Jana's Future 4 - Family Ties

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Just yuck, didn't think  about that.   The absolute creepiness of this family has no bounds.

 I've lowered the tone...I'm sorry...I'll show myself out

[AreYouThereGothard?]

Regarding Jana being boring: I will liken this notion to another quality reality show: The Bachelor. While I have admittedly tuned out of the bachelor/ette and guests are too "boring", they're either 1) actually boring or 2) probably normal, just not exciting enough for television. Let's be real, normal life/sanity aren't that interesting for tv viewers, but it's probably pretty healthy. Jana just might be a case of "still waters run deep" (and hopefully far far away into a larger, less limiting body of water). 

Regarding Jana flying the coop: this is my two cents, but I think Jana knows too much. She lived prairie dress crunchy curls longer than almost everybody, has had more years of exposure to the outside world, and knows the pitfalls of watching her other siblings courtships/marriages. This could be me being me, but if I was taught that I was supposed to be a homemaker who is meant to rear a crap ton of children, I would wonder why Dr. Sarver the obgyn and Amy don't have to. I mentioned in another post if Dr. Sarver would be somewhat of a "bad influence" because she almost certainly has a secular education, is married with kids, and her family (presumably) respects her and doesn't see her as not fulfilling her role as a godly woman. Isn't that taunting with bait almost? "Here's an intelligent,  educated, independent woman whom we trust, but you can't have any of this. Go make tater tots." 

While this family shatters almost all of my hopes and dreams, I hope Jana finds her voice and realizes she can do so much more and that people are rooting for her 

[Carm_88]

18 hours ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

@Lurker which would be more heartening if the man Jana describes didn't so much resemble John David 

Well...better than Jim Bob, I guess. Hey, hey, hey and all that. 

[Unicorn]

I definitely agree she knows too much, and I would assume her sisters' marriages were cautionary to her.  She's not going to marry just to leave, because she knows how to navigate her life and she knows she's trusted by her family.  

Whether staying for her younger siblings is conscious or subconscious, or a mixture of both (which is what I lean towards), I do think that's a factor because she is a genuinely helpful member of her family.

Growing up in the Bible Belt myself, and still residing there, I saw my family and friends marry young to usually wind up in loveless marriages and/or divorce.  I had a failed engagement early on.  I'll spare you the details, but I blamed myself.  In my early twenties, I saw those getting married as superior to me.  In my late twenties, I saw them as settling and on the road to regret.  I wouldn't be surprised if Jana understands this, although her sisters are more or less in honeymoon stages right now so that has got to make sadness worse than it would be otherwise.

Trust is won in fundie homes like it's won in prison.  My parents attempted to blanket-train me and I apparently never crawled off the blanket to begin with.  I believe that, because I know I had to be taught the concept of initiative as a child.  I had some developmental delay that actually worked to my advantage in this situation.  (My husband was the same way, but while I was taught initiative which was just explaining the expectation of initiative so I would do chores without being asked, he was taught submission more than initiative to a greater extent than I was.  He is visibly disabled is the only explanation as to why.)

Getting back to the prison reference, successful prison escapes are often those rare people who just walk out the door because they're on desk duty with access to everything.  They were model prisoners from the beginning.  I won't speculate on every detail of Jana's life story, but we have in common being the trusted oldest daughter and that's why I think any escape will be the equivalent of the model prisoner just walking out the door (probably in the form of marriage to someone rugged who won't control her, but possibly as a single woman).

[Bad Wolf]

I don't think it's creepy that she might want a guy like her twin. She hasn't had any opportunity to date, so she has to look closer to home for a role model. She doesn't seem to want a preacher like her sisters, or an arrogant ass hole like her brother. I hope she finds what she wants and is happy. As long as JB keeps his nasty little fingers out of her life.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

To be fair, Jana didn't have much to look at in terms of male role models within her life.

There's her father who is a raging narcissist, her oldest brother the child molester, Gothard the sexual predator. It makes sense she'd idealise someone like her simple but hard working brother as the "ideal" type of man. Her extremely sheltered upbringing has limited her opportunities to actually get to know different types of guys.

And her sister's partners......well, there's Dewreck who uses his headship role to insist on living in a dangerous third world country. Bin the smug Manchild who thinks he knows everything. Don't think either of them are that appealing...

[MadeItOut]

Yea gods Inquisitr  - by all means continue to pedal your usually *so well* researched 'material', but my word - do you not have a single woman on staff? ...seriously, did no-one at any point in putting this 'article' together mention how chauvinistic, sexist and offensive modern, equalitist readers would find your couching the piece in terms of whether SHE is HIS type?! 

