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Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath 2


DaisyD

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On 9/10/2017 at 2:26 PM, Palimpsest said:

I read this 3 times and I don't think you are being sarcastic.  Interesting that he was honest.  

A couple of us here once discussed how every single disgraced priest, minister, pastor, etc. (regardless of denomination) we have known either ended up in prison or as a used car salesman.  Our theory was that the job doesn't need references and that selling cars uses the same skills as selling religion. ;)

One thing I'm interested in, and I don't think he's said anywhere is:  when exactly did Rinder decide Scientology was a load of bunk?  While he was still the enforcer or when he was in the Hole after pissing off Miscavige?  

Rinder certainly seems to have completely rejected the whole thing these days.  Unlike the couple in that episode who are still believers in the Tech.   Also unlike Marty Rathbun who was a squirrel (believed in and practiced the Tech outside the "Church.")

 Sadly, it really looks as though Rathbun has gone back.

Nope, no sarcasm meant whatsoever.  But the observation of failed ministers turning to selling used cars is something I had never considered and did make me laugh.  Good point!  But there are still the ones like Jim Baker and his food buckets, and Jimmy Swaggart with his own friggin network.  :mad:

It was more than strange to have Mike come out of a dealership (you know how they do when you're looking at a car).  I was very aware of him and his job as an enforcer.  I had been part of the Lisa McPherson protests in the 90's & 2000's and had no clue that he was on the outside.  Thought I was seeing a ghost.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner with the question about when/why Rinder left for good.  We had a hurricane here and it's been a little sketchy with power and WiFi.  @applejack is on the money with the answer though, and THANKS!

You mentioned Marty practicing the tech after leaving.  He did, and in addition some of the folks who left the church went to him for help, emotional support, and to continue practicing the tech (Indie Scientology) with Marty as their mentor.  Mike went to Marty when he left, but not sure if he just went for advice, a shoulder, or what. 

Oh, and Rathbun is definitely back. ;)  

Edited by Tim-Tom Biblethumper
too early to spell
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We just watched "My Scientology Movie" the other night. Rathbun was in it. I couldn't quite tell if he was trying to show that the tech was crazy, or that it worked. It was a sort of weird movie.

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4 hours ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

It was more than strange to have Mike come out of a dealership (you know how they do when you're looking at a car).  I was very aware of him and his job as an enforcer.  I had been part of the Lisa McPherson protests in the 90's & 2000's and had no clue that he was on the outside.  Thought I was seeing a ghost.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner with the question about when/why Rinder left for good.  We had a hurricane here and it's been a little sketchy with power and WiFi.  @applejack is on the money with the answer though, and THANKS!

You're welcome!

You protested too? Were you part of the old guard, or did you go with Anonymous? Or a combo of both? I went to a couple of the protests with Anon back when my schedule was a little less hectic, out at the Nashville Celebrity Centre. I hope you're recovering from the hurricane and that you didn't have any really bad damage!

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9 hours ago, applejack said:

You're welcome!

You protested too? Were you part of the old guard, or did you go with Anonymous? Or a combo of both? I went to a couple of the protests with Anon back when my schedule was a little less hectic, out at the Nashville Celebrity Centre. I hope you're recovering from the hurricane and that you didn't have any really bad damage!

It started as 4Chan online (I think) & became Anonymous.  Anonymous & about 6 other concerned citizens (me included)...were the "normies"  haha along with the folks from the McPherson trust (Mark Bunker & Tori Magoo).
Can you believe how this has become a national (even international) thing now?  When I used to talk about Scientology no one believed me, but they do now. :D  

We made out amazingly well for being 30 miles from the center of the eye.  I have a cracked window in Clearwater, and Mom's mobile in Largo is untouched except for about 4 feet of debris.  I have no power though (could be weeks), but she does!  We're extremely fortunate.  And a few (very few) stores opened today.

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Its no surprise that Jada is in. Their children Willow and Jaden sound like they've been raised with some of hubbards child-raising  theories (such as children being adults in children's bodies) 

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I just found out that Catherine Bell is a Scientologist. This was extremely disappointing to me, for some reason. I really like her. :pb_sad:

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I think people join Scientology because they are looking for something in the world. I think this is definitely the case with Leah's mother. 

Edited by Jana814
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On 9/12/2017 at 6:53 AM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

You mentioned Marty practicing the tech after leaving.  He did, and in addition some of the folks who left the church went to him for help, emotional support, and to continue practicing the tech (Indie Scientology) with Marty as their mentor.  Mike went to Marty when he left, but not sure if he just went for advice, a shoulder, or what. 

Thanks for getting back to me and I'm glad you are OK.

Yes, I should have put my question more clearly.  I know when Rinder left (as in the date) but I always wonder how long it takes people to work their way out of the beliefs.

