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marmalade
7 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

The people magazine article posted in the last thread trying to sell the redemption story makes me think that they're thinking about having Josh back on the show, and will make a decision based on the reaction to the story.

The People article was just a rehash of events with no new content beyond the blog post. 

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I don't really understand why everyone is happy that it is a boy. Their cult is as harmful to men as to women. Being a man, you are under pressure to provide for a wife and her 10+ kids, and you

I think the fact that Josh set up 2 accounts on a cheating website and admits being unfaithful is pretty solid evidence.

Amen on the entitlement. Josh was told all his life that the sun shone out of his ass. He was the firstborn male, he got to go hang out with his dad at the State Capitol, he could molest his sisters a

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BabyBottlePop

If they did bring Josh back I wonder what he would be like on camera. He's so annoyingly snug in the show. I watched his wedding episode post scandal and literally couldn't look when he talked, he was so smarmy. I can't imagine him reserved and not uppity about himself, but he has gone down a few pegs so... it might be interesting to see a different side of him. 

To be honest though, I don't like the show still being on and wish it were gone. 

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Mela99

The next step is them starting their own Christian marriage counseling service and making rounds of all the conferences.... and a book. 

Cause how ELSE is Smuggy gonna make a living?

Edited by Mela99
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marmalade

How many people is Boob directly supporting now? I'd count JD as a half, since I imagine a lot of his jobs originate from Pops. So, a wife, 18 kids (I'm giving Jeremy benefit of the doubt, but they are also making show/People money, so maybe subtract another half?), three spouses, 8 grandkids with two on the way (probably 3...can't leave out Jinger...maybe even 5 if Joy produces early and Joe/Kendra have a honeymoon baby). Definitely one, but possibly two more spouses to support...does Austin flip his own houses or work for Boob? Given that the bedroom of the Mold House has gray walls, and they're asking for gray stuff on the registry, is this a hint that J/A are moving into the Modle House while B/J move up to the Pool House? I'll reduce Joy to a half if they end up living/working at the Family Camp. 

At any rate, by the end of the year, 33 known and maybe 6 more babies to add on by this time next year (either born or expecting). Yes, Jessa could easily be knocked up again by the end of the year. 

So much for leave and cleave. 

Edited by marmalade
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VeganCupcake
5 hours ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Did Josh actually sleep with someone? I thought the porn star eventually admitted to her story being fabricated. I always thought Josh's infidelity was his porn addiction and the Ashley Madison accounts. I didn't think he went as far as having sex with someone else!

Would they have thought it was serious enough to send him to rehab if it was just porn viewing and the Ashley Madison accounts? Then again it is the Duggars. Maybe he was messaging cam girls or something like Shay Carl. The Danica dillon thing…would she really be bold enough to go in television interviews talking about him if she had never even met or communicated with him? Where would she even get the idea? If it's a lie that they met up, then maybe they were perhaps chatting online? Who knows…

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marmalade

Joshley's account was a mixture of little boy's sexual fantasies (like tub baths) and straight-up wanting submission from his partner. 

I am willing to believe that he did meet up with Danica, but the sex was nothing like she claimed. It was probably boring missionary.

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Nikedagain?
42 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

If they did bring Josh back I wonder what he would be like on camera. He's so annoyingly snug in the show. I watched his wedding episode post scandal and literally couldn't look when he talked, he was so smarmy. I can't imagine him reserved and not uppity about himself, but he has gone down a few pegs so... it might be interesting to see a different side of him. 

To be honest though, I don't like the show still being on and wish it were gone. 

Didn't you LOVE his serenade?! 

 

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VeganCupcake
Just now, Nikedagain? said:

Didn't you LOVE his serenade?! 

 

LMAO! "The Loyalty Song" how ironic. 

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Carm_88
2 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

Didn't you LOVE his serenade?! 

 

I just cringed. The second hand embarrassment was strong with that one! 

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marmalade

I cringed the first time I heard him sing it when the episode originally aired. I pictured my husband singing that to me, and my eyes rolled so far back into my head that they fell down my nasal passages. 

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Mela99
22 minutes ago, marmalade said:

How many people is Boob directly supporting now? I'd count JD as a half, since I imagine a lot of his jobs originate from Pops. So, a wife, 18 kids (I'm giving Jeremy benefit of the doubt, but they are also making show/People money, so maybe subtract another half?), three spouses, 8 grandkids with two on the way (probably 3...can't leave out Jinger...maybe even 5 if Joy produces early and Joe/Kendra have a honeymoon baby). Definitely one, but possibly two more spouses to support...does Austin flip his own houses or work for Boob? Given that the bedroom of the Mold House has gray walls, and they're asking for gray stuff on the registry, is this a hint that J/A are moving into the Modle House while B/J move up to the Pool House? I'll reduce Joy to a half if they end up living/working at the Family Camp. 

At any rate, by the end of the year, 33 known and maybe 6 more babies to add on by this time next year (either born or expecting). Yes, Jessa could easily be knocked up again by the end of the year. 

So much for leave and cleave. 

