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Safe at Home 2: The Continuing Adventures of The Arndts


choralcrusader8613

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On 3/28/2017 at 10:47 AM, church_of_dog said:

I'm not embarrassed at all to have watched/enjoyed that video.  I feel like most of what we see about the Arndts are running inside/family jokes and I completely love those.  The WTF to me is that they don't seem to have anything OTHER than inside jokes going on -- aside from the religious blog posts of course.  The whole "kids are adults now, with adult lives" part is missing.  And their earnestness is endearing although it extends to the point of silliness.  But the inside/family jokes I think are great...

PS -- I think the perennial and never-ending Vine Valley filming IS one of those family jokes!

PPS -- I once declined to date a very nice fellow who was from the midwestern US and had what I called a midwest sense of humor -- not because there was anything inherently wrong with it or him, but simply because I DIDN'T GET IT or him and felt like he didn't get me or my sense of humor, so there wasn't much feeling of connection with him.  I was constantly puzzled by what he said, constantly explaining myself or asking for explanations from him.  I find the bafflement I feel about the Arndts to be very similar.  

 

I'm from not just the Midwest but from the same area as the Arndts (occasionally see them live and in person -- I should get a sticker for this). Whatever their sense of humor is, it can't be blamed on their region. They're a little off-the-wall. Maybe their real or perceived isolation, though.
 

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51 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

And... is it weird that I'm inexplicably saddened by the waste of these kidults lives and furious at Rick and Cathy for their brainwashing and what i see as emotional abuse?

Just me? 

It is emotional abuse, they're so stunted and although, they go out in the world, it's like they're afraid. I wish the Arndts would realize that their princess isn't going to fall in their laps and maybe, the world isn't such a bad place. 

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43 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

And... is it weird that I'm inexplicably saddened by the waste of these kidults lives and furious at Rick and Cathy for their brainwashing and what i see as emotional abuse?

Just me? 

Responding with all good intents and feelings of love -- no scolding! -- in my cold, dark heart:  the more I observe these lunatics*, the more I think it has been Rick & Cathy, 2 incredibly strong-willed people, cocooning the kids early in and conditioning them to consider Mummy & Dadsie's opinions to be the one true thing.

So brainwashing, yeah -- emotional abuse, no; they've been so skillful at making the children feel like they are full partners in their parents' plan, that they feel no conflict at all in remaining childlike to this day.

i do think there's something in the water (or another essential foodstuff) to somehow dampen 12 male libidos for all this time.  Could 12 out of 12 just happen to have minimal sex drive? Highly suspicious.

But what I really am beginning to react to us the idea that the kids' lives are less than.  Yes, it's really unlikely that NO adult child wants to leave & cleave so far, but there it is.  And some people enjoy singleness and don't feel the need to be in partnership with anybody romantically at any time.  I'm reacting more to the idea that a well-fed, mobile, active, well-rounded, happy single person is automatically to be lamented because they don't have spouses, kids, paramours, etc.  

I still think Rick & Cathy are creepy ACB**.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Aren't we all, in our own special ways, "lunatics" to somebody looking at us? 

** "ACB" - short for "As Can Be," because AF is just overused these days ;) JMHO

10 minutes ago, polecat said:

I'm from not just the Midwest but from the same area as the Arndts (occasionally see them live and in person -- I should get a sticker for this). Whatever their sense of humor is, it can't be blamed on their region. They're a little off-the-wall. Maybe their real or perceived isolation, though.

We must be close to neighbors! So far I've missed them at all our shared haunts. Not sure whether to give you a sticker or a gift certificate to a good So. Illinois pub!!! 

Also, Midwest humor FTW, yeah? ;)

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1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

No...one of the sons with his own FB account locates his home in the Soulard neighborhood of St. Louis. 

So maybe some of them HAVE moved out and we only see the visits home for running family gags posted on the blog?

**hope**    **hope**    **hope**

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2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

 

We must be close to neighbors! So far I've missed them at all our shared haunts. Not sure whether to give you a sticker or a gift certificate to a good So. Illinois pub!!! 

