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Anna, Josh, and the M-Kids, Part 10: Genes and Bedsheets


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Hmmm_idolatry
11 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

My grandparents fully believed in fairies hanging out in the woods wanting to take children. So, when I was a kid, they would send me and any other kids with bread and nails in our pockets. It's funny looking back on it.

This sounds like Iceland.  In Iceland, they believe in gnomes. In fact, they have such a belief in gnomes that if they feel a gnome is living in a particular tree, they'll make little gnome houses for it.  There is a road in Iceland that goes around a hill. It was supposed to go through the hill, but their machinery kept breaking mysteriously when they were building it.  They decided that it was due to gnomes or elves living there.  They changed the course of the road out of respect for the gnomes. 

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I feel bad for childhood Josh, who was raised in a shitty way. Where I lose all sympathy is seeing how smug he was, even in the early specials when he would have been just a year or two removed from c

I can believe Josh was and is sorry for what he did. I can believe he had a terrible upbringing which contributed to his personal defects and failings. I have some sympathy for 15-year-old Josh. I hav

I've started writing posts for this a few times and gave up a few times. Because I'm never really sure how to say what I think. I'll give it a try though: Reasons I Don't Feel Sympathy for Josh:

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1 minute ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

This sounds like Iceland.  In Iceland, they believe in gnomes. In fact, they have such a belief in gnomes that if they feel a gnome is living in a particular tree, they'll make little gnome houses for it.  There is a road in Iceland that goes around a hill. It was supposed to go through the hill, but their machinery kept breaking mysteriously when they were building it.  They decided that it was due to gnomes or elves living there.  They changed the course of the road out of respect for the gnomes. 

In America we just make tv commercials about them. They are pretty cute until they get annoying!

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patsymae

One side of my family acts all high and mighty because at one time there was a lot of money--but it came from bootlegging and bookmaking. And the servants turned out to be German spies.

the other side my great grandfather escaped a German draft in Alsace Lorraine, came to. America at age 11 and worked himself up from working in an ironworks to being in the NY state assembly and president of the German Music Association of NYC. But he's the black sheep because he was a Socialist.

gotta love it

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Hmmm_idolatry

The family just posted a new pic from their arc visit on their FB page.  Josh is front and center.  

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/a.516618088471845.1073741827.510067475793573/1011979608935688/?type=3&theater

I am beginning to wonder if they're testing the waters with the public, so to speak, by featuring him in public again. 

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Exposed Collarbone
39 minutes ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

 

I am beginning to wonder if they're testing the waters with the public, so to speak, by featuring him in public again. 

A lot of the comments are about how happy they are to see Josh in the photos. Not that commenters on the Duggar blog are a good representation of the public, but their fans are obviously fine with Josh being brought back in. 

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Hmmm_idolatry
5 minutes ago, Exposed Collarbone said:

A lot of the comments are about how happy they are to see Josh in the photos. Not that commenters on the Duggar blog are a good representation of the public, but their fans are obviously fine with Josh being brought back in. 

It's so disturbing to me that people are happy to see him back.  What he did is absolutely vile, and he didn't receive actual counseling.  And to see him holding Meredith on his lap just creeps me out to no end.  I know that he's their son/husband/brother and they obviously have no problem with him, but seeing so many positive comments is really obnoxious.  

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Million Children For Jesus
37 minutes ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

It's so disturbing to me that people are happy to see him back.  What he did is absolutely vile, and he didn't receive actual counseling.  And to see him holding Meredith on his lap just creeps me out to no end.  I know that he's their son/husband/brother and they obviously have no problem with him, but seeing so many positive comments is really obnoxious.  

I felt the same way when I saw the baby on his lap. That made me feel sick. 

ETA: The positive comments are baffling and scary. Who are these people that think the Duggars are a nice family? Happy to see Josh back? WTF? Who takes family pictures with the guy who molested their kids? Any other parent would be charged with child endangerment. 

