Safe at Home 2: The Continuing Adventures of The Arndts

[Million Children For Jesus]

10 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Mom and Dad were their focus, my sisters didn't give over any earnings but did spend hard earned money on them never mind that both parents worked decent jobs and didn't need for anything, money that my sisters could have used in building their own lives.  

This is par for the course. They have family dinners in, family dinners out, just enough get togethers to keep everybody perpetually broke from "picking up dinner" to "pitch in and help"

I started working at a young age and all of my money went towards gifts that I felt obligated to buy, and ordering food to help my poor mom and poor aunt, or else you're an ungrateful burden because cooking is hard for them. The more I worked, the more demands I had put on me, and the worse my financial situation became. If you're working, you're expected to buy things for other people, to your own detriment. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

11 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

While both sisters did eventually leave and got married, my parents continued to exert control in their lives.  It caused issues in both of their marriages, both are still married but parental priority has definitely caused some problems. 

I relate.

My ex listed my mom as one of the top two reasons for our divorce.

My sisters managed to stay married, but they married men who were still emotionally married to their own mothers. Both mother-in-laws are widows. Both sisters are now getting divorced, but have said they're divorcing their in-laws more than their husbands.

We are all emotionally squashed. Of course, we look like rock stars compared to my two brothers, who are catatonic drunken recluses, and we also look like jerks compared to my cousins, "the nice boys."  The nice boys aren't divorced and would never get divorced. My aunt is so proud that there isn't any divorce in her perfect family. Her five sons live at home and aren't married, but we just know, they wouldn't get divorced. So nice.

[nokidsmom]

9 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

If you're working, you're expected to buy things for other people, to your own detriment. 

This.   My sisters, once they started working, somehow wanted to buy some very nice gifts for my parents, even when we had other obligations to pay for, such as our share of college tuition, which BTW was something my parents required us to do.   One time, I refused to pay for an expensive anniversary gift because I had college tuition due and there was no way I could do either.  My one sister in particular was absolutely furious with me.  My other sister could barely afford her share of this gift (total: $600, $200 split 3 ways) yet agreed because she felt obligated to.   Because of me it didn't happen because neither sister had the money to cover for what would have been my share.

In recent months, my sister and I have been cleaning out my parent's house.  In going through some 50 years worth of stuff, one of the things we are coming across are the gifts that my two sisters lavished on my parents during their time at home.  Amazing all the stuff they bought for two able bodied people who made more money than either of them rather than save it for moving out.  At the time both of them got married, neither of them had money, in fact one brother in law had to pay off my sister's bills she racked up while living rent free at home.   Why, because of all the spending. including buying Mommy and Daddy stuff.

9 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

My sisters managed to stay married, but they married men who were still emotionally married to their own mothers. Both mother-in-laws are widows. Both sisters are now getting divorced, but have said they're divorcing their in-laws more than their husbands.

Interesting that both of your sisters married the same type of guy with the same type of in law issues and the similarities to the FOO situation.

9 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

My aunt is so proud that there isn't any divorce in her perfect family. Her five sons live at home and aren't married, but we just know, they wouldn't get divorced. So nice.

This is my parents.  So proud that there's no divorce in their family/cult compared to aunts and uncles who did have divorce in theirs.  It was a big thing when two of my cousins each divorced after very short marriages, my parents clearly took this to mean that my aunt and uncle had failed as parents not to mention how their daughters divorces reflected back on them.   What my parents don't know is how close my one sister came to divorcing ten years ago after catching her husband, The Perfect Son In Law in some sort of online affair.  Frankly, both Mr. No and I believe that once both sets of parents are gone and their two sons are launched, they will probably split.

[Million Children For Jesus]

14 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

At the time both of them got married, neither of them had money, in fact one brother in law had to pay off my sister's bills she racked up while living rent free at home.  

That's my sister! She lived at home until she got married, yet didn't have any money saved when she moved out. Only debt. Her then-boyfriend, future husband, was constantly bailing her out to help cover bounced checks (remember checks? Lol) and helping her with credit card and car payments. At the same time, she regularly took my moms friends out to lunch and threw my parents lavish anniversary parties. Parties, plural. Of course, everyone raved about what a generous and great daughter she was. Those nice lunches. Those great parties. She didn't have a dime saved for her own wedding. I'm sure that went on credit cards or her husband paid for it. My dad chipped in very little. He was trying to teach her how to be responsible by making her pay for her own wedding. He never blinked at the debt my sister accrued while putting on the extra special daughter charade, but then somehow paying for your own wedding on credit cards teaches fiscal responsibility? Yeahhhh... I eloped. 

ETA: weddings/tuition, anniversary gifts/anniversary parties, so many parallels  

[nokidsmom]

8 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

weddings/tuition, anniversary gifts/anniversary parties, so many parallels  

Indeed!  I am tempted to ask if you are me, lol!