For crying out loud - way to channel your inner JimBob Inquisitor. ...with pieces like that batting about, no wonder she stays near the devil she knows.

[HereticHick]

Is this Jana behind Esther in this orchestra photo? If so, at least she got released from babysitting duties for a bit to play music.

 

[Four is Enough]

Sure looks like Jana! I hope she is well practiced!

 

[Carm_88]

If it's not Jana, she has a female twin.  

[AreYouThereGothard?]

I don't think there's anything "Flowers in the Attic" about her liking qualities in men that JD happens to exemplify. I've heard so many girls say they want a guy like their dad or has similar qualities, but that certainly doesn't mean something fishy's going on. if anything, I think she sees a partnership of matched values and respect. Didn't Jim Bob say once that "the only difference between Jana and John David is that Jana has longer hair"? They work well together, I wouldn't be surprised if they have the "twin connection", and probably have some bond being the oldest still at home. Plus, isn't part of the family mentality that your siblings are your best friends? I think it would be more likely that he's regarded as a brother and good friend wrather than something creepy. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Eh, I don't think Jana describing JD id any creepier than the "boys marry their mother" saying. 

[jqlgoblue]

The reality is that we can project anything onto Jana that we want because we know so little about her. As with most things, there is probably some truth to both sides. For example, I think it's highly unlikely that Jana would leave fundie Christianity. She may have things she doesn't like about the cult but she is so steeped in the koolaid and has a lot of friendships, so I think her leaving entirely is unlikely. That said, I do think it is possible that she is staying around the TTH and not marrying out of obligation to her siblings (even if it is just sacrificing her cult-determined future by not courting). I have said this before but I think she is too busy/emotionally invested in the parenting that Michelle and JB aren't doing to have the emotional availability to court. However, to add to the other side of the argument, I sense that JB/Michelle might not feel like she has submitted enough to marry. I think Jinger was in the same camp and then she did her whole YouTube I was a sinner thing with Ben and wham she was with Jeremy ... though I do think Jinger was eventually 'broken'. Jana is hiding her true feelings but may not have totally submitted yet. 

This is an aside, but we always thought my mother's cousin was a bachelor. Then his mother, who he lived with, dies when he is 50-ish. It turns out he has had a girlfriend for many years that no one knew about and he goes on to move in with the gf shortly there after! That personality type is not one I understand but this could be what Jana is doing (w/o the secret bf)... I just don't think her finally leaving the TTH will result in an about face or a tell all. I would bet on someone doing a tell all at some point, likely from a fundie light perspective... but it won't be for awhile and I don't want to guess who will be the one to do it.

[Incognito22]

4 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Is this Jana behind Esther in this orchestra photo? If so, at least she got released from babysitting duties for a bit to play music.

 

Well she is a concert pianist.

[calimojo]

Oh my, I forgot about the Concert Pianist comment.  Poor Jana,  that had to have been embarrassing to her when she saw that had been posted.  My mom was one of those that would really build up my accomplishments to something more than they are.  Even now,  she does this.  I am a nurse and but I don't do direct care anymore, but work in a case management type role.  But when my mom was recently describing what I do to her friends, she told them I was in "Hospital Administration".  True, I do have some administrative responsibilities, but I am not a hospital administrator.  When I pointed out to her that her description was  wrong she just said "Well they don't need to know any differently".  So in that one sentence she also got the chance to let me know that she is unimpressed with the truth of my job and would prefer her friends be told an inflated description.   

 

Anyway,  If Jana has an ounce of sense, she must have known that the description of her as a concert pianist was over the top by a long shot.  I mean, Jana may indeed be an incredible pianist, I have no idea, but playing at church, or some Big Sandy Gatherings does not make you a concert Pianist. 

I think Jana is reserved and guarded and we don't have a clue what her true personality is like.  The only thing that I think we can say with some certainty, is that she doesn't really seem to like being filmed, and she seems to be a hard worker.  The rest is a big question mark, and you know what?  Good for her.  I am glad that she has managed to protect herself from having every aspect of her life exploited. 

I get the impression that Jana is close with Michelle.  I don't get the impression that there are years of resentment simmering under the surface.  About the only time I have sensed her being less than happy with her parents was in that Last big family interview episode when Michelle droned on about modest dressing and how women are responsible for inciting lustful feelings in men that they are just too weak to resist.   And maybe after Josie had her seizure and JB and M were gone.  When they got home, I felt like they totally ignored Jana, who did her best to care for Josie and was clearly frightened, by seeing the seizure.   I sort of had the impression that Jana was sad to not get any recognition for taking good care of Josie, but that could just have been me projecting, because I thought they were rude and ignored her. 

