Anna and the M Kids Pt 9: M5 Expected

[AnnaRuk09]

3 hours ago, ScorpiousMalfoy said:

Well, if they had a Jana courtship, I suppose the ratings would be super high! She seems to be almost everyone's favourite. But I guess we'd know something by now.

Without a doubt TLC can't wait for that day. But I just hope to God she gives a big fat NO to them filming her relationship she and life. Jana seems like the only one that wouldn't be interested with the filming crap. Especially if her future bf/husband doesn't want them filming their lives as well. 

2 hours ago, CorbinsMommy said:

I still can't believe Josh managed to get someone else to sleep with him... sometimes I think no one could possibly do that with him and they consider the porn addiction to be the cheating.... but I doubt it.

Did Josh actually sleep with someone? I thought the porn star eventually admitted to her story being fabricated. I always thought Josh's infidelity was his porn addiction and the Ashley Madison accounts. I didn't think he went as far as having sex with someone else!

[immodest_countenance]

Just catching up ... how tragic for Anna, her Children, and even Josh. While some of you might think "how does she stand to even look at him, much less allow him in her bed", I get why she wants more children. Children love you and make you feel needed. Pregnancy gives you attention and support from your family and friends. It's sad because Anna probably truly believes that this child is sign of God's blessing and that they are on the right track for saving their broken marriage; when almost every expert, study, or therapist will tell you that bringing a new child to save a relationship is a recipe for disaster. 

Its tragic for her children, because now here is another factor that will take their mother's love and attention away and add to their father's ongoing stress. Children are smarter than they seem and see the cracks of a failing marriage. It's stressful for them to see people they depend on for emotional and physical needs to be so emotionally frail themselves due to their own toxic relationships and baggage. These kids NEED stability right now, and a new baby does NOT create a more stable environment to help the older (but still very young) children.

And lastly it's tragic for Josh because nothing has changed, and he is completely trapped. YES these are products from all his own choices, but he is very much a victim of his upbringing. Josh didn't just have a porn addiction, a drunken one-time, one night stand, or even ongoing monogamous affair with a single other woman; he was a serial cheater that got worse as Anna had more children. Bringing another another child into the mix wont help. Chances are he's going to feel more trapped than ever, and because of how his family has responded to his scandals, it's going to enable him to keep hurting other people with because of his cowardice to make the right decision and inability to properly outlet stress and other negative feelings. 

[elvirajane]

35 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

 

They already know it's a boy (thank good it's a boy!), so Anna must be at least 16-18 weeks along, if not more. My prediction that Anna is due before Jill is might be true. Also the prediction of there being 4 new grand-Duggars could be true as well, if Jinger is pregnant.

It will be at least 3 grand-sons in 2017. If Jinger is pregnant with her first I hope it's a son, too.

 

I don't really understand why everyone is happy that it is a boy. Their cult is as harmful to men as to women.

Being a man, you are under pressure to provide for a wife and her 10+ kids, and you get no education so unless you have a brilliant business idea, good luck.

Your sexual desires are all sinful and bad, except when you need to procreate. Oh, but your wife has been told that being desirable and proactive in her sex life is bad, so you basically serve as an impregnator and that is it. Also, she has been sexually repressed her whole life so probably does not even enjoy anything sexual. Everyone thinks you are a sexual monster that gets uncontrollably aroused when he sees knees or shoulders, even on a toddler.

Your wife is always pregnant or caring for babies and probably not as horny as you are. You are forbidden from seeking sexual relief unless it is to impregnate her once more. You know that she has been taught to be always "joyfully available" - this means no seduction games, no flirting with your wife. Anytime you want it, you have it. Are you even desirable for her? You will never find out, since she will never say "yes" because she wants to have sex with you, but only because she has been taught to. 

You are robbed of precious relationships with your children because you can't even change the diaper of your newborn daughter without being accused of being aroused by it (as per Gothard teachings). You are probably the disciplinarian in the house, which is not really fun considering the kind of discipline the Pearls promote.

As head of the house, you have the final say about everything. But when your financial situation goes south, you are the one responsible. Your daughters look up to you to veto their boyfriends, except you know as little as them about any kind of relationship. Suppose you meet a young man that is interested in missionary work. You suggest him to your daughter, who is also interested in missionary work. They hit if off, except 3 years later your favourite daughter is obviously miserable and also in a different country with no medical care with a high risk pregnancy. 

