Pecans in the Big Blue House - Priss & TFDW Part 5

[VooDooChild]

10 minutes ago, Flossie said:

I think he's trying to prove something.

A lot of people think he's gay.  But gay or straight, David wants to be seen as a Family Man.  I suspect that in his world, a Christian man with a wife and kids couldn't possibly be gay.

Or he's trying to build his brand.  He was Gothards #2 for a time, maybe he wants to be the new and improved version of Gothard.  The cult needs a Face.  What better than a Godly young man who is making sure his wife is dutifully pumping out as many of God's Blessings as possible, while he goes about his business of helping to make sure that the cult keeps running.  Have you looked at his back story?  He was raised in the cult, his family were missionaries to Mongloia for a time, hell, even his older brother Isaac died because he didn't want to disrupt the mission with his silly little health problem that eventually killed him.  The family even buried Isaac in Mongolia instead of bringing his body back to the States.

I agree that he has something to prove.  Both of your proposed scenarios are plausible.  Yeah, I remember reading about his brother a long time ago.  It was cancer, IIRC.  I thought the whole thing was totally insensitive.  But as long as Jebus gets the glory, right?!

At time's I feel so sorry for the people stuck in this cult.  I know David was raised in it.  I know he wasn't raised to think critically of anything, and that is the part that I find so unfortunate.  There is a better life out their.  All his forced happiness is just pathetic.  But other times I think......he's an adult.  He's now responsible for putting his children through this crap.  Then I lose all sympathy.  

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, VooDooChild said:

Why must he incessantly drive home the "family" theme?  He must be exhausting to be around. #FreeDavia

#CookingDinnerForMyFamily #WeEatTogetherAsAFamily #WeCleanTheDishesAsAFamily #Familytime #FamilyFun #Families4Life #OMGFAMILIES!!!!11!!!

Probably because Gothardism teaches that a man should have no other outside life (i.e., friends, hobbies, club memberships) other than being the "head" of his family. I recently read a book called "Ungodly Women: Gender and the First Wave of American Fundamentalism" by Betty A. Deberg, and she says that industrialization broke up the traditional agrarian patriarchal family, since the man now had to spend most of his time working outside the home for someone else. The woman became the default head of the household, in keeping with the "two spheres" ideology that said a woman's place was in the home. Although men were still theoretically in charge, their relationship to the home itself became more nebulous, because they spent most of their time away from it. While I doubt any self-identified fundies are reading Deberg, I don't think it's coincidental that so many Christian patriarchy groups, from Catholic traditionalists to Gothardites encourage men to eschew conventional jobs in favor of working at home or in "ministry," since having dad around the house all the time means that he can be a full-time patriarch.

[gustava]

13 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

eschew

Love this word!!!  And your post makes a lot of sense.

[hollyandivy]

14 hours ago, VooDooChild said:

 

At time's I feel so sorry for the people stuck in this cult.  I know David was raised in it.  I know he wasn't raised to think critically of anything, and that is the part that I find so unfortunate.  There is a better life out their.  All his forced happiness is just pathetic.  But other times I think......he's an adult.  He's now responsible for putting his children through this crap.  Then I lose all sympathy.  

I sort of disagree: yes he lives in an adult body - BUT - he was never allowed to develop any critical thinking skills, he was born into the cult, raised in it, had to suffer through homeschooling (and I am not condemning every mom homeschooling) and learned to see the world through cult-coloured glasses.  When was he supposed to learn to see that there is anything wrong with his world view? I mean, we call them kidults for a reason, right? 

Every "normal" person gets taught at some point to try to look at things from a different point of view to try to understand all people. To learn and ask questions why things are happening, what you could do to change things, where not to "follow the leader".  

This is not so when growing up in a cult. Your parents/leaders make sure that any sign of thinking on your own gets weeded out right at the beginning - just drink the coolaid, spout the party line and everything is fine and dandy.  And to avoid any contact with those who could teach you critical thinking, the kids get homeschooled with wisdom booklets. Pair that with limited or no internet access and the teaching that your parents come right after God and you need to obey them to go to heaven...