Edited by Million Children For Jesus
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Kittikatz
7 hours ago, Thorns said:

Now I reeeally want to know her surname! :D Though I fully understand your _____-ing ;)

Vikings ✌ (axes and horses and violence, it is sorta in our blood I guess :P )

Edit: And as for "vatte", the common norwegian spelling is vette, which is just a word that denotes a supernatural/mytical creature. Usually specified with a prefix to give a location, f.i. "skogsvette" forrest-vette, and those again would usually have a specific name, like the female Huldra, who lures men to her lair. Another name for her i "vittra", and she is a forrest creature. 

Being from Northern Norway your family might have oral traditions that are influenced from the Sami people and Russia as well. The northerns have traditionally had a rich mystic lore :)

Yes, the name would be telling!! Especially to those who have studied Scandinavian history :tw_glasses:

That's interesting information - I'm a recovering archaeologist, so never got much into the folklore and oral traditions side of things, but the Russian and Sami influences make sense. Family stories feature my Great Great Grandmother telling a local VIP (male, of course) to suck her staff (she wasn't that polite, but you get the drift) when he tried to stop her from going "across" (across, what I don't know) to help a Russian woman in labour. Given the family tendency towards violence, it wouldn't surprise me if the discussion was punctuated by a solid wack of said stick to some vunerable body part. And we do have more than a few Sami people in our extended family. Great Grandmother's first husband was a Sami, and they had two children together before he died. Other relatives similarly married in. It stands to reason that cultures that were so closely intertwined would have a profound influence on each other. Also, given the relative isolation of the area, some of their lore may not have been recorded in as much detail as it was in other areas. 

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send*the*ferrets

I don't think there is reason to speculate Josh is inappropriate with his own children, and I think it might cross a line to do so? 

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Hmmm_idolatry
19 minutes ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I don't think there is reason to speculate Josh is inappropriate with his own children, and I think it might cross a line to do so? 

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I think Josh might have abused his own kids.  I have no evidence of anything like that, and I honestly wasn't speculating.  I just find him creepy based on what we do know about him.  And the Duggars themselves also found it creepy, hence their rule they claim they initiated about not allowing brothers to hold sisters on their laps.  I don't think he's done anything to his own kids; but he still creeps me out when I see him with a girl on his lap, purely because of what he did in the past.  It's my own hangup, I guess.  

I personally don't trust the guy-especially since he never got legitimate counseling.  There was the first incident with his sisters and then years later the Ashley Madison incident.  He still hasn't gotten any legit counseling that we know of, and maybe I just lack faith, but the Jesus rehab he went to was useless.  Again, I'm not saying he's abused his own children, or any other children since the incident years ago; I just think the guy is creepy and I don't trust him.

Edited by Hmmm_idolatry
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PainfullyAware

I agree that Josh is super creepy and I also agree there is no evidence he is abusive of children now. From what little I know, minors commiting abuses of other minors are no more likely to grow up to do it as adults than anyone else - it's a separate issue. In fact his Ashley Madison and porn addiction issues say to me that his destructive behaviors morphed as he matured. As an adult his unhealthy and hurtful actions are directed towards having affairs and obsessively watching porn. That's what lack of adequate therapy contributed to, as well as all the social problems of insular, repressive, and stigmatizing religious communities, as well as his own character failings and bad choices. Not defending him but I also think making assumptions that his own kids, who will grow up and read the internet one day, shouldn't have to read, isn't necessary.

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Million Children For Jesus
1 hour ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I think Josh might have abused his own kids.  I have no evidence of anything like that, and I honestly wasn't speculating.  I just find him creepy based on what we do know about him.  And the Duggars themselves also found it creepy, hence their rule they claim they initiated about not allowing brothers to hold sisters on their laps.  I don't think he's done anything to his own kids; but he still creeps me out when I see him with a girl on his lap, purely because of what he did in the past.  It's my own hangup, I guess.  

I personally don't trust the guy-especially since he never got legitimate counseling.  There was the first incident with his sisters and then years later the Ashley Madison incident.  He still hasn't gotten any legit counseling that we know of, and maybe I just lack faith, but the Jesus rehab he went to was useless.  Again, I'm not saying he's abused his own children, or any other children since the incident years ago; I just think the guy is creepy and I don't trust him.