The youngest sister had so much debt that my mother was co signer on her car loan.  That was after living rent free for years, she married in her mid 30s.  That car loan was the very first thing her husband paid off because even at the beginning of their marriage he could see the issues and didn't want his mother in law involved in any of their business.

This is going to sound terrible but when my parents were getting to their 50th anniversary, guess who started planning 2 years in advance?  My two sisters.  They included me in the discussion and personally I dreaded it, in part because of the whole "devoted daughter" thing (they would go completely overboard with plans and cost) but there was another issue: they wanted to exclude certain family members.  The reason was because they disapproved of these family member's lifestyles and life choices.    It was on the latter issue that I took a stand, I would not be a part of turning something that was supposed to be a celebration into making a "statement" and especially a hurtful (and completely unnecessary) one to your own family. Interesting thing happened: my folks didn't want a party after all.  I never knew why, whether it was because of my stance or not.   

On 4/7/2017 at 11:35 PM, Million Children For Jesus said:

Her five sons live at home and aren't married,

Getting back to your aunt and her unmarried sons, I just remembered a similar situation.  I recently reconnected with a friend from college who had been a bridesmaid at my wedding.  She married several years after me but I learned that her three brothers (she's the youngest of 4 and only daughter) were still at home and unmarried.  One is disabled now but the other two are working, just still at home.  Even she thinks the whole thing is sad. 

 I remember the parents being a bit weird, nice but weird.  Also Dad was a pastor.   There we go, the whole "nice" thing associated with these families.   They always seem "nice" but there's nothing "nice" about grown adults being kept from living their lives, however that is being accomplished, so parents can deal.   Because there's something going on with parents who cannot let go, be it control, fear, being unwilling to relinquish their parental roles (overidentification), maybe problems in the parent's marriage (I personally believe we were a buffer for my own parents btw) or whatever.   There's a problem(s) but it's not for the children to solve. 

[Jana814]

I get what everyone is saying. I always thought Arndt boys seemed as though they would make wonderful husbands. I am surprised that none have gotten married. 

I live at home rent free, it only been in the last few years that my pet sitting business is making money and I can afford to move out. I am now considering moving out because I have more money saved and can afford to live on my own.  

[nastyhobbitses]

I lived at home in between my time in China and grad school (in order to save for grad school). I was happy to buy groceries, cook, clean, take care of the dog, et cetera, since I was living rent-free and it was only right that I contribute to the household, and I did enjoy getting to spend more time with my family (especially because I'd been living overseas for almost two years previously), but if my parents expected me to spend every waking minute with them and expected me to spend lavish amounts of money on them (but I am happy to buy them nice gifts, I will mention -- my mom loves her some Korean beauty products), that would probably be too far.

[Carm_88]

There's nothing wrong for the average person to live at home, housing costs are skyrocketing. That being said that Arndts aren't normal, so that throws that right out the window. In a way, I wish that they could see what is being done to them. On the other hand, ignorance is bliss.

[nokidsmom]

I want to say that there's nothing wrong with staying at home especially given how hard it can be to start out.   Also understand that it's reasonable to make some contribution to the household with chores, groceries, utilities, etc.   I get it.  But what is reasonable isn't enough for a family as enmeshed as mine was or the Arndts.  They want more.  When adult children are supporting their able bodied parents to the degree that the Arndt men do, do an inordinate amount of housework as my sisters did (Mr. No called them the Family Slaves, terrible, I know, but it was that bad), focus is on what Mom and Dad will think if they move out versus forging their own lives, etc there's something wrong with that. 

Also another difference is that the adult children have no plan for the future other than going from day to day.  Now I don't know about the Arndt men, but my sisters had no plan whatsoever.   Both quit college because "it was too hard" and their lives were the same day after day, year after year for over 10 years for one sister,  14 years for the other.  I get that there's a lot of people in similar circumstances, meaning living day to day, but the combination of no long term goals to strive toward plus the enmeshed family dynamic, that's troubling

I also want to note that the frequent refrain in my family is "not doing enough". 

 

[feministxtian]

if my mother had had her way, I'd have lived at home FOREVER! I actually had to hide the fact that I was moving out from her. In her family, single women didn't move out until they married. I may have been single at the time, but I was also a mom of 2. Even then she wouldn't butt out of my life. When I moved to indiana, she would call and leave kind of creepy messages on the answering machine...and then call back asking "where were you"...Geez lady, I live 800 miles away...what the hell do you care? Yeah...it was creepy. I have to say that I'm pretty much glad she's dead...life with her was never a helluva lot of fun. 

[nokidsmom]

49 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

If my mother had had her way, I'd have lived at home FOREVER! I actually had to hide the fact that I was moving out from her.