I would have thought Joy and Austin would move to Fort Rock so her new in laws can make more money off the Duggar name

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Cleopatra7
25 minutes ago, marmalade said:

How many people is Boob directly supporting now? I'd count JD as a half, since I imagine a lot of his jobs originate from Pops. So, a wife, 18 kids (I'm giving Jeremy benefit of the doubt, but they are also making show/People money, so maybe subtract another half?), three spouses, 8 grandkids with two on the way (probably 3...can't leave out Jinger...maybe even 4 if Joy produces early on). Possibly two more spouses...does Austin flip his own houses or work for Boob? Given that the bedroom of the Mold House has gray walls, and they're asking for gray stuff on the registry, is this a hint that J/A are moving into the Modle House while B/J move up to the Pool House? I'll reduce Joy to a half if they end up living/working at the Family Camp. 

At any rate, by the end of the year, 33 known and possibly 3 more babies to add on. Yes, Jessa could easily be knocked up again by the end of the year. 

So much for leave and cleave. 

It seems like much of the appeal for quiverfull/patriarchy is the idea of being able to micromanage one's children and their spouses. Recall that in the Bible, all of Jacob's children and their children remained under his control with him as supreme patriarch. Similarly, the Duggars are supposed to live under the constant surveillance of JB. I just don't see how.this lifestyle is sustainable into the long-run; the show has to end eventually and the leghumpers will move onto the next Christian sad.

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marmalade

I just have Mechelle's "Leave and cleave, baby!" from the Smuggar wedding episode ringing in my ears everytime we discuss how many people Boob is actually supporting, either through flipping houses, used cars, or TLC. Because let's face it, Jill, Jessa, and now Jinger have the same agent/PR staff as Boob. Does anyone really think they went out and found their own people? Joy and Joe will predictably fall in line. 

In conclusion, I agree that this lifestyle isn't sustainable, even if one has a TV show. 

Edited by marmalade
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mizandry
4 hours ago, immodest_countenance said:

@elvirajane

Yes, but you are missing one crucial fact. This only applies to men and boys who have an very deep innate sense of integrity and self-awareness. All you said is true, but remember that this cult also creates a worldview where nothing is ever the man's fault; there is always someone else to blame.

  • You hit your wife and degrade and belittle her; SHE must not be submitting enough. Her fault. 
  • You have lustful thoughts about the neighbor's three-year old girl? SHE was dressed in a way that was provocative. Parents fault. Toddlers Fault. 
  • You molest your sisters of various ages on multiple occasions? THEY should have been dressed in a way that didn't temp you. Also your parents should do more to restrict your access to them. Sisters fault. Parents Fault. 
  • You cheat on your pregnant wife habitually for many years. SHE wasn't paying enough attention to you or satisfying your sexual needs. Those OTHER WOMEN were of the world and will seduce you with their sensual modern dress and sexual liberation. SATAN built a fortress in your heart.  Wife's fault. Worldly Women's fault. Satan's fault. 

When you are brought up thinking that you have absolutely no willpower or choice over your actions, it creates a deeply ingrained idea that nothing is ever your fault. This is why we see such high rates of abuse in these fundamentalist circles. Most don't have the tools to even question it, and honestly why would you? If you are brought up with no sense of personal responsibility, why would you seek out to un-absolve  yourself from all your personal failings. 

So yes, the this cult damages men just as much as women, because it enables the men to become abusers. Not all of course, but unless they are born with a high sense of empathy, integrity, and critical thinking (because their philosophy undermines every one of these principles), they go through life without an ounce of personal responsibility or ownership to their actions. They are victims of the way they were brought up, but it doesn't excuse the abuse they inflict on others. 

YES. Perfectly stated, the bolded especially imo.

This really can't be said enough -- and I think it's why I get so uncomfortable discussing the ways in which this cult fucks men up as well: not because I think they have it great, but because there is WAY more room for men to actually fail at their convictions and be products of a shitty, toxic upbringing than anyone else is allowed; there is so much more room for men to be sinful humans who respond poorly to this kind of religious indoctrination without having to fully deal with the shame and social exiling that would surely come for any woman who didn't toe the right community Christian lines and began to act out in the same way. There is a seemingly endless desire to forgive men who "sin" as long as they profess a love for Jesus and play the right games for awhile... which is why they continue to do this kind of double-life bullcrap for as long as possible. There's a hell of a lot more opportunity to get back up on your feet as a man in this cult, whether it's to reintegrate into your religious group after fucking the charade up or just leaving it all together. Josh, for example, certainly has more of a choice in how he will deal with the state of his life than Anna does in this cult. Women are far more fucked in every conceivable way and, as a result, are even less equipped to deal with the pitfalls... and no matter what, they will be held the most responsible for picking up the pieces where it really counts. 

Edited by mizandry
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send*the*ferrets
3 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

He'd have to officially leave her or she'd have to throw him out. I mean, I just can't imagine 3.0.  Back on Ashley Madison? 

I predict...

Jinger Pregnant

Joe and Kendra Engagement 

Jana Courting

John-David Courting. 