 

I really don't see Jana writing a tell all, at least not for many years.  I think she wants a quiet life outside of the spotlight.  Perhaps if she were really strapped for cash, or found out that JB had ripped off the kids from their deserved part of the Duggar money from all the years of filming,  she may do something, but it doesn't seem to be her nature to be publicly outraged.  I think if she rebels,  it will be a quiet and dignified rebellion, where she will just go about living life as she wants, but doesn't engage in a big confrontation. 

 

I would like to see Jeremy screw over JB.  I would like for that 50 page questionnaire of his to be full of fluff and that he totally plans to go in a different direction.  But as we learn a bit more about him and his message I think he is more like JB than we thought, just with a bit more worldly polish. 

 

[Jinder Roles]

On 4/29/2017 at 4:11 PM, Unicorn said:

 

Trust is won in fundie homes like it's won in prison.  

Getting back to the prison reference, successful prison escapes are often those rare people who just walk out the door because they're on desk duty with access to everything.  They were model prisoners from the beginning.  I won't speculate on every detail of Jana's life story, but we have in common being the trusted oldest daughter and that's why I think any escape will be the equivalent of the model prisoner just walking out the door (probably in the form of marriage to someone rugged who won't control her, but possibly as a single woman).

Fair point but the thing about fundie cults is even if you are a 'model prisoner' usually still don't have access to the resources enabling you to leave (unless you are in a position of power) 

The truth is we know nothing about Jana. If she's happy, if she earnestly believes what she's been taught or if she's wants to get out. I am inclined to believe - as oldest daughter who has always had most of the responsibilities thrown onto her - that her ideas about her family/future/current state are nuanced (or as nuanced as she's allowed to be) 

Honestly, we just don't know. 

[Percy]

I also believe that any money earned goes into a communal pot and not to individuals.  Jana possibly gets an allowance.  I don't believe she would have enough money to leave, even if she wanted to.

I agree with the post previously that said Jana living with Grand Ma Mary would be a good outcome.

[Gillyweed]

13 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Fair point but the thing about fundie cults is even if you are a 'model prisoner' usually still don't have access to the resources enabling you to leave (unless you are in a position of power) 

The truth is we know nothing about Jana. If she's happy, if she earnestly believes what she's been taught or if she's wants to get out. I am inclined to believe - as oldest daughter who has always had most of the responsibilities thrown onto her - that her ideas about her family/future/current state are nuanced (or as nuanced as she's allowed to be) 

Honestly, we just don't know. 

This is why I've always been confused when people say Jana is an amazing person who is x,y, and z. We know almost nothing about her. For all we know, she isn't courting because she's dull or rude. 

[CatchThatCow]

I think she's beautiful and most of her siblings seem to genuinely love her. i used to think she did find "the one" and JB said no. Now I'm thinking that she doesn't want to be someone's ticket to a TV gig. I just get that vibe from derrick, Ben, and Jeremy.  They love their wives but being on TV gives them an instant platform to preach or whatever. 

[Kittikatz]

On 2017-4-26 at 10:21 PM, PainfullyAware said:

I'm not really convinced someone could mentally stick with being in Jana's position but secretly doubt everything- for what reason? You would leave because otherwise the cognitive dissonance would be too much! She may be skeptical of certain things, or the extremes they take their beliefs to, but I believe she accepts the general duggar worldview, even if only to rationalize the limitations she lives with.

I'm not saying anything about Jana's beliefs - she is such a blank slate that it's a stretch to interpret much of anything about her deeper beliefs or actual self, beyond she seems hard working, quiet, caring and may have useful or vaguely interesting hobbies - but speaking from the personal experience of being raised in a highly restrictive environment, it is possible for someone who is quiet and well behaved to fly under the radar, even if their beliefs are highly divergent from the people around them.  I certainly did, but I looked the part, and acted my role flawlessly, so nobody had any reason to criticize or scrutinise me. Meanwhile, the authority figures were busy stamping out obvious signs of rebellion, and I got away with experiencing a whole lot of normal on the QT. Nobody ever asked what I thought about things or what I believed, they just assumed, based on apparently compliant behaviour, that I was on side.

The funny thing was, I was never an inwardly good or incurious kid, I just realised early on that the best way for me to survive was to stay low on the radar and sneak. And I was good at it. One of my earliest memories - I was probably about three - was of getting out of bed at night (forbidden) and wandering the house touching all the breakable things I wasn't allowed to touch during the day (baby proofing wasn't a thing in my community - the baby was taught never to do certain things, and the learned it in a way that makes blanket training seem like a minor correction - and I so wanted to feel what those precious objects were to touch). As I got older I learned to lie, quickly, consistently and well, and to remember the lies. I was never caught out. None of this struck me as being in a state of congitive dissonance. I knew what I believed. I knew what they believed. I had an end game that I was playing to. And I got there by doing whatever was necessary. It was like my whole growing up was a weird state of stealth warfare.