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone to walk with you and help you in this life? That is what your wife is for. Except you were married off to a good fundie girl whose emotional development has been halted by her parents at the age of 12 years old. She may wait for you with a warm meal, but she is completely dependent on you. You can't work without her showing up with her sister because she missed you. You can't leave home without her obsessing about your child being kidnapped even though you live in a neighbourhood specially built for white people and with military protection. You can't confide in her. You can't ask her for help. It is like being a single parent, except your child will never grow up and has itself a kid every year or so.

 

Sure, you could leave. But if you leave, your wife and your children will burn in hell. That's worse than having them live in poverty, right? You are the leader. Even if your wife would technically be forced to follow you if you decide to become an evil atheist, you wouldn't drag her and your kids to hell with you, right? Right.

 

The life of a fundie man has nothing to envy either.

[GotCaughtDancing]

While it might not be great to be either sex in fundieville, being a male is still the better option.

[CorbinsMommy]

18 minutes ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Did Josh actually sleep with someone? I thought the porn star eventually admitted to her story being fabricated. I always thought Josh's infidelity was his porn addiction and the Ashley Madison accounts. I didn't think he went as far as having sex with someone else!

I hope it was just the porn addiction.  There is so much being said about it I can't keep up.

[elvirajane]

I think in FundieVille, watching porn once a week is already an addiction.

He did pay for an additional premium account "affair guaranteed" which suggests he was really desperate to see someone else.

[actuallyjessica]

9 minutes ago, elvirajane said:

I don't really understand why everyone is happy that it is a boy. Their cult is as harmful to men as to women.

<SNIPPED>

 

The life of a fundie man has nothing to envy either.

well said! i wish i could 'like' this post more than once.

[JMO]

3 hours ago, coffeebean7 said:

You can find out the sex of your baby really early now with genetic testing (Harmony, Verifi, etc.). The test can be drawn at 10 weeks and results take 1-2 weeks. 

This is definitely true but considering the lack of prenatal care she got in the last 3 pregnancies and the fact that she is low risk she probably found out the same way all the rest of the Duggars did. Went to a for profit center at 18-20 weeks and paid for an ultrasound.  The only fundie I've seen that we can say did early testing was Erin Paine. She knew she was having a girl at 13 weeks. But she was seeing an OB and is very high risk. 

[Georgiana]

@elvirajane, a good example is the difference between JD and Jana:

JD is able to go out and build an adult-ish life on his own. He can start businesses. Own homes. Travel/stay home with a bit more freedom. He's held back, sure, but overall his life and the things he is allowed to do are pretty similar to secular kids his age.  

Jana, on the other hand, is not able to live as an adult until she is married.  Her role is to babysit her siblings, help around the house, and occasionally go help her married family members.  She's basically stuck in the life of a 16 year old.  

Men, like Gothard and some other famous IBLP figures, can build respectable lives before they get married.  They can live their own adult lives and have the option to marry late or not at all.

Women, on the other hand, are completely defined by their marriage.  Their only option is to live an extended teenage-hood until they get married.  Unmarried women cannot live their own lives: they can only serve their parents and married siblings. 

[elvirajane]

@Georgiana

I agree that JD has far more freedom than Jana, but my point was that his view of sex and romantic relationships has also been destroyed by the cult. He will probably never have a healthy, equal-to-equal relationship with a woman. 

He was hit hard by Josh's scandals and feels like he has to live up the Gothard ideals even more to serve as an example for his siblings. As a healthy male, he probably has his own desires that he tries to repress. 

Unlike Jana, who can seek support from her mother and sisters, JD can't. Males do not have feelings and have to be tough. 

So yeah, while JD opened his own business, I don't think that compensates everything else. I would agree that females have it slightly worse, but I wouldn't rejoice that Anna's kid is a boy either. 

[GreyhoundFan]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

On the last thread someone suggested that Michelle would blame Anna for having fewer kids than she did. I don't think so. Michelle knows that her fertility is off-the-charts abnormal and is proud of it. Besides, she knows that Josh is the one who is less enthusiastic about having a big family.

I didn't read the last several pates of the previous thread, but I disagree. In Duggarland, God is in charge, and if God doesn't see fit to send you an endless supply of "blessings", there must be something wrong with you. Also, Michelle would never think badly of her goldenboy Josh. If Anna doesn't pop out at least one blessing every two years until she's in her 40s, I would wager she'd get quite a bit of side-eye from Michelle. I bet there was a chapter at Josh's Jesus rehab that brainwashed him into acting enthused about a huge family.