I am firmly of the belief that heaven on earth for my parents would be keeping their daughters home forever.   It would be their own version of a nunnery.   It was just that each of us decided at some point that it wasn't the way we wanted to live regardless of the degree we made the break.

I moved out when I got married, but when I graduated college nearly two years before I made the decision to be out by 25 years of age come hell or high water.    Looking back,  if I have tried to move out as a single woman I would have had to sneak out of the house, throw the keys down the sewer and pretty much disappear.  They had a hard enough time with me moving out by getting married which with their religious views would have been the only way they could accept their daughters leaving the home.  Turns out they couldn't accept that without all kinds of promises that we would remain in close proximity, go to the same church, and pretty much let them be involved the same way as we were at home.  I couldn't accept that and refused to make any sort of promises, my sisters did to their own detriment.   I could go on but to suffice it to say I am not sorry for leaving, in fact I should have put more distance between them and I.

[feministxtian]

I got caught up in the "only child" guilt trip, never allowed to forget that my mother had lost a son (I have a brother who died shortly after birth). She NEVER paid any attention to either one of my sons. Guess she was pissed I spit out 2 boys in a row. She thought she deserved to have me "groveling" at her feet and let her keep poking her nose in my business. Oh well...I feel absolved of any guilt in hating her guts because I took care of her for SEVEN FUCKING YEARS...my reaction when she died? "Oh thank God!" and promptly got hammered off my ass on a bottle of good tequila. I see all these facebook things about "if you miss your mom in heaven"...fuck that..I'm convinced the bitch went to hell. I don't "miss" my mother at all.

[Million Children For Jesus]

2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

my reaction when she died? "Oh thank God!" and promptly got hammered off my ass on a bottle of good tequila

This is my plan for when my mom dies 

[feministxtian]

Just now, Million Children For Jesus said:

This is my plan for when my mom dies 

I don't want to "like" your post...so I'm just going to say I totally understand what's what...OK? Sending you love and strength for the journey. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

3 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I moved out when I got married, but when I graduated college nearly two years before I made the decision to be out by 25 years of age come hell or high water.    Looking back,  if I have tried to move out as a single woman I would have had to sneak out of the house, throw the keys down the sewer and pretty much disappear. 

I had to get married to leave, or at least, I felt like that was my only way out.

 

3 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I don't want to "like" your post...so I'm just going to say I totally understand what's what...OK? Sending you love and strength for the journey. 

Thank you.

I still feel suffocated. I don't pursue my goals, interests, or even my own personal style, hair style, clothes, etc. because anything my mother doesn't control sets her into hysterics. I'm worn out. I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to be my authentic self. 

[feministxtian]

18 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I still feel suffocated. I don't pursue my goals, interests, or even my own personal style, hair style, clothes, etc. because anything my mother doesn't control sets her into hysterics. I'm worn out. I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to be my authentic self. 

My mother was much the same...it took leaving my hometown, ditching "friends", and basically trying to figure out who I am starting at the age of 48. Its been 5 years and I'm just now figuring all that out...for 48 years I basically existed as an extension of her. However, I'm left with PTSD and flashbacks of seeing her comatose body in my house...and memories of some awful shit she said to me...including...of all things...how it sounds when I pee..."gee, you sound like a cow on a flat rock"...REALLY? Fuck you mother...you fucking bitch. 

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I had to get married to leave, or at least, I felt like that was my only way out.

It was by sheer luck that my way out was by getting married. I met Mr. No three months after college, when I had made my plans.  Didn't expect that to happen, it was just one of those things that clicked. I absolutely did not expect to be married when I did, I wasn't looking for it.

[Million Children For Jesus]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

My mother was much the same...it took leaving my hometown, ditching "friends", and basically trying to figure out who I am starting at the age of 48. Its been 5 years and I'm just now figuring all that out...for 48 years I basically existed as an extension of her. However, I'm left with PTSD and flashbacks of seeing her comatose body in my house...and memories of some awful shit she said to me...including...of all things...how it sounds when I pee..."gee, you sound like a cow on a flat rock"...REALLY? Fuck you mother...you fucking bitch. 

Wow! That's exactly how I feel. I definitely have PTSD.

In 2011, it hit me, "I don't have my own feelings. I don't even know how I feel about anything because I've never been allowed to have feelings, or else I was told I was awful. All I do is respond to other people's feelings exactly the way they would like me to, even if that's not how I actually feel or want to act."  My whole life was in "response mode," that came with a script. I felt fake, pigeon holed, misunderstood, lonely, and unappreciated for my efforts. In my mind, I had sacrificed my own personality to please others and not only was this never acknowledged, but I was still told I was awful and selfish. 

