James Dobson wants people to shoot trans women in the bathroom

[Pammy]

I imagine it's become quite an issue for certain cis women who appear "masculine" to do their business lately.

I'm sorry that anyone might encounter public doubt of their declared gender -- but a trans woman might at least be emotionally prepared for the experience? She might already know that her gender and her looks aren't quite aligned?

A cis woman might be blindsided by the implication that she doesn't look definitively like a woman. It could be quite a deep wound to be publicly challenged on that basis.

[PennySycamore]

@Georgiana and @feministxtian,  on the way to the Women's March in DC, we stopped at this truck stop for a potty and snack break.  We did have some men along, but it was mostly women in our 5 or so busses.  Some of us women ended up going to one of the men's rooms.  That men's room was full of pink pussy hats!

 

[louisa05]

44 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@Georgiana and @feministxtian,  on the way to the Women's March in DC, we stopped at this truck stop for a potty and snack break.  We did have some men along, but it was mostly women in our 5 or so busses.  Some of us women ended up going to one of the men's rooms.  That men's room was full of pink pussy hats!

 

I went on a couple of camping trips/graduate courses with large groups of teachers with a lot of travel. Way more women than men in the group. We had a bathroom routine whenever we stopped: as soon as the men were done, they would make sure the men's room was cleared out and the rest of the women waiting would go in the men's room. Never had a problem with it anywhere and it made stops much faster. 

[Gobsmacked]

Louisa05

The same happens at the Edinburgh Festival during show intervals. Last guy out guards the door of the porta loos whilst the girls run in. Saves missing the first five minutes of the second half !!

[apandaaries]

3 hours ago, Pammy said:

I imagine it's become quite an issue for certain cis women who appear "masculine" to do their business lately.

I'm sorry that anyone might encounter public doubt of their declared gender -- but a trans woman might at least be emotionally prepared for the experience? She might already know that her gender and her looks aren't quite aligned?

A cis woman might be blindsided by the implication that she doesn't look definitively like a woman. It could be quite a deep wound to be publicly challenged on that basis.

Given that over 40% of transgender people attempt suicide at some point, I don't think there's any kind of emotional preparation for these kinds of experiences, especially when people are threatening to kill them for using the bathroom it looks like they should be using.  Dobson is literally calling for their death by vigilante justice, as a matter of masculine pride.  This is drenched in gender roles and a violent desire to uphold them.

There aren't rankings for these kinds of painful moments, but I don't think this is the time to privilege the experiences of cis women over those of transpeople, whose lives are genuinely at risk (look at that stats of violence against transgender folk).  This is all bullshit, but let's focus on the people who are truly being targeted thus far.  

[Petronella]

I loathe Dobson.

My memory of first loathing him is much less significant than the horrifying quote that started this thread, but it's important to me. It was on a "Focus on the Family" insert in our church program on a Sunday morning.

Part of the insert was an advice column answered by Dobson (try not to vomit as you imagine it). An engaged woman had written in to ask how she and her fiance can more deeply get to know each other as they prepare for marriage.

I was a newlywed, and lots of thoughts popped into my mind immediately, the most prominent of which was something like, "Choose activities where you interact, rather than one or both of you passively watching." (Obviously one can *also* do watching things, like sharing a film or one watching the other play a sport, but it's a good idea--after marriage too!--to balance those with activities where you're both doing, and where you affect each other.) Anyway, that popped into my head, and I was interested in what the published advice might be, to maybe learn something new.

Well, the published advice sucked.

Dobson recited a bunch of stuff about "how men are" and "how women are" and his advice was basically to memorize gender roles. She would know her fiance better, according to him, by reading advice about "men."

People like Dobson don't see **anyone** as individuals. Everyone is lumped into their role. Transpeople are (according to Dobson) dangerous perverts. Women are lesser then men. Men are on top, but even they, to him, are imprisoned by their assigned roles. How to get to know one? Not by observing, interacting, asking. No, to Dobson, you get to know a man--any and every man--by memorizing a simplistic list of gender expectations. If you point out to Dobson that individual people vary, he won't believe you. Any variance from his expectations is put down to the observed person suppressing their true nature, that Dobson "knows" is really there, deep down. (Which comes back to the original post. Dobson has decided that he knows how transpeople are; no amount of actual facts will deter him from his chosen belief.)

I hate Dobson. I hate Cosmopolitan magazine too, for the same reason. They have very different stances on sex, but they are of one mind when it comes to gender. "Men" are like this; "women" are like this. No exceptions allowed. Boo, hiss.