My sentiments exactly. I certainly did not mean to imply that I suspected him of anything illegal or abusive with his own children, only that (especially) given his past, having a child on his lap is inappropriate. 

When I worked at a kids camp, we were not allowed to have children on our laps, backs, or shoulders. It is considered sexually inappropriate and parents can file criminal charges and civil suits for it. Not kidding. I'm an affectionate person and to think of being called inappropriate, or criminal, for hugging a kid is really offensive, but this is the world we live in now. It would be prudent for any person to avoid these things for liability reasons. 

Given that he's a public figure, fresh off a scandal, he and his family should be aware of this. This is the kind of thing they paid Chad Gallagher to tell them. This is why Chad Gallagher is considered a terrible PR rep because he probably didn't tell them this. Or he did tell them and the Duggars are insolent jerk faces who disregarded his advice, which is part of why other people refused to work with the Duggars. Either way, whether because of his history, or for PR reasons, or just to be prudent as people are starting to be required, the Duggars should know better. It's basically their job and livelihood to know better. Just to clarify, this is solely in regards to children on laps and in no way is meant to imply or speculate any other activity. 

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VeryNikeSeamstress
5 hours ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

The family just posted a new pic from their arc visit on their FB page.  Josh is front and center.  

https://www.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/a.516618088471845.1073741827.510067475793573/1011979608935688/?type=3&theater

I am beginning to wonder if they're testing the waters with the public, so to speak, by featuring him in public again. 

He's wearing a red hat with an A on it... How appropriate.

I know i stands for 'Arkansas', but still. If The Scarlet Letter weren't forbidden defrauding literature, perhaps the family would've edited it out so as not to draw attention to recent scandals.

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send*the*ferrets

I taught public preschool and kindergarten, and we were never warned against having children sit on our laps or giving hugs. We were told we couldn't wipe their bottoms after they went to the restroom, but I didn't feel that having a child sit in my lap to read a story was in any way in appropriate. In fact there is a literacy movement encouraging parents to give children more "lap time" reading books before kindergarten. 

I agree Josh is a creepy person in general, and I have no doubt he's imposing those creepy views on his own kids I just don't think he should be forbidden from interacting with his own kids I guess.... I think having parental rights severed can do a lot of harm. 

I feel like I almost always edit- I don't think josh is a good guy, I think he's gross and his cult is gross. But I don't think he's abusing his kids and I don't think he shouldn't be allowed to have his kid on his lap. I don't think he's abusing his kids. The Duggars shouldn't have made the stupid "don't put kids on your lap" rule, they should have gotten him fucking help in he first place. For a normal person, having a child on your lap is not sexual in the least. 

Edited by send*the*ferrets
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closetcagebaby
16 hours ago, singsingsing said:

This may be my favourite thread drift ever.

I think the weirdest bit of folklore from my own family came from my grandpa. He said that when he was a kid the adults would tell them that if you went outside when the Northern Lights were out and whistled, they would come down and 'get you'.

I grew up in Alaska and my parents always told me this too!

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singsingsing
8 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

I grew up in Alaska and my parents always told me this too!

Okay, so it wasn't just some crazy thing my grandpa's parents told him! My grandpa lived about as far away from Alaska as you can get and still be on the same continent, interesting that that folklore seems to reach far and wide.

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Carm_88
14 hours ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

This sounds like Iceland.  

Haha, no. I'm not from Iceland. Although, I don't doubt that fear of the Good People runs far and wide. ;) 

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Gillyweed
1 hour ago, send*the*ferrets said:

 

I taught public preschool and kindergarten, and we were never warned against having children sit on our laps or giving hugs. We were told we couldn't wipe their bottoms after they went to the restroom, but I didn't feel that having a child sit in my lap to read a story was in any way in appropriate. In fact there is a literacy movement encouraging parents to give children more "lap time" reading books before kindergarten. 

 

I was a camp counselor last summer, and we were told we couldn't even hug the kids. When we went on field trips, we weren't allowed inside the public bathrooms unless there were no campers in there. 

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send*the*ferrets
9 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

I was a camp counselor last summer, and we were told we couldn't even hug the kids. When we went on field trips, we weren't allowed inside the public bathrooms unless there were no campers in there. 