Some people seem to leave because they think Miscavige is perverting L Ron's teaching but the tech is still valid.  They keep practicing, like Marty.

Mike Rinder seems to have shucked all the beliefs now.  He sits there with Leah and they are both at the stage of "we are shocked that we actually believed all that crap!"

When someone, like Rinder, was born into the belief system and lived in it until well into adulthood, I wonder how they are able to reject those long-held beliefs, and how long it takes to change their world view.

My guess is that they need secular and expert therapy and that the length of time varies for everyone.  I wish Rinder would talk about the process more.

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2 hours ago, DaisyD said:

I just found out that Catherine Bell is a Scientologist. This was extremely disappointing to me, for some reason. I really like her. :pb_sad:

That's a bummer - I like a lot of her work, too. Since LRon promoted Scientology to celebrities so much with the prospect of job connections, I do believe many of them get involved to advance their careers. I'm not sure about Catherine Bell, but Priscilla Presley, for instance, is most likely not a big believer. She has even said she doesn't accept all of the teachings (I often wonder if this backfired on her).

Priscilla joined after divorcing Elvis and moving to LA (kind of funny, the only religion Elvis thought was a total scam was Scientology so I often wonder if Priscilla  was initially attracted to it in order to spite him) and was promoting her clothing boutique and getting into acting. Unfortunately she sent Lisa Marie off to those horrific Scientology schools that sound like they're worse than getting homeschooled by Jill Rodrigues. Fortunately, Lisa Marie has left Scientology, and she's made some comments since leaving that are pretty in line with things Leah Remini and Mike Rinder have said about people constantly watching and reporting everything you do and say - there's no one, even friends, who you can truly trust. As far as I'm aware, Priscilla is still involved, but I'm not sure how much - I always got the impression Lisa Marie was more into Scientology than her mother ever was (her first husband, Danny Keough was raised a Scientologist for instance). I would love for Lisa Marie to get more vocal, but I could see her staying silent until her youngest children are adults. I would like Priscilla to be more vocal, too, but she's not always a reliable source of information so I take what she says with a  grain of salt. 

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Catharine Bell was reported to have tried to recruit people on the set of JAG.  I don't know how active she currently is.

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16 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

When someone, like Rinder, was born into the belief system and lived in it until well into adulthood, I wonder how they are able to reject those long-held beliefs, and how long it takes to change their world view.

My guess is that they need secular and expert therapy and that the length of time varies for everyone.  I wish Rinder would talk about the process more.

I hope he addresses his own "recovery" at some point too, along with Leah and her personal story.  We've all heard and read what the final tipping point was for her, and she's told all in her book, but I think there are those who don't know the story that would benefit from hearing it and would understand more about why she's doing this (the show) and how she was personally hurt by the church.

I was glad to see Shelly mentioned in the last episode, along with Heber Jentzsch, and the Broekers.  But TELL US MORE!  Each of their stories are heartbreaking and not over yet (with the exception of Annie who had to die to get out).

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19 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Catharine Bell was reported to have tried to recruit people on the set of JAG.  I don't know how active she currently is.

I found out because I follow her on Facebook and she posted an article written by Bodie Elfman basically calling Leah a hateful bigot. According to one of the blogs (Ortega, I think) she's now forever stuck on OT 7 because she left her husband for a woman some years ago. Posting the article may have been an attempt to get back into good graces.

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22 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

y guess is that they need secular and expert therapy and that the length of time varies for everyone.  I wish Rinder would talk about the process more.

I've always rooted for Rinder - think it's that Oz accent, gets me most times! - and imagine that he's still well within that part of life where it's extremely difficult for him to talk about it. He comes across as a guy who's still reeling from it all. What I'm saying is, it may well be a long long time before he's able to say much of what's on (in) his mind at alll, much less to cameras. Perhaps he can write it down. I might just buy a book like that. (Normally I'm all library, all the time.)

Edited by MamaJunebug
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2 hours ago, DaisyD said:

I found out because I follow her on Facebook and she posted an article written by Bodie Elfman basically calling Leah a hateful bigot. According to one of the blogs (Ortega, I think) she's now forever stuck on OT 7 because she left her husband for a woman some years ago. Posting the article may have been an attempt to get back into good graces.

So CO$ doesn't believe in gays? (My underlining) They aren't a religion so it isn't like they are quoting the bible against it. I hope Catharine Bell is out, I like her too. My husband was a huge JAG fan. Now that show seems funny in light of NCIS and the like :)

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32 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

He comes across as a guy who's still reeling from it all. What I'm saying is, it may well be a long long time before he's able to say much of what's on (in) his mind at alll, much less to cameras.

I agree.  It may well be far too early for Rinder to talk about it.  He's still fragile and processing a lot of things, as demonstrated by his weeping when he hears some people's testimony.  He should definitely wait until he is ready.

It would be interesting at some point if they put someone on the show who is further down the road and able to talk about it though.