Also, Midwest humor FTW, yeah? ;)

 

Heya, neighbor! I'm not much of a drinker, so maybe just a GC to Bobby's or White Cottage or Ted Drewe's? Because I'm all about those! lol. ;)

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3 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

It is emotional abuse, they're so stunted and although, they go out in the world, it's like they're afraid. I wish the Arndts would realize that their princess isn't going to fall in their laps and maybe, the world isn't such a bad place. 

Do you suppose Rick And Cathy are ever afraid a son will not return home to be "safe" after a work trip? Even if the Arndts go off the family compound as a pair, one could tell his brother to take a flight home, I'm staying. I wonder if any of them have ever thought about it. Or is the indoctrination too deep?

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3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

But what I really am beginning to react to us the idea that the kids' lives are less than.  Yes, it's really unlikely that NO adult child wants to leave & cleave so far, but there it is.  And some people enjoy singleness and don't feel the need to be in partnership with anybody romantically at any time.  I'm reacting more to the idea that a well-fed, mobile, active, well-rounded, happy single person is automatically to be lamented because they don't have spouses, kids, paramours, etc.  

I have no problem with people choosing to be happily single.  My concern is that the kidults haven't chosen, and that single and living at home is the default Cathy and Rick chose for them.  Because of the brainwashing, indoctrination, guilt, fear, whatever, none of the kidults have chosen to break away.

I simply cannot believe that all of them have voluntarily chosen to live at home and forgo any independent personal life. 

Everyone should have a choice on how to live. I firmly believe that none of the Arndt kids have any say whatsoever about their lives.

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I had to laugh. I went searching on Youtube for the Kids by the Dozen episode featuring the Arndts. I couldn't find it, but did watch a local news story from a few years ago. The thing that made me giggle uncontrollably: in the "related videos" on the right was Weird Al Yankovic's "White and Nerdy". Well, I guess it fits, since the Arndts are white and nerdy!

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Took a quick look at the FamTeam FB page and did a complete spit-take at the photo of Ma Arndt working out, captioned:

Quote

 

Mom is cross-training so rapidly that she is a blur!

During the workout, she is watching one of her favorite musicals -- "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers."

 

So, maybe there's hope yet?

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1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

Took a quick look at the FamTeam FB page and did a complete spit-take at the photo of Ma Arndt working out, captioned:

So, maybe there's hope yet?

Aaaaah.....whereas the six brothers abduct their brides, let's hope not! :my_biggrin: Not that way, anyhow. 

 

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm also a midwesterner. I don't know what midwestern humor is...

Oh, I think it's kinda like obscenity. You'll know it when you see...hear it.  ;-)

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51 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Oh, I think it's [midwestern humor] kinda like obscenity. You'll know it when you see...hear it.  ;-)

I dunno.  After commenting earlier about how I just didn't get the midwestern humor of the guy I knew, I googled it to see some typical examples.  About half the things I found gave me a good chuckle and I really enjoyed and appreciated the humor.  The other half, I just thought -- huh?  What's funny about that?

So I guess I can't generalize, but half is way too high a percentage to not get, for me personally, at least when it came to deciding whether to consider spending a lot of time around it.

I do feel like I enjoy the Arndt's humor, although of course I'm only assuming that they see it as humor -- if they are seriously earnest (or is that earnestly serious?) about all these things they do, that's a whole 'nuther kettle of lutefisk.

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12 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Since the "boys" go out all the time by themselves for work, they could easily have a second home somewhere which they visit as often as possible. You know a place where they could have a "normal" life.

I don't know about normal, but I can imagine them spending lots of time in a treehouse with stuffed penguins, legos, walkie-talkies, a model train set, and superhero decor.

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I'm from the Midwest.  "Midwestern humor" makes me think of the Upper Midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota), but I doubt the Arndt make jokes about ice fishing and lutefisk.

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I'm not an Arndt expert and don't know that much of their family history, but somehow have always thought Cathy is the real mastermind behind everything that goes in that family.

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1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I'm not an Arndt expert and don't know that much of their family history, but somehow have always thought Cathy is the real mastermind behind everything that goes in that family.

I'm not exactly an Arndt expert, but I'm pretty darn close to one.  During any extended disability period from work, I fell down the rabbit hole and they are the only fundies I follow now, save the occasionally peek at what nonsense J-Rod is up to.