That just seems like they are overcompensating to the point of it being dangerous- what if somebody else in the bathroom does something? Or what if a kid trips and falls, or what if there is bullying in the bathroom (which I've seen many times, unfortunately)? It's a public bathroom for goodness sake. A single person locked stall? No reason to enter that. A public restroom? Limiting access seems dumb. 

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VineHeart137
13 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

I was a camp counselor last summer, and we were told we couldn't even hug the kids. When we went on field trips, we weren't allowed inside the public bathrooms unless there were no campers in there. 

I've seen both sides. When I taught preschool and was a sub/aide for a private school, it was fine to hug the kids or let them sit on your lap. But when I worked at an after school care program when I was in college, we were told not to carry or allow kids to sit on our laps. The director said that he would never not hug a kid who asked for one, because sometimes kids just need hugs, so he wouldn't tell us not to hug them either, but we had to be mindful when we did it- not too long, make sure your hands were high up on their backs and clearly visible, etc.

Maybe it has something to do with the position- Camp counselors and after care workers tend to be younger, as in teenagers or college students, and may be therefore deemed less trustworthy than people in teaching positions who tend to be older and generally need a degree and/or some sort of certification to be employed. Which is a bit silly but could help explain the difference in my experiences.

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mpheels
5 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

 The director said that he would never not hug a kid who asked for one, because sometimes kids just need hugs, so he wouldn't tell us not to hug them either, but we had to be mindful when we did it- not too long, make sure your hands were high up on their backs and clearly visible, etc.

Re. the bolded - my mom says the same thing. She's retired from teaching/school administration, and currently volunteers as a court appointed child advocate for kids in foster care or contentious custody disputes. Her only job as a child advocate is to speak up for the child's best interests - it's pretty subjective, and independent of more objective assessments from social workers, psychologists, and legal advocates. Technically, child advocates are not supposed to hug kids, but for some of her kids, she is the only stable adult presence in their life with no agenda. If a six year old runs up to hug her when she walks into the room, she's going to hug him back in a way that is appropriate for their relationship.

Edited by choralcrusader8613
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Lizzybet
16 hours ago, Hmmm_idolatry said:

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I think Josh might have abused his own kids.  I have no evidence of anything like that, and I honestly wasn't speculating.  I just find him creepy based on what we do know about him.  And the Duggars themselves also found it creepy, hence their rule they claim they initiated about not allowing brothers to hold sisters on their laps.  I don't think he's done anything to his own kids; but he still creeps me out when I see him with a girl on his lap, purely because of what he did in the past.  It's my own hangup, I guess.  

I personally don't trust the guy-especially since he never got legitimate counseling.  There was the first incident with his sisters and then years later the Ashley Madison incident.  He still hasn't gotten any legit counseling that we know of, and maybe I just lack faith, but the Jesus rehab he went to was useless.  Again, I'm not saying he's abused his own children, or any other children since the incident years ago; I just think the guy is creepy and I don't trust him.

The Ashley Madison scandal isn't creepy to me, but I do think it means Josh is a jerk. 

 

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Hmmm_idolatry

It's creepy to me because, when coupled with his abuse of his own sisters, it tells me that he views women as disposable playthings who are only there for his pleasure.  

Not surprising that he'd feel this way-Gothard's teachings on women are some of the most misogynistic things I've ever seen; it would have been a miracle if he didn't feel this way about women.  I understand why he'd be so curious about sex, but once he started having sex, those teachings came back to haunt him.  He needs a whole lot of psychiatric help, and he hasn't gotten it.  It would be a miracle if he never had another sex scandal again.  

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ActualReality
On 3/27/2017 at 2:01 PM, choralcrusader8613 said:

Previous thread here:

Most of the last thread was spent discussing the value of genetic testing, with the occasional picture of Josh, Anna and the kids. We also talked about the benefits of flannel sheets. Y'all can have my share of that LOL! I need to be cold when I sleep.

We're still waiting on the birth of M5, which is happening..."later this year"? Guess we'll be waiting a while.

Am I reading this correctly?  Is Anna pregnant again?

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