They did have Steve Hassan (ex $ci deprogramming expert) on briefly in the last series.  I like Steve Hassan (although I remember someone here deeply dislikes him).  Steve carries some baggage, admittedly.  However, he has grown a lot in his practice knowledge over the years, admits some mistakes, and now advocates much different methods of helping people with recovery.

I'd would like to hear from someone new.  And someone who isn't a professional.

And (small voice) am I the only person who thinks Mike Rinder is dead sexy these days?

I would never have thought that in his enforcer days.  He gave me cold chills.

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4 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

So CO$ doesn't believe in gays? (My underlining) They aren't a religion so it isn't like they are quoting the bible against it. I hope Catharine Bell is out, I like her too. My husband was a huge JAG fan. Now that show seems funny in light of NCIS and the like :)

Oh noooo, they don't, not at all, they're startingly homophobic.

In Dianetics, LRH wrote: 
 

Quote

The sexual pervert (and by this term Dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms of deviation in Dynamic II [i.e. sexuality] such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc., and all down the catalog of Ellis and Krafft-Ebing) is actually quite ill physically...he is very far from culpable for his condition, but he is also far from normal and extremely dangerous to society... (from the Wikipedia article, Scientology and sexual orientation)

Current Scientologists claim the cult has set aside their homophobic views, but the cult does define marriage as being between a man and a woman, so take that as it will. 

In fact, Paul Haggis left the cult because they publicly sponsored and endorsed Prop 8 in California, and he was horrified. Ian Halperin wrote a book called "Hollywood Undercover," where he posed as an Israeli-born wannabe actor who wanted to be cured of his gay, and Scientology claims to be able to "cure" homosexuality through the use of auditing. And probably sec checks. 

You can find Haggis' letter to Tommy Davis here: http://www.scientology-cult.com/declarations-of-independence/59-paul-haggis/158-paul-haggis-resigns-from-church-of-scientology.html

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6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

 

And (small voice) am I the only person who thinks Mike Rinder is dead sexy these days?

I would never have thought that in his enforcer days.  He gave me cold chills.

@Palimpsest,  you're not the only one here who finds Mike Rinder dead sexy nowadays!  Swoon....

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23 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

 Swoon....

Thank Rufus I'm not the only one.  And I'm very happily married and he is too young for me.

If the opposite of arrogance is admitting vulnerability, then I find that sexy.  And who knew the enforcer had a sense of humor.  That is really sexy.  

3 hours ago, applejack said:

Scientology claims to be able to "cure" homosexuality through the use of auditing. And probably sec checks. 

L Ron was viciously anti-gay.

And I would put money on that being their hold on Travolta.  They promised to cure him of the gays with Kelly who is up to her eyeballs in the crap.  

Travolta has seemed to have been on the very cusp of escape a few times, especially after poor Jett.  But he's never made it.  For reasons. And, almost certainly, blackmail.

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21 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

So CO$ doesn't believe in gays? (My underlining) They aren't a religion so it isn't like they are quoting the bible against it. I hope Catharine Bell is out, I like her too. My husband was a huge JAG fan. Now that show seems funny in light of NCIS and the like :)

She's still in as far as I can tell. That Facebook post was a couple days ago.

I've always loved JAG. I watched it when I was in the Navy, and again a couple of years ago. I'll probably watch it again soon. I have the box set.

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Paul Haggis interview is really, really good. Paul said when he resigned he started to tell the CO$ peeps why he was leaving and he brought up MLK Jr. And 2 of the CO$ stood up and said "don't you dare compare a great man like David Miscavage to Martin Luther King"  :wtsf:

 which makes me think of the education of the kids in the system, I would like to know more about how the now adults think about their education. 

Also the first interview with the recruiter was enlightening on the recruiting process

 

The preview for next week is about the child labor camps. I assume it will be triggering to many.

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Today in Blind Gossip (Iknow! I know! It may or may not be true.) there's a story called "She Is Leaving Scientology" about a celebrity who is planning to leave sci. She used to be a close friend of Leah R's, although she won't discuss it. Any ideas who it might be?

I wondered if it could be Elizabeth Moss.

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I really liked Catherine Bell in army wives. I used to watch it when I was married to an army man many moons ago. I've searched online which celebrities are into Scientology and some are pretty surprising 

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@Inky I hope it is Elisabeth Moss! I loved her on The West Wing, and on Mad Men... I have decidedly not watched Handmaid's Tale but I support her in it. I'd love it if she left. 

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Catherine Bell was a student of the late acting teacher Milton Katselas. Milton was a COS member and was said to have recruited some of his students into COS. Other former students claim that Milton never discussed Scientology with them in acting classes. My take is that Milton targeted certain students who might have easily bit the Scientology bait.  Milton defected from COS in the last years of his life. Milton was mentioned in the Going Clear book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Katselas

 

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