her 3YO daughter will often have matching colors or shirts. For example, my daughter wore a solid purple dress at Mother's Day brunch and C. wore a flowery dress with a background of the same color, and at Disney my daughter wore a black and white striped tank top and jeans and C. wore a black and white pin striped tee and jean shorts. C. likes to match, so mama obliges. I never did the matching thing.

[actuallyjessica]

The bows get just as much talk as pants, haha. Often the people who have an issue with the pants talk are the ones complaining about the bows. I think it's hilarious