As has been written by so many others, I knew it was inevitable, but it's still sad. No child should be born with a job (to quote Dr. Phil), and being the "redemption baby" is a tall order.

[quiverofdoubt]

34 minutes ago, JMO said:

This is definitely true but considering the lack of prenatal care she got in the last 3 pregnancies and the fact that she is low risk she probably found out the same way all the rest of the Duggars did. Went to a for profit center at 18-20 weeks and paid for an ultrasound.  The only fundie I've seen that we can say did early testing was Erin Paine. She knew she was having a girl at 13 weeks. But she was seeing an OB and is very high risk. 

To be fair, I never found out the genders till my anatomy scans around 16/18 weeks.  I got great prenatal care, and was saying both a regular ob and a high risk ob for my second pregnancy.  I got all kinds of blood work done early on.  But the gender test would have been out of pocket and pricey, not 100% accurate (or even close).  It's not a test that's offered as standard care, you have to request it.  And pregnancy goes by so quickly, especially 2nd and subsequent pregnancies, that waiting a few extra weeks to find out at insurance's expense wasn't a big deal. Finding out the gender at 13 weeks offered no health benefits to me or baby, and would have required yet another trip to the lab for another blood draw.

[Snarkle Motion]

27 minutes ago, elvirajane said:

@Georgiana

I agree that JD has far more freedom than Jana, but my point was that his view of sex and romantic relationships has also been destroyed by the cult. He will probably never have a healthy, equal-to-equal relationship with a woman. 

He was hit hard by Josh's scandals and feels like he has to live up the Gothard ideals even more to serve as an example for his siblings. As a healthy male, he probably has his own desires that he tries to repress. 

Unlike Jana, who can seek support from her mother and sisters, JD can't. Males do not have feelings and have to be tough. 

So yeah, while JD opened his own business, I don't think that compensates everything else. I would agree that females have it slightly worse, but I wouldn't rejoice that Anna's kid is a boy either. 

The cult is toxic to men in that it messes up their views on sex and I do think puts a ton of pressure on them to be providers and masculine and straight. But JD has the ability to leave. Jana does not. Her options compared to her brothers aren't comparable.

[immodest_countenance]

@elvirajane

Yes, but you are missing one crucial fact. This only applies to men and boys who have an very deep innate sense of integrity and self-awareness. All you said is true, but remember that this cult also creates a worldview where nothing is ever the man's fault; there is always someone else to blame.

• You hit your wife and degrade and belittle her; SHE must not be submitting enough. Her fault. 
• You have lustful thoughts about the neighbor's three-year old girl? SHE was dressed in a way that was provocative. Parents fault. Toddlers Fault. 
• You molest your sisters of various ages on multiple occasions? THEY should have been dressed in a way that didn't temp you. Also your parents should do more to restrict your access to them. Sisters fault. Parents Fault. 
• You cheat on your pregnant wife habitually for many years. SHE wasn't paying enough attention to you or satisfying your sexual needs. Those OTHER WOMEN were of the world and will seduce you with their sensual modern dress and sexual liberation. SATAN built a fortress in your heart.  Wife's fault. Worldly Women's fault. Satan's fault. 

When you are brought up thinking that you have absolutely no willpower or choice over your actions, it creates a deeply ingrained idea that nothing is ever your fault. This is why we see such high rates of abuse in these fundamentalist circles. Most don't have the tools to even question it, and honestly why would you? If you are brought up with no sense of personal responsibility, why would you seek out to un-absolve  yourself from all your personal failings. 

So yes, the this cult damages men just as much as women, because it enables the men to become abusers. Not all of course, but unless they are born with a high sense of empathy, integrity, and critical thinking (because their philosophy undermines every one of these principles), they go through life without an ounce of personal responsibility or ownership to their actions. They are victims of the way they were brought up, but it doesn't excuse the abuse they inflict on others. 

[quiverofdoubt]

53 minutes ago, elvirajane said:

I don't really understand why everyone is happy that it is a boy. Their cult is as harmful to men as to women.

 

I'm wondering if people are thinking that a girl in josh's house hold might not be safe from sexual abuse? It's a horrifying thought. But I wonder if that's where the relief is coming from?

[SPHASH]

In reference to whether Josh had extramarital sex, Daniel Keller's public reaction calling him a pig and whatnot convinced me he was.