M5 birth

Jill Birth

Jessa Pregnant. 

Josh has been forgiven for *molesting a 5 year old* by his parents/wife. I absolutely think he will do something again. 

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season of life

It saddens me. Anna will be stuck in this marriage forever. Her kids are going to be brainwashed about so much crap because their dad is a jerk and their mom has been raised to obey her man.

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coffeebean7
6 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

To be fair, I never found out the genders till my anatomy scans around 16/18 weeks.  I got great prenatal care, and was saying both a regular ob and a high risk ob for my second pregnancy.  I got all kinds of blood work done early on.  But the gender test would have been out of pocket and pricey, not 100% accurate (or even close).  It's not a test that's offered as standard care, you have to request it.  And pregnancy goes by so quickly, especially 2nd and subsequent pregnancies, that waiting a few extra weeks to find out at insurance's expense wasn't a big deal. Finding out the gender at 13 weeks offered no health benefits to me or baby, and would have required yet another trip to the lab for another blood draw.

NIPT tests (Harmony, Verifi, Progenity..) are over 99% accurate.  The point of the test is not to find out the sex, they are to test for things like Down Syndrone. The sex info is just a bonus if you want to know. 

But yes, they can be very expensive and not every OB requests them for every patient. You can definitely have good prenatal care without a NIPT test. I would be shocked if Anna Duggar did the test but my original post was just to let people know that just because she knows the sex does not mean she is about 20 weeks. Again, I found out I was having a boy at 12 weeks with NIPT done at 10w.

 

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quiverofdoubt
5 minutes ago, coffeebean7 said:

NIPT tests (Harmony, Verifi, Progenity..) are over 99% accurate.  The point of the test is not to find out the sex, they are to test for things like Down Syndrone. The sex info is just a bonus if you want to know. 

But yes, they can be very expensive and not every OB requests them for every patient. You can definitely have good parental care without a NIPT test. I would be shocked if Anna Duggar did the test but my original post was just to let people know that just because she knows the sex does not mean she is about 20 weeks. Again, I found out I was having a boy at 12 weeks with NIPT done at 10w.

 

i replied to a similar comment earlier- i did do the genetic testing for chromosome disorders, but the gender test wasn't part of it or offered to me.  i was told i'd have to do that separately and insurance wouldn't cover.  I don't think it's offered to everybody yet.  And i was given intense prenatal my second time around, due to various risk factors. 

but you're right, it would be possible for her to fine out earlier than 20 weeks, but based on her and her family history of poor prenatal care, i doubt she would.

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QuiverFullofBooks

Saying "beauty comes from ashes" about a baby conceived in marriage is just so pathetically sad. It's like something a rape victim who decided to keep the baby would say.

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Stephanie66

Are we guessing names yet? Matthew? Micah is probably too close to Michael. 

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eleanora3
41 minutes ago, Stephanie66 said:

Are we guessing names yet? Matthew? Micah is probably too close to Michael. 

I'd guess Matthew or Malachi

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PainfullyAware

On the gender issue - of course it seems clear that the subaltern submissive gender is more oppressed than the dominant, powerful gender. This is a patriarchy after all. But I agree that it's too simplistic to assume there are no negative consequences for men, especially psychologically or for identity. It's a toxic version of masculinity, which suggests virulent sexuality, power and even aggression (in the Growing up Duggar book they talk about monitoring JB's anger). This is kept in control via a constant internal battle against Satan (a total repression of self). In this conformist community, shaming is a primary means of keeping everyone in line. So men live in a state of tension battling almost-unontrollable urges (or constantly afraid of them arising) yet where they would face intense judgement for not conforming or for failing and possible excommunication from everyone they know. This is just so unhealthy. 

I also have a personal pet peeves when feminism doesn't emphasizes the joys and benefits of equal participation by both genders in traditionally feminine activities (reproductive labour) as well as traditionally masculine (productive). Meaning, everyone should be able to revel in being a parent, in caregiving (nurturing), in home making, in emotional connection, and empathy, if they so choose. Just like in everyone should be able to join in the workforce and leadership positions if they choose. If men aren't allowed to participate in "feminine" activities, they lose out too. Perhaps not as consequentially (the loss isn't oppressive to men) but still detrimentally.

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mizandry
2 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

I'd guess Matthew or Malachi

Yeah, Matthew seems like the most obvious Josh and Anna go-to for me -- I'm with you on that guess.

I can't think of many other M names for impending Christian Warribros, and I suspect that they'll be most likely to go for an Ma- name, if only to continue the current vowel pattern they've got going. They also seem to go for more regionally traditional names so... eh, okay Matthew. Be born or whatever. 

And once again, I'm left with so many naming "what ifs" were this child to be presumed a lady... Michelle would be my guess, but Mercy or Miracle would be close contenders.

Other Ma- boy names:
Mason
Manson 
Man Bob
Marvin
Marriage Saved

:shrug:

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Karma

I wonder if the other siblings will post the usual saccharine  congratulations videos?

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