Anna, Josh, and the M-Kids, Part 10: Genes and Bedsheets

[mango_fandango]

Holy crap. Just checked that Lily and Ellie blog. Marcus and Michael could be twins. 

Matthew Robert would be likely. Malachi would be a little out there given their current pattern. Joshua would also work as a middle name. 

[Bad Wolf]

Grandwolf is Robert James. I would have had a hard time if they'd reversed it, and they didn't reveal the name until after the birth.

[Italiangirl]

This is my first attemp to use the spoiler tag do tell.me it i due it wrong 

I was reading the comment on the Duggar family (fan) blog about Marcus Bday and found this  

Spoiler

 

I couldn't belive, all this aetens woman are castrating the good men this is the reason for everything 

[season of life]

"Beta and delta males." I actively avoid ANYONE who uses the terms "alpha male" or "beta male". What the hell are you, a wolf? I notice that it's mostly men using these words to talk badly about other men.

Another red flag for me is blaming women for the emasculated of men. Fragile egos everywhere!

[Italiangirl]

I know my eybrows was so up that become part of my hair...and the finale? "Shame on YOU"? I have no words...

[emscm]

I can't even imagine a construction of masculinity so fragile that criticism of what's age appropriate for a child tears it down. 

There are no words. 

[missegeno]

Someone's 4yr old apparently knows that the dog is a target and think that should apply to the Duggars. They seem to have forgotten that adult and married D's thought a cat was a target for a sled

[bananabread]

I'm desperately hoping that M5 is named Malachi. I LOVE that name, and I think it's really cool even out here in the secular world. I could be happy with Micah or Malcolm though.

[Pasta]

Mobert Mames. Perfect. Named after boob and fits the m theme. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

When I see Anna smiling and posing in a picture with Josh I think this:

How does Anna fully express her feelings in this marriage where she was hurt so deeply and humiliated in front of the entire country while still keeping sweet, serving her husband and adhering to her cult? That has to be the most emotionally and mentally exhausting position to be in day in and day out. And I bet the Duggars and Kellers smile and tip toe around Josh and try to make things less awkward for HIM. I'm just imagining that's how it is. Pure conjecture. 

[BabyBottlePop]

10 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

How does Anna fully express her feelings in this marriage where she was hurt so deeply and humiliated in front of the entire country while still keeping sweet, serving her husband and adhering to her cult? That has to be the most emotionally and mentally exhausting position to be in day in and day out. And I bet the Duggars and Kellers smile and tip toe around Josh and try to make things less awkward for HIM. I'm just imagining that's how it is. Pure conjecture. 

Yes. Like I feel if I were her, it's like everywhere you go, everyone knows your husband touched his siblings and cheated on you. 

[GreyhoundFan]

14 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I still think there's a chance for "Little Jim-Bob". Smuggar will do anything to be back in his father's grace.

Or, if they wanted to stay with the "M" theme -- M'Jim-Bob.

[Mela99]

I think it boils down to this: Anna is told to pray. Period. Jesus will not forgive her unless she forgives. No bringing up the past. Prayer is the only  therapy allowed. 

[Carm_88]

Just now, Mela99 said:

I think it boils down to this: Anna is told to pray. Period. Jesus will not forgive her unless she forgives. No bringing up the past. Prayer is the only  therapy allowed. 

And if prayer doesn't work, then she is the problem.  

[bananabread]

1 hour ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

When I see Anna smiling and posing in a picture with Josh I think this:

How does Anna fully express her feelings in this marriage where she was hurt so deeply and humiliated in front of the entire country while still keeping sweet, serving her husband and adhering to her cult? That has to be the most emotionally and mentally exhausting position to be in day in and day out. And I bet the Duggars and Kellers smile and tip toe around Josh and try to make things less awkward for HIM. I'm just imagining that's how it is. Pure conjecture. 

The humiliation is what I can't wrap my head around. On the rare occasion that my SO and I snap at each other in public, I feel embarrassed and disappointed in myself for weeks. I can't imagine the entire world knowing my husband was someone like Smuggar.

[Kelsey]

My guess is Matthew Robert. 

My hope is that Anna would say "Fuck this letter shit, I'm naming my kid what I want."

[Eternalbluepearl]

55 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I think it boils down to this: Anna is told to pray. Period. Jesus will not forgive her unless she forgives. No bringing up the past. Prayer is the only  therapy allowed. 

What does she need to be forgiven for? Just "forgiven" in general for being born and being a sinner or something having to do with Josh's behavior? (I'm just thinking out loud about these beliefs not actually trying to attack you @Mela99)

1 minute ago, Kelsey said:

My guess is Matthew Robert. 