So I think, it is extremely hard if not close to impossible to separate yourself from the cult.  It takes an extremely strong individual to do that.  I think it is not fair to compare adults that grew up funny to "normal" people. They were not equipped with a skill set that enables them to make educated decisions.  

[Howl]

 

15 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

While I doubt any self-identified fundies are reading Deberg, I don't think it's coincidental that so many Christian patriarchy groups, from Catholic traditionalists to Gothardites encourage men to eschew conventional jobs in favor of working at home or in "ministry," since having dad around the house all the time means that he can be a full-time patriarch.

Bingo!  I was just thinking about this a few days ago, as an offshoot of thinking about emotional incest related to extreme gender roles in patriarchy.  If y'all recall, Libby Anne blogs at Love, Joy, Feminism  and she did a four-part series on emotional incest back in April 2012.  For those who weren't Free Gingering back then, it's well worth a read to understand some the unintended consequences of extreme patriarchy, Vision Forum  style:   Emotional Incest, Part 1: Definitions  Part 1 has links to the other three posts. 

When I was thinking about the new movements Scottie Brown  is trying tie in with (LifeLaunch and the farmstead thing) and it's emphasis on the family economy, it made me realize exactly the points Cleopatra7 addressed.  If a dad wants to be a real patriarch, he has to be at home actively controlling everybody; patriarchy's extreme vision isn't realized when boys are raised by their moms.  

[infooverload]

I guess we will not see David posting pictures of him playing softball with the guys again.

[Carm_88]

Also included in the instagram dump was this picture of Priscilla, Suze, and their Mom. Davia, hang onto your auntie, she might help you get out of dodge.  

[imokit]

Suze looks like Anna with make up and hair dye and less stress.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

9 hours ago, infooverload said:

I guess we will not see David posting pictures of him playing softball with the guys again.

Any particular reason why? 

[cindyluvs24]

Anyone else think Priscilla looks like Gwyneth Paltrow's demented older sister ?   (to be fair, she looked quite Gwyneth-like in another photo)

[SilverBeach]

11 hours ago, hollyandivy said:

 

So I think, it is extremely hard if not close to impossible to separate yourself from the cult.  It takes an extremely strong individual to do that.  I think it is not fair to compare adults that grew up funny to "normal" people. They were not equipped with a skill set that enables them to make educated decisions.  

People leave cults every day, FLDS, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others. Cults that shun and where you lose your family, support system, and community when you leave. Cults where you pay a steep price for getting out.

Brainwashing and mind control are real. But the key difference with TFDW and his ilk is that they haven't been hurt by the cult, and in fact benefit from being in it. There's no reason to leave, nothing that has triggered any questioning or discontent.

I bet all cult defectors are shaking in their boots when they actually leave. I don't know that they are stronger than anybody else, but they are definitely more courageous. At some point, it hurt more to stay in than it did to get out.

No infantilizing TFDW or any other Gothardites. They stay in because they want to.

[hollyandivy]

23 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

People leave cults every day, FLDS, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others. Cults that shun and where you lose your family, support system, and community when you leave. Cults where you pay a steep price for getting out.

Brainwashing and mind control are real. But the key difference with TFDW and his ilk is that they haven't been hurt by the cult, and in fact benefit from being in it. There's no reason to leave, nothing that has triggered any questioning or discontent.

I bet all cult defectors are shaking in their boots when they actually leave. I don't know that they are stronger than anybody else, but they are definitely more courageous. At some point, it hurt more to stay in than it did to get out.

No infantilizing TFDW or any other Gothardites. They stay in because they want to.

Yes, they do, but as you pointed out: because they were hurt.  So as long as you happily spout the party line there is no reason to examine the koolaid you were steeped in.  And I still think they are literally not able at this point to do so.   Yes, the cult might be limiting their choices in regard to dress, education, job etc. but they are led to believe that this is what God wants, so unless something major happens they will not reevaluate their situation.

you also need to be a risk taker to leave everything behind that you know, all your family and friends. The tight seem overwhelming to a lot of people , especially if you have small children depending on you.