It's just such a damn prison. The men get the best cells in it, but they're still cells.

[DinglyDoll]

Dobson is an ignorant, dangerous asshat.

[feministxtian]

I was thinking of this topic this afternoon...I was waiting to get cash out of the ATM and was just making general chit-chat while in line. There had been a robbery at another ATM locally..,so we were talking about that and how glad we were that there was an officer there. There was one person in line that honestly, I wasn't sure if they were a he or a she...sort of androgynous...I thought to myself...why the hell should I care what bathroom they use? I mean, if ya gotta go, ya gotta go. Then I thought about the people (Dobson, et. al.) who would try to harm this lovely person over a fkn bathroom. It really pissed me off even more...and I was in a shitty mood to begin with. 

[seraaa]

@Petronella That's such a great point. Nobody really wins when these gender roles are so rigidly enforced. Everyone is potentially stifled.

At least Cosmo is occasionally hilarious in its ridiculousness

 

[FloraKitty35]

Dobson probably has a stash of transwoman porno that he gets off to, hypocritical asshole.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

13 hours ago, smittykins said:

Women's urinals did exist at one time:

http://jezebel.com/5884315/how-come-womens-urinals-havent-caught-on

But Dobson is still a sexist asshole.

Personally I am a fan of squat toilets in public places, quite common here and as a woman I very much prefer them, much more hygienic imho. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I'm fairly certain I've been in a women's room with transwomen. but I've never paid enough attention to figure out who might be trans.

And you know why?  Because I don't care.  If you identify as a woman, then you're in the women's room. End of story.  

The women's bathroom is a place where all women can pee in the peace and privacy of a locked stall.  All women. Not just the women raging fundie weirdos like James Dobson decree fit some ridiculous list of gender stereotypes.

I asked Mr. Dress recently if he's ever been in the men's room with a transman.  He said probably, but he didn't care enough to check it out.  He's the type of guy who likes a locked stall for his business.  I checked with several other male friends and they all said the  same thing. And they too prefer a stall to the urinal.

I think the only people obsessed by who's got the peen and who's got the va jay jay in the bathrooms are wacko fundies like Dobson.

[Pammy]

10 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Given that over 40% of transgender people attempt suicide at some point, I don't think there's any kind of emotional preparation for these kinds of experiences, especially when people are threatening to kill them for using the bathroom it looks like they should be using.  Dobson is literally calling for their death by vigilante justice, as a matter of masculine pride.  This is drenched in gender roles and a violent desire to uphold them.

There aren't rankings for these kinds of painful moments, but I don't think this is the time to privilege the experiences of cis women over those of transpeople, whose lives are genuinely at risk (look at that stats of violence against transgender folk).  This is all bullshit, but let's focus on the people who are truly being targeted thus far.  

I think you've got this right. Thanks for the wise correction.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

I've accidentally walked into a men's bathroom..and I've been in places where men have accidentally walked into or been jokingly pushed into a woman's bathroom..

 

And a simple "sorry my bad" or "Those bleepity bleeps" solved the problem.

 

I've also been to outdoor music festivals where I've guarded the door of one of the men's latrine trucks simply because there not enough women's provided and I wasn't prepared to wait much longer.

 

 

 

[Bad Wolf]

So let me get this straight. I go into a public restroom, and Mr. Wolf follows me holding a gun, just in case. This makes the other women feel oh so much safer. He then sees someone he identifies as transgender and shoots them. All the women are in awe of my manly husband and thank him profusely, and promise him baked goods.

Is that how it goes?

[Seahorse Wrangler]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

So let me get this straight. I go into a public restroom, and Mr. Wolf follows me holding a gun, just in case. This makes the other women feel oh so much safer. He then sees someone he identifies as transgender and shoots them. All the women are in awe of my manly husband and thank him profusely, and promise him baked goods.

Is that how it goes?

Unless some-one else's even more super-manly husband got there first and shots him because ....God...Jebus...

[lawfulevil]

So let me get this straight. Things that are supposed to make me feel threatened in the bathroom:

Another person in a different, locked, individual stall, who potentially has different genitals than I do. I don't know if they do or not, because I'm never going to see their genitals and they're never going to see mine, but it's possible that they don't match, and for some reason this should terrify me.

Things that are supposed to make me feel safer:

The possibility that a stranger will kick in the bathroom door and open fire because they think someone looks insufficiently feminine for their taste. I should in no way be concerned about the potential for an armed maniac to murder me or someone in my immediate vicinity while I am half naked and sitting down.