You could be right, at least in the sense that I think Cathy is way smarter than Rick.  Seriously smarter.  And I admit I admire her organizational skills and the fact that she appears to have done a good job homeschooling all 14 kids, much of the time while pregnant or nursing not to mention the fact that she still looks great in her short white shorts pushing 60.  

It probably isn't hard for her to manipulate Rick, especially with regard to controlling the kids.  Yet, I firmly believe there is much more to just keeping everyone safe at home for Rick.  The "kids" are his meal ticket and they have been for years now.  He does no outside work, just lives in a softball and Vine Valley fantasy world while considering himself some sort of brilliant religious philosopher.    He even recently had his sons build a house for his brother.  It's a wonderful life for Rick.

So my best guess is that they are working the mind games in concert with each other.  Cathy wants her manboys safe at home with her (I haven't figured out why she'd prefer this over grandchildren) and Rick benefits in a very direct way from the in-house slave labor.   

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28 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Cathy wants her manboys safe at home with her (I haven't figured out why she'd prefer this over grandchildren) and Rick benefits in a very direct way from the in-house slave labor.   

She wouldn't be the first woman I'd met who had a weird pseudosexual jealousy of her sons. I'm not saying there's anything literally incestuous going on in that house, but I've met plenty of controlling and needy women who couldn't stand any of their sons' girlfriends or infantilized their sons to keep them dependent on their mothers well into adulthood. I even know a woman who wanted her young sons to pledge that they would never love another woman as much as her. 

Now, most of these women were not half as successful as Cathy. That's my real question--how on earth is she so thorough at this? Twelve adult sons, and not a single one has flown the coop? Two, even three, I could understand. But TWELVE? 

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1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Now, most of these women were not half as successful as Cathy. That's my real question--how on earth is she so thorough at this? Twelve adult sons, and not a single one has flown the coop? Two, even three, I could understand. But TWELVE? 

To be fair, it's only 11 adult sons.  Number 12 is not quite 17.

To the bolded - That woman is thorough at everything she does.  One of the manboys once said she'd have made an amazing CEO if she'd decided to skip the family thing (the two being mutually exclusive in their world, of course.)  My guess is that when Cathy sets out to accomplish something, she succeeds.  With Rick assisting for his own reasons, the two of them have effectively shut down any any desire for independence in their twelve adult offspring.  Remarkable stuff.

 

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1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I've met plenty of controlling and needy women who couldn't stand any of their sons' girlfriends or infantilized their sons to keep them dependent on their mothers well into adulthood. I even know a woman who wanted her young sons to pledge that they would never love another woman as much as her. 

Totally agree. I've met these women and have know at least 2 (and suspect 1-2 more) who forced their sons to promise they would never love another woman as much as they love mom.

I had a close girlfriend who divorced her hubby, not because he was a mama's boy per se, but because her MIL was truly the other woman in their relationship. Her MIL undermined her at every turn and her husband supported his mother because 1) she was a widow and 2) he was the only boy (2 sisters) and had been "the man of the family" since he was 17. And because he was still "the man of the family" even after marriage, the MIL expected him to put the family first  It didn't help that they were mega rich and the MIL controlled the money and the family business.  It was a serious shame because my girlfriend truly loved the guy.

Now that I write this it sounds like a LIfetime movie.

I think Cathy and Rick expect the 11.5/12 kidults to always, always, always  put the family first above anything else. That and the boys know they are the family's only support.  If they all move away -- who keeps Rick in the style to which he is accustomed?  It's not like Rick would get a job (eeeek, oh no) or anything.

Edited to add:  What did Rick do (work) before he was a leech?

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1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

What did Rick do (work) before he was a leech?

I think he was a court reporter (stenographer).  It seems to be a dying field of work.

Did the Arndts inherit money?  They've always seemed to have plenty of expensive toys and that huge house.  It's hard to see how they managed before the man-boys were old enough to work.

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4 hours ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I'm not an Arndt expert and don't know that much of their family history, but somehow have always thought Cathy is the real mastermind behind everything that goes in that family.

I think that is true of all the fundies. The women say they are submissive with doe eyes (Kelly, Me'chelle, Anna, Pris), defer to their husband's ministry (Pris, J'Rod & Zsu), give ego strokes to the husband and humble brag at their own submission (Lori & Debi Pearl), I think behind the scenes all the women are pulling the strings. It seems more women are more religious than men (I don't have a study to back that up but it just seems like women seem to pull the men to church more than vice versa).