Anyway,  I will continue to cut them a lot of slack - it is not entirely their fault.....

[SilverBeach]

11 hours ago, hollyandivy said:

Yes, they do, but as you pointed out: because they were hurt.  So as long as you happily spout the party line there is no reason to examine the koolaid you were steeped in.  And I still think they are literally not able at this point to do so.   Yes, the cult might be limiting their choices in regard to dress, education, job etc. but they are led to believe that this is what God wants, so unless something major happens they will not reevaluate their situation.

you also need to be a risk taker to leave everything behind that you know, all your family and friends. The tight seem overwhelming to a lot of people , especially if you have small children depending on you.

Anyway,  I will continue to cut them a lot of slack - it is not entirely their fault.....

I disagree about literally not being able to examine their cult. I think they choose not to.

Can't cut too much slack because they are harmful and dangerous. 

Of course it is overwhelming to leave a cult, but many of those who leave especially FLDS have multiple young children. Doesn't mean it can't be done. Difficult isn't impossible.

I have nothing but respect for those who do the right thing and get out of these reprehensible organizations despite the cost. 

[PennySycamore]

@usmcmom, twice this week I have seen that village, Cinque Terre, on various media.  First it was in an email from Travel and Leisure about great places to visit and just a little while ago, I saw it on an ad for this season of Rick Steve's Europe.

ETA:  If anyone is curious as to what village I'm talking about, it's on page 2 of this thread.

[infooverload]

Any particular reason why? 

I should have done a longer post to explain my thinking with the statement. I was thinking about how others mentioned the isolation of basically only spending time with the family. When David and Priscilla were still in Chicago he played on a men's softball team and pictures were posted to the website. With them no being in Texas and the ad nauseum mentions of family time, I don't see David being part of a non family activity with grown male friends having fun.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

4 hours ago, infooverload said:

 

 

I should have done a longer post to explain my thinking with the statement. I was thinking about how others mentioned the isolation of basically only spending time with the family. When David and Priscilla were still in Chicago he played on a men's softball team and pictures were posted to the website. With them no being in Texas and the ad nauseum mentions of family time, I don't see David being part of a non family activity with grown male friends having fun.

 

 

I gotcha! I remember he used to write about his "fun with friends as guys". WTF? Why not just say you and your friends are having men's fellowship night or something? 

[marmalade]

But weren't his buddies all IBLP employees? Wouldn't they have also re-located to TX (aside from Brandon, but he doesn't strike me as particularly athletic)? I don't see any reason for him to have stopped Men's Fellowship, other than he's been working on the house. I bet he gets a lot of guys to come over after work or on Saturdays (no work on the Sabbath, yo) to help out. 

[Palimpsest]

On 4/6/2017 at 6:01 PM, Flossie said:

He was raised in the cult, his family were missionaries to Mongloia for a time, hell, even his older brother Isaac died because he didn't want to disrupt the mission with his silly little health problem that eventually killed him.  The family even buried Isaac in Mongolia instead of bringing his body back to the States.

The Wallers didn't really spend all that much time in Mongolia, although they boast about it all the time.  The Wallers were raised in the US and steeped in IBLP.  

Adam and Isaac were both involved in teaching Character First before they moved as a family to the IBLP mission to Mongolia.  Isaac was only there for 4 months before he died.  Also, to be fair, he might not have survived even in the US.  It sounds like a very aggressive form of leukemia.  Nor was his health completely ignored.  He did have medical treatment from a Missionary hospital.

Adam Waller's tributes to his twin are here:  http://visionserve.org/category/isaac-waller/ 

 

[formergothardite]

While both David and Priscilla were raised in the cult, so were thousands of other people who figured out how to leave. David, though, figured out how to get a pretty high position in the cult. There is no way he didn't get to where is he is without hearing about the rampant abuse. It is like Gil Bates, you don't move up in the cult with clean hands. 

I'm not going to cut him any slack. 

[freejugar]

I really think Priscilla needs glasses. Maybe they don't have money for that? Or does David not allow her to use them cause he thinks it looks bad?