I sat down and started brainstorming what I liked at age 5, age 9, age 12, the years before I gave in to my mom completely. (or sisters, boyfriends, husband, total strangers, etc. I was a big time people pleaser and yet nobody was ever pleased.)  I added things I found interesting in my adult life that I wanted to do, mostly that I had read about. It took years to form a working list and I'm still prioritizing it. 6 years later, nothing has actively changed in my life. I'm still figuring out what most people figure out about themselves when they go to college. Only I'm in my 40's. It sucks to be really textbook smart, yet having to reconcile that I basically have arrested development and still can't break free from my moms psychological stronghold. 

I could write a novel called, "shitty things my mom said to me that nobody believes she said because she was a nice church lady."

Thank you for sharing. I hope I'm doing as well as you are by the time I'm 48, but my mom is still alive. This thread is giving me a little gumption, like maybe, just maybe, I will upset the balance and not wait for her to die. I'll be the honorary Arndt that fully escapes to find her authentic self. Haha 

Off Subject: The Casey Anthony story is on. The grandmother, Casey's mom, Cindy, always struck me as overbearing, possibly a narcissist. She has already said things in this interview that supports that. It's the Cindy Show. I don't know if Casey is an even bigger narcissist than Cindy, or if she just had a psychotic break from dealing with her mother, but I can smell a shitty mom from 100 yards and Cindy Anthony is a piece of work. How come that doesn't get mentioned? Nope. She's reported as a vigilant grandmother with a derelict daughter who got pregnant as a teen. Poor Cindy. I want to barf. 

[feministxtian]

@Million Children For Jesus PM me if you ever just want to talk...

[Million Children For Jesus]

2 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

@Million Children For Jesus PM me if you ever just want to talk...

Awwww, thank you. Likewise 

29 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

It was by sheer luck that my way out was by getting married. I met Mr. No three months after college, when I had made my plans.  Didn't expect that to happen, it was just one of those things that clicked. I absolutely did not expect to be married when I did, I wasn't looking for it.

I was emotionally squashed and dated idiots, so that's what I ended up with. I would have married the first guy with a running car who promised to drive me away from my parents. The kind of guy who swoops in and "takes over ownership" of girls like that aren't the nicest guys. 

[Black Aliss]

3 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

This is my plan for when my mom dies 

We had a nanny once who said that when her [very mean, very fundie] grandmother died, on the way back from the cemetery her mother began singing "Ding, dong, the witch is dead" at the top of her voice.

[wild little fox]

After many years as the family caregiver I got away. I'm 49 and it was a year ago this month. I'm SLOW training my mother not to rely on me. She held me captive with her neediness and guilt for a very long time. She is a bit more reasonable because she let me go with out any fuss. I met a nice man on Facebook several years ago and we live in another state now. 

I'm 49 years old and I don't know what it means to be my own person. its been a year and I still feel like I'm in a daze. 

 

thank you to everyone who has shared here. I really appreciate knowing I'm not alone in being enmeshed so far into my mother, who I am not capable of making happy. I, too will be happy to be off the hook when she's dead. There is no way I'm going back. I had three years of therapy after a suicide attempt because I couldn't deal with it. I hope some day to be able to not to feel so numb but feel like I'm free and alive. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

2 hours ago, wild little fox said:

After many years as the family caregiver I got away.

This makes you extremely awesome and strong. You're an inspiration. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you to everyone who has shared.

[nokidsmom]

8 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I was emotionally squashed and dated idiots, so that's what I ended up with. I would have married the first guy with a running car who promised to drive me away from my parents. The kind of guy who swoops in and "takes over ownership" of girls like that aren't the nicest guys. 

I had two relationships that could have resulted in marriage before Mr. No but so long as I was in college I didn't want to get married.   I guess that if I didn't go to college I might have.  Of the two relationships, one was definitely an idiot, the other wasn't but he was emotionally distant.    

Thanks to all who shared.   @wild little fox I remember your earlier posts about your mom.  Glad to see you got away and are making a life for yourself.  You will get there.

[JenniferJuniper]

For the past few diary entries, Daddy Rick has been listing all of the work his minions have been doing.

Seth, Jacob, Caleb, and Peter have been doing some outside work today.  They have been cutting and trimming grass, putting down mulch (around some trees), and handling one or two other things.

Today I saw Mark carrying out this key mission.  A photographer or videographer must be responsible for cameras, wires, batteries, memory cards, and more.

About half of the family is away from home, covering today’s wedding assignments.  

Jacob and Peter have been working on the land, and I think Paul is about to join them.  Mary-Elizabeth has been cleaning bathrooms.

And my favorite:

Cathy savors every moment of spring.  Today she had the pleasure of washing some windows.

Well, if it's so damn pleasurable Rick, how about you get off your ass for a few hours and help her out?

Wake up, Arndt family.  You are nothing but brainwashed free labor for your lazy father and husband.  And you will end up with nothing once he shuffles off this mortal coil.