[JMO]

27 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

To be fair, I never found out the genders till my anatomy scans around 16/18 weeks.  I got great prenatal care, and was saying both a regular ob and a high risk ob for my second pregnancy.  I got all kinds of blood work done early on.  But the gender test would have been out of pocket and pricey, not 100% accurate (or even close).  It's not a test that's offered as standard care, you have to request it.  And pregnancy goes by so quickly, especially 2nd and subsequent pregnancies, that waiting a few extra weeks to find out at insurance's expense wasn't a big deal. Finding out the gender at 13 weeks offered no health benefits to me or baby, and would have required yet another trip to the lab for another blood draw.

The test is actually for trisomies, especially trisomy 21 ( or Downs). It's actually very accurate.  It happens to test the sex chromosomes as well. I did it and my insurance covered it but between my age and history I was in the high risk pool. I did it since I lost a pregnancy due to trisomy and it helped me to know if I could lose another.  

[quiverofdoubt]

Just now, JMO said:

The test is actually for trisomies, especially trisomy 21 ( or Downs). It's actually very accurate.  It happens to test the sex chromosomes as well. I did it and my insurance covered it but between my age and history I was in the high risk pool. I did it since I lost a pregnancy due to trisomy and it helped me to know if I could lose another.  

I had that test for both pregnancies as well, the first part of the test.  Neither time was the gender test offered to me, or even brought up or discussed.  I also had genetic tests done for tay sachs and a few others i believe.  Again, it was never mentioned. Only the results of the genetic screenings.  I don't think insurance covered my tay sachs test though   fortunately I'm super low risk for ts.  

I'm sorry for your loss.  It's so hard. We lost one with an ectopic in between my two pregnancies.

[Feminist_Defrauder91]

I saw the People article and said "dammit" out loud.  I feel bad for those poor kids, especially the girls.

[Phoenix]

Welcome to the opening chapter of the Josh redemption tour. This little boy will be second only to Josie in his blessed by God status as the one who saved his parents marriage, proved the durability of the patriarchal model and helped paper over his fathers scandal. Meanwhile he will spend his childhood as a prop to Josh's redemption testimony. 

Unless and until Josh finds more hookers to cheat with and the whole sorry cycle begins again. 

Only curiosity I have about this shit-show reboot is how many times will Anna accept being publicly kicked in the teeth before the brainwashing and lies wear thin and she says, "enough"!? 

[quiverofdoubt]

It takes a special twisted kind of logic to come up with  Working swimmers = redemption

[eveandadam]

What will the next Duggar announcement be?

- Jinger prengant

- M5 birth

- Jessa pregnant

- Jana courting?

or

- Joe and Kendra engagement?

 

[Markie]

I imagine they announced the pregnancy because Anna is noticeably pregnant. Chances are they are going to attend the Big Sandy Conference in April and want the pregnancy out there before they go. Maybe she will get to council other young, uneducated wives in similar situations... and Josh will be able to preach how Godly he is now! 

[BeccaGrim]

4 hours ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I remember reading somewhere that post-infidelity it's actually fairly common for the "wronged" party to initiate sex/want it- they want to know they are still wanted/desirable and it gives them a sense of power. Given that they think birth control is a sin (a sin worse than cheating, even?), it makes sense in a weird way that she wouldn't want to use birth control after the affairs. She wouldn't want to encourage him to sin more... and probably thinks she can just love him enough. In a healthy relationship, they'd get intense couples counseling because changing behavior is HARD. If he does have a sex addiction, it's one thing to be sober in a recovery house (as much of a joke as the Jesus Camp is)- it's another when back in the real world. I think it's possible for relationships to survive affairs, but their entire relationship dynamic is incredibly unhealthy and unless that's changed- I predict Joshgate 3.0 in about 4 months! 

He'd have to officially leave her or she'd have to throw him out. I mean, I just can't imagine 3.0.  Back on Ashley Madison? 

13 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

What will the next Duggar announcement be?

- Jinger prengant

- M5 birth

- Jessa pregnant

- Jana courting?

or

- Joe and Kendra engagement?

 

I predict...

Jinger Pregnant

Joe and Kendra Engagement 

Jana Courting

John-David Courting. 

M5 birth

Jill Birth

Jessa Pregnant. 

[Galbin]

Someone in the other thread was wondering about the episode where Anna announced her pregnancy, and Josh was not exactly excited. It's at 33:35.