I really hope they get glasses for the children if they need them

 

Also Smuggar is in the Paul birthday post ugggh

[Front Hugging Fiend]

I don't know if we snark on the extended Waller family, but it seems that the Pecan Thief's brother had *gasp* sex before marriage! 

Quote

Derrick & Jennifer were married in June of last year. What a blessing Jennifer is to our family! Her enthusiasm for the Lord and joy she brings into everyday life are a wonderful gift. In September, Derrick and Jennifer welcomed their first child into the world, a beautiful baby girl! She is such a treasure! She has so many wonderfully cute expressions! Derrick and Jennifer are moving to Virginia the first part of the year. Derrick will be working with Jennifer’s family on their farm. We will miss them greatly, but hope to visit them often!

Taken from the Waller fam website.

This is interesting. Do they just ignore it like it never happened, or do they try to change the narrative completely? If it were the latter I would assume they would omit the month of marriage to stop it from being so obvious that they gave away pieces of their precious hearts before they entered the right season of life.

EDIT: Apparently, the Wallers suck at their own math. Derrick & Jennifer married in June 2015 and had a child in 2016. Nothing to snark about here. I got excited. Sorry folks.

[Jana814]

The death of the Waller's son is really sad. Aggressive Leukemia is no joke.  Also as someone said above even if he was in the US it would not have been a good outcome. 

[Hmmm_idolatry]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:37 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

While I doubt any self-identified fundies are reading Deberg, I don't think it's coincidental that so many Christian patriarchy groups, from Catholic traditionalists to Gothardites encourage men to eschew conventional jobs in favor of working at home or in "ministry," since having dad around the house all the time means that he can be a full-time patriarch.

Thank you for mentioning "ministry" in your post.  I am not, nor have ever been an evangelical Christian, so I find a lot of their language and expected behaviors (the hands in the air postures during the service) to be completely foreign.  I know that other forms of Christianity, including Catholicism, which is the faith I was raised in, have the hand gesture thing, but the closed eyes and swaying (I know that orthodox Jews do this too) was completely new to me and I was shocked when I first saw it.  The language in particular is very interesting to me.  I have a friend from junior high who made some post on Instagram about surrendering to God, or something like that, and one of her friends commented, "You are doing such great things with your ministry."  I was so confused because I happen to know that she's an insurance agent.  I messaged her to ask if she had quit her job and she said no.  So, I take this to mean that these people all see themselves as ministers of some sort.  Anybody know? I didn't want to ask her what her friend meant by "ministry" because I knew this person would then take this as an opportunity to preach to my godless heathen ass, and I didn't want to have to tell her to politely fuck off.  

Edited to add:  I'm not against evangelical Christians, so I mean no offense with my post.  I just find that they seem to have a language all their own when it comes to their daily lives, and I think it is fascinating.  I'm also fascinated by the use of the term "godly".  

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

While both David and Priscilla were raised in the cult, so were thousands of other people who figured out how to leave. David, though, figured out how to get a pretty high position in the cult. There is no way he didn't get to where is he is without hearing about the rampant abuse. It is like Gil Bates, you don't move up in the cult with clean hands. 

I'm not going to cut him any slack. 

Absolutely.  I cut him no slack either.  David is highly ambitious and has probably kicked many other peoples' teeth out as he climbed to the top of the ladder at IBLP.  He knows where the Gothard skeletons are buried, I'm sure.

We should also remember that David's job at ATI is to encourage others to join the cult and try to prevent people from leaving it.  He may be young but he's wallowing in the muck right up to his deplorable little neck.

[Carm_88]

14 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

We should also remember that David's job at ATI is to encourage others to join the cult and try to prevent people from leaving it.  He may be young but he's wallowing in the muck right up to his deplorable little neck.

Which is why it's all #fun, #family, or the ultimate #family fun! David Waller is trying to showcase the IBLP lifestyle to the best of his ability. We may laugh at his instagram and blog posts, but that's part of his job. He wants to suck more people into this cult.