I'm trying to think of a way that this could make less sense to me, but I actually think that if the logic were any more wrongheaded and bizarre it would become surrealism and their guns would be melting.

[Jigsaw3]

Last time I went to my favourite gay bar, the washroom with the lady's picture on the door was effectively unisex (the men's was a men's.) Dobson would have been horrified. But the stalls were private and locked. I was not assaulted or threatened by all the men in there. Everyone minded their own business at the sinks (well, I did get a couple of  suggestions on my hair and makeup, but I consider that a bonus.)

My undergrad residence had co-ed bathrooms, as did my grad school's residences. No one was ever assaulted or threatened by brushing their teeth next to an unrelated person of another gender.

This whole bathroom thing is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Last time I went to my favourite gay bar, the washroom with the lady's picture on the door was effectively unisex (the men's was a men's.) Dobson would have been horrified. But the stalls were private and locked. I was not assaulted or threatened by all the men in there. Everyone minded their own business at the sinks (well, I did get a couple of  suggestions on my hair and makeup, but I consider that a bonus.)

My undergrad residence had co-ed bathrooms, as did my grad school's residences. No one was ever assaulted or threatened by brushing their teeth next to an unrelated person of another gender.

This whole bathroom thing is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

My undergrad dorm had open locker room style showers on every floor except the basement. Thankfully, it was not co-ed. That probably would have been a little much for most college students to handle. 

The dorm I lived in my freshman year had changed one bathroom from men's to women's when they reconfigured floors (it was co-ed but with separate floors for men and women--mind you this was eons ago). So the women's bathroom closest to my room had urinals. If men were on our floor, everyone would just make sure the bathroom was empty then let them in to use it by themselves. No one ever died from it. 

[Anonymousguest]

6 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

 

My undergrad residence had co-ed bathrooms, as did my grad school's residences. No one was ever assaulted or threatened by brushing their teeth next to an unrelated person of another gender.

This whole bathroom thing is SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

I had actually forgotten this until just now! Mine was too! My dorm was all female, but we could have overnight male visitors. They were allowed to use the main bathroom on each hall. My now husband stayed over frequently. We were just supposed to yell to everyone that there was a guy in there. It wasn't the gang kind of shower, but individual stalls. 

[Gobsmacked]

The nurses home I lived in during training in the late 70s was the same! Overnight guests smuggled in past the home warden! Guys would go to showers wearing their girlfriends dressing gowns!! No one cared, they just yelled a warning. No one fainted or swooned that I can remember !!

[RosyDaisy]

A homophobe with a gun is supposed to decide who looks feminine enough to be in the ladies bathroom? What could possibly go wrong there?

[purjolok84]

On 8 April 2017 at 4:49 PM, lawfulevil said:

So let me get this straight. Things that are supposed to make me feel threatened in the bathroom:

Another person in a different, locked, individual stall, who potentially has different genitals than I do. I don't know if they do or not, because I'm never going to see their genitals and they're never going to see mine, but it's possible that they don't match, and for some reason this should terrify me.

Things that are supposed to make me feel safer:

The possibility that a stranger will kick in the bathroom door and open fire because they think someone looks insufficiently feminine for their taste. I should in no way be concerned about the potential for an armed maniac to murder me or someone in my immediate vicinity while I am half naked and sitting down.

I'm trying to think of a way that this could make less sense to me, but I actually think that if the logic were any more wrongheaded and bizarre it would become surrealism and their guns would be melting.

I think Dobson's crossed the 'logic' line well into surrealism by now that he could almost be out on the other side.

 

On 7 April 2017 at 11:20 PM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Personally I am a fan of squat toilets in public places, quite common here and as a woman I very much prefer them, much more hygienic imho. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

The first time I came across these was a school trip to France and the majority of the girls in my group would not use them. But there were no other toilets at the location where we were so some girls spent the day looking a bit traumatised. Personally I like them - the ones I've used in France and Japan are hygienic, easy to use and clean, and I always have a good story to impress people at home with (because apparently using a squat toilet is like entering the Chamber of Secrets but as a Muggle with no dignity).

[formergothardite]

My concerns in a public bathroom are:

~is it cleanish?

~is there toilet paper?
~will the stall door lock and stay closed?

Trans women are not on my radar.

Last time I was at a hospital and needed to go to the bathroom, the thought of finding a Jill and David Rodrigues in the bathroom did flit across my mind. 

[Flossie]

Re: Squat Toilet

What happens if one happens to have explosive diarrhea, or their urine stream comes out with force and splashes?  Is there toilet paper available to clean yourself and the toilet?