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8 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

 

I think Cathy and Rick expect the 11.5/12 kidults to always, always, always  put the family first above anything else. That and the boys know they are the family's only support.  If they all move away -- who keeps Rick in the style to which he is accustomed?  It's not like Rick would get a job (eeeek, oh no) or anything.

 

But couldn't they get married or even just move out on their own and still pitch in financially if their parents really needed it? (Whether they actually need the help or not is a different issue...)

Even if, in their minds, Daddy dearest can't/shouldn't work and it's the boys responsibility somehow to support the family...there are enough of them that they should each be able to contribute a small amount to keep Rick and Cathy going while also living their own damn lives.

 

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Warning: Long. Sorry.

I had never heard of the Arndts until I started lurking on FJ, and they immediately fascinated me because my aunt and my mother are just as nuts as Ma Arndt. I lurked their website bios, but didn't go down the rabbit hole beyond that. 

NONE of my mother or aunt's numerous sons are married and ALL still live at home. Everyone will tell you that my mom and aunt are the nicest people, and my cousins are "the nicest boys." All of the "nicest BOYS," are in their 30's and 40's. They don't give their entire paychecks to their parents, just enough to make it impossible to save any money and leave. They have good jobs that pay bills, but not great jobs that buy houses or raise families. My aunt made sure of that. No college. It's too dangerous, too hard, and too expensive. She planted the seeds of fear and self doubt early. She loves them so much, going to college would cause her too much stress, expense, and worry. (Eye roll)

Plus, they will never stop contributing or leave because they are "nice boys" who like helping... and their mothers would emotionally unravel and lose their shit if they lost control, which none of the nice boys want to deal with because they're already emotionally squashed and don't want to abandon their brothers or be ostracized. Nobody will come right and say that last part. (Except me). 

Years ago, I told my family that my aunt was nuts and I've been the black sheep ever since. Nobody will hear of it. She's never done anything "wrong," so to speak. Nice, little church lady with a clean house and nice boys. Her kids are so nice. They all just adore their mother. Only a total asshole would criticize such a nice lady who did such a great job raising nice boys. These boys have never done anything wrong. There's nothing to directly criticize or blame on the parents.

Sometimes people ask why none of the boys are married, and other people say, "oh, they're just nice boys, it's hard to find a nice girl, they're probably too nice or too shy." Or, they're busy working and helping their mom, because they're so nice. Their entire identities and value are wrapped up in being nice and helping their mom. 

I told a relative once, "They aren't married because their mothers are too much work. You can have a mom or a wife, but not both." She laughed. I never got invited to anything again. Instead, I get shit talked about me to discredit anything I say. I'm divorced, so in my family that means I'm not nice, and this means nothing I say should be believed. If I say anything is amiss with my aunt or mother, I get called a liar, difficult, crazy, and "that's why you're divorced because of your attitude, nobody can live with you." Kill The Messenger! If you challenge a woman like Ma Arndt, you are asking for psychological warfare. 

This video was the first Arndt video I ever watched, and I have to say, I was really afraid to press play because I was expecting blatant weirdness. They aren't weird to me. A little boring, but not criminal. I laughed when I first saw the penguin on the drone and I'm not even from the Midwest, so I don't know about Midwest humor. Certainly they're not anywhere near as weird as Jim Bob, who has major ick factor, and who I think is weird to hell and back. Evil weird. (My cousins aren't blatantly weird either. You can get a beer with them, have lunch, or go golfing, and have fun. You would wonder why they had never been married. Polite, level-headed, informed, charming, etc.)

When Ma Arndt walked out on the porch and asked what they were doing, I felt the anger and irritation that I feel towards my mom and aunt. They interject themselves into every f***ing little thing in their sons' lives. You can't even sit at your truck without them asking what, why, when, where, who, how. They will even ask why the cat did something. Do I look like Dr. Doolittle? No, I don't. 

My mom and aunt are constantly alarmed. They constantly need to stop what is happening because no matter what anyone is doing, it needs to stop, and in their minds, they are doing their motherly duty to prevent anyone from getting hurt. What they prevent is anyone from living. After awhile, it becomes more work than it's worth to make friends or have a life, and everyone stops trying. Being as close to socially catatonic as possible is everyone's goal because it keeps their mothers quiet. It's only okay to socialize with family. Except me, lol. I might plant ideas in your head.