My hope is that Anna would say "Fuck this letter shit, I'm naming my kid what I want."

Seriously! It's like Josh and Anna tried to be the new JimBob and Michelle with the letter thing. It was enough with the J's. 

[SuhrEnity]

The cheating was probably presented to her as being all her fault for not being constantly joyfully available. Mackenzie is old enough to be a sister mum and do the necessary things so she can always be ready to service Joshua at any time he needs his pipes cleaned. how dare she try to be a good mother and look after her own kids or wash the dishes herself. she should follow the example of Michelle and do nothing. There is no way she doesn't blame herself for his cheating.

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

 

@Italiangirl Wow, thanks for sharing that screenshot! That person talking about little boys being "castrated" by age limits on nerf guns is quite a piece of work! Making the kid wait till he's at the reccomended age to play with a nerf gun will NOT make his penis fall off! Christ on a cracker, fundies can be so dramatic about jinder role enforcement.  

 

@missegeno When the other person mentioned the dog in the background, I thought of Derjill and the incident with the cat too! If Marcus shot the nerf gun bullets directly at the dog, I wonder if Josh or Anna would tell him to stop, or if they'd laugh/think he was being cute. 

On a somewhat (but not really...) related note, my kitties LOVE chasing/playing with nerf gun bullets , but then again, my husband and I don't aim the nerf guns directly at them when we play with them. Our kitties know what a nerf gun loading sounds like, so they'll gather around our feet while we load the guns and wait for us to fire them across the room so they can chase them. 

[Lurky]

@Eternalbluepearl One of the nastiest parts of Fundy theology is that refusing to forgive someone is as bad a sin as the thing they aren't forgiving.  EG all the sexual abuse cases where the church confronts the abuser, who begs forgiveness, and because Jesus is all loving an died for our sins, he's washed clean in the blood of the lamb - and the pastor then admonishes the victim, because if God has forgiven the abuser, and he's genuinely sorry, she is the one sinning by going against God's will. (I paraphrase, but it's come up a lot in the court cases and so on of the Fundy abuses).

See also the ATI pamphlets that were for "counselling" the victim, where victims are supposed to re-frame their experience as an opportunity to get closer to God, and grow, spiritually, by being able to forgive.  And that holding onto bitterness in the heart is the REAL hurt, not the hurt to the body the abuser caused.

This is in terms of being abused, but we've seen the same thing being described in terms of all kinds of hurt.  Jana, eg, was told that when Jessa was kicking her bunkbed at night and being horrible to her (in a bratty younger sibling fashion, that is super-common, I interpret) that the parents wouldn't tell off Jessa - instead Jana had to give up one of her prized possessions to Jessa to try to make Jessa like her more.  It's like a really warped veerion of 'turn the other cheek'.

[Jana814]

Of course she would blame herself for what happened. I'm sure Josh probably said "you are the reason why I cheated". I'm sure he also know that no matter what he does she will never divorce him. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Prayers for Anna. Sigh.

[Eternalbluepearl]

12 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

Of course she would blame herself for what happened. I'm sure Josh probably said "you are the reason why I cheated". I'm sure he also know that no matter what he does she will never divorce him. 

The bolded is what worries me the most for Anna and Josh's marriage as well as others like them. I don't think a breaking point exists. That's not healthy. 

 

Thank you @Lurky for the explanation!

[nickelodeon]

I know that if I had a bastard husband who held me in so much contempt that he spent thousands of dollars to find someone to cheat on me with, dollars that should have gone to providing for my kids...... I wouldn't be able to restrain myself from kicking him in the dick every time I saw him. I can't imagine the complex thought processes keeping Anna so smiley.

[JDuggs]

17 minutes ago, SuhrEnity said:

The cheating was probably presented to her as being all her fault for not being constantly joyfully available. Mackenzie is old enough to be a sister mum and do the necessary things so she can always be ready to service Joshua at any time he needs his pipes cleaned. how dare she try to be a good mother and look after her own kids or wash the dishes herself. she should follow the example of Michelle and do nothing. There is no way she doesn't blame herself for his cheating.

I disagree that Anna wasn't "constantly joyfully available." She knew that was her main job and she was "blessings"-crazy. I think that Josh wanted to limit his "blessings" so he limited his requests. Also, maybe he wasn't as turned on by sex with a constantly pregnant wife as he was by porn. I haven't seen any evidence that this was blamed on Anna. Is there pressure to forgive him? Definitely.