That's why I will never count these kidults as fully brainwashed until they make it clear by their own independent words and actions that they're chugging the kool-aid (as some have). I just don't think we know enough about most of them to see if they're running a game. Only time will tell, and if some just appear to diverge slowly and fade quietly into obscurity we may never know.

[KelseyAnn]

I honestly think Jessa is just bidding her time right now, just waiting until she has enough money or her own tv show so that she can run off to Jinger in Laredo either with or without Ben. I know Jessa is my pet fundie, but I do think she is the most cunning of the children and I honestly don't think she even likes her parents much less half her siblings. Do I think she'll become some ultra liberated hippy? No. But I do think she has the potential for being liberated to a small degree. 

[Thumper]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:24 PM, Kittikatz said:

I'm not saying anything about Jana's beliefs - she is such a blank slate that it's a stretch to interpret much of anything about her deeper beliefs or actual self, beyond she seems hard working, quiet, caring and may have useful or vaguely interesting hobbies ....

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Jana sent to reform indoctrination camp more than anyone else? To me that is a red flag there's a lot going with her on the inside. She strikes me as the smartest of the girls so it would make sense for her to learn to keep her mouth shut in that messed up world.

She seems very different from her sisters (in having real interests, what she admires in a man, etc). I think the only person in the family she really trusts fully is her twin (the only other hard working, responsible adult in the family). John David is probably the only person she talks to frankly and is wisely guarded around everyone else.

Josh isn't half as smart as her, is much lazier than her and look at what he was capable of hiding from his entire family. I think it would be naive to think Josh was the only "wild seed" Duggar. I am not even saying Jana is necessarily non-fundie at heart (though we can never really know) but I highly doubt she buys into every aspect of the lifestyle hook, line and sinker after all she has seen, been through. Her parents see their kids as trained monkeys instead of people so she knows what to perform to survive. 

I am happy she and JD have each other in that goofy world. I am also happy they weren't just married off super young like their brother Josh (we have all seen how well that is turning out). 

[Nikedagain?]

On 4/29/2017 at 7:08 PM, LawsonBatesEgo said:

To be fair, Jana didn't have much to look at in terms of male role models within her life.

There's her father who is a raging narcissist, her oldest brother the child molester, Gothard the sexual predator. It makes sense she'd idealise someone like her simple but hard working brother as the "ideal" type of man. Her extremely sheltered upbringing has limited her opportunities to actually get to know different types of guys.

And her sister's partners......well, there's Dewreck who uses his headship role to insist on living in a dangerous third world country. Bin the smug Manchild who thinks he knows everything. Don't think either of them are that appealing...

Exactly.

And bottom line:  good old, uncomplicated, tell it like it is, dependable John David hasn't let her down. 

She can't say that about her father or older brother. 

Patriarchy and whatnot. 

[AnnaRuk09]

@Thumper I don't know how many times she went but I do know that she's gone different times as a volunteer. Correct me if I'm wrong but others have gone to volunteer as well like Jill. 

The reason I personally think she seems "different" is her age. Joy will get married at 19, Jessa was 21, Jinger and Jill 23. Jana's currently 27 going on 28 and she's never been in a courtship as it's been said by family/ friends. Throughout these many single years, she's developed in a way the others weren't able to experience. So it makes sense she's been able to explore different areas of interest to keep her busy and occupied while she keeps waiting.

 

[singsingsing]

Journey to the Heart is not a 'reform' camp where bad kids are sent to be straightened out. This is what I know about Jana:

She did JTTH many times, along with some of the more conservative fundie girls in ATI circles.

She was a bridesmaid in Priscilla Keller's wedding.

She was the only non- Bates or Keilen woman in Michael Bates's wedding party.

She's apparently the disciplinarian in her family.

I don't understand why anyone thinks she's particularly intelligent? Except that she's quiet, hasn't courted yet and thus hasn't had the spotlight on her, and doesn't have social media, so she's basically a blank slate that FJers can project all their hopes and dreams onto.

Honestly, my impression of Jana is that she's not an exceptionally intelligent person, that she's very conservative, that she believes in the principles of ATI and participates willingly in the cult, perhaps more so than any of her sisters, and that she hasn't gotten married yet because she simply hasn't met/been pursued by anyone she wants to marry.