Yes, my cousins have had girlfriends on the sly. I suspect the Arndts do, too. (They can't let their mom know. It would probably cause her to worry and nice boys don't worry their mothers.) The few girls that did come around for my cousins were evaluated under a microscope and ran for the hills. No matter what girl/woman they brought around, there would have been something for my aunt to worry about. Too educated, too uneducated, too skinny, too fat, lives too far, works too much, her parents are too wealthy, she's too spoiled, her parents are too poor, she must be traumatized, she'll have issues, God forbid her parents are divorced, she's a lost cause. Of course, it's only because my mom and aunt are so nice and care so much because they're so great, that's why they worry. (<sarcasm) They actually get praised for this shit. 

In real life, I don't get the validation like I read on the FJ board. I'm alone in my belief that something is wrong with my aunt and mother who feed on praise for being dedicated mothers, who infantilize their sons so they can continue being praised for being dedicated mothers, (who don't have two shits to give about being grandmothers, it's mom praise they crave), and who micromanage their sons into submission and isolation, so they can get their mom praise fixes met, like "mom praise junkies."

It reminds me of Munchausens. I say this because a woman from church once told me that my mother reminded her of her husband's first wife, who was diagnosed with Munchausens by Proxy. Okay, so exactly one person doesn't think I'm lying when I say my mother, "the sweetest lady in town," isn't all that sweet. Both my mother and aunt will go to great lengths for sympathy, where as Ma Arndt seems very capable. My mom and aunt are perpetual damsels in distress.

The moment with Ma Arndt on the porch is the kind of thing most people don't notice, but after living with it, and knowing what it's about, I can't stand it. However, if in a real life situation, I were to say something about Ma Arndt being controlling or nosy, or even too nervous, the common response is that there wasn't anything wrong with Ma Arndt's behavior. I would be accused of being irritable. She was just asking a question, right? She was just being thoughtful or caring or nice. No! That's not what she was being. At all! She was being a control freak and when you have every move you make controlled, you stop making moves. 

BTW, all of us girls got out. We all moved away and got married. (Most of us married total assholes, who if pushed would confront our mothers, which none of us ever really did/do.) It's only the boys that can't leave. I have my theory on this. We took attention away from our mothers. We were cute. People liked us. We got good grades. We were popular. They hated it! Every accomplishment I ever had pissed my mom off. Honor roll? I got yelled at. "Oh it's all about you, isn't it?!" I was an over achiever for a long time because I heard nice things from my teachers. My mom told me that my friends hated me, that college was for "other people," etc. She seethed when I got job offers. She wouldn't tell her friends when I got pregnant. When I accomplished something, she cried to people that I was being difficult and out of control. The only time I got mentioned without hostility is when I got sick or in a car accident, and my mom got sympathy for that. I feel like I left a cult, but at least I'm a girl and could marry my way out. The boys are stuck. 

My brothers gave up completely and live as recluses. I think my cousins are waiting for my aunt to die to start their lives and/or get married, but she isn't even sick. Ma Arndt is intelligent. Intelligence is linked to longevity. She could have another 40+ years to go, so I hope her "boys" aren't waiting for her to keel over to start living.

That's my rant. This is probably why I have fundie fascination, even though we aren't fundies. 

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OMG Million Children.  Hugs from me and so glad you and your girl cousins got out.  Just in case no one else tells you -- you are a smart, brave, accomplished woman who managed to overcome a really toxic upbringing and have a full life in spite of it.

Your mom and aunt are monsters -- they just hide it so no one can see it..  I might even arm chair shrink and say there is something mentally wrong with them  But then you know that.  It is so sad that the rest of the family and the town cannot see beneath the veneer of sweet and realize that a loving, caring, sweet, nice mother doesn't stunt and twist her sons' lives.  They are not sweet at all, but a manipulative controlling succubus who is smart enough to do it in a soft voice with a smile on her face.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I think he was a court reporter (stenographer).  It seems to be a dying field of work.

Did the Arndts inherit money?  They've always seemed to have plenty of expensive toys and that huge house.  It's hard to see how they managed before the man-boys were old enough to work.

Somewhere on here it says they did.

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