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Chad and Erin Paine: Goats and Other Things that Spit


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15 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

But from someone who did not have that happy family loving atmosphere growing up and has fought depression for a while, I have to admit I got a bit jealous seeing all the happiness they were exuding this episode. But having said that, I would never trade places with them in a million years or think it is remotely good they are blissfully ignorant. Does that make sense? Does that make me horrible? 

Yeah but I wonder how much of that is played up for the cameras. Also, they kinda have to keep sweet. So I wouldn't be so sure that what they show is genuine. They do say ignorance is bliss though. 

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On 3/21/2017 at 9:18 PM, Pasta said:

Baby brain. It's a thing. 

And the more kids you have the worse it gets, and it never comes back! 

ETA- maybe I should stop snarling on Michelle... she lost her brain ten kids ago! ;)

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9 hours ago, crazysnark said:

The name of the clotting disorder is antiphospholpid syndrome. It is sometimes called PAI. To be honest, it is not that big of a deal. My husband and all of his sisters have it and only 1 sister had a hard time getting pregnant and 5 miscarriages. She took her shots like Erin with her 2nd and got pregnant by not trying not preventing 9 months postpartum. After further research on adverse side effects of the injection, she decided to just take a really good fish oil and DHA and that was her easiest pregnancy. As long as your pregnancy is monitored by a Dr, death of a mother is pretty rare, it's the unborn that carries the highest risk. 

That being said I don't think it is healthy for ANY woman to get pregnant 6 months post baby for 20 years.......

 

 

Thank you. I've been wanting to look it up for awhile. I get that Carson's birth was dangerous because of the aprubtion, but people always talk like she's half likely to die by getting pregnant and I'm wondering just what the risks are. I'll read up. 

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12 hours ago, crazysnark said:

The name of the clotting disorder is antiphospholpid syndrome. It is sometimes called PAI. To be honest, it is not that big of a deal. My husband and all of his sisters have it and only 1 sister had a hard time getting pregnant and 5 miscarriages. She took her shots like Erin with her 2nd and got pregnant by not trying not preventing 9 months postpartum. After further research on adverse side effects of the injection, she decided to just take a really good fish oil and DHA and that was her easiest pregnancy. As long as your pregnancy is monitored by a Dr, death of a mother is pretty rare, it's the unborn that carries the highest risk. 

That being said I don't think it is healthy for ANY woman to get pregnant 6 months post baby for 20 years.......

 

 

Thank you very much for your answer. While I agree having a baby every single year is insane, I appreciate someone explains that Erin is not risking her life if she has more babies. I think most of us have been wrong about her reproductive health, thinking that Carson's delivery was risky because the clotting disorder. As far as the abruption was not related to the clotting disorder and it was just bad luck, she's not irresponsible having more kids. (I'm assuming abruption is not a genetic or repetitive issue).

This said, it would please me a lot that these young fundies stop having quivers and just have a few kids they can provide for.

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@front hugs > duggsNo. It does make you human though. I think we all wind up being drawn to things that appear to have something we miss in our own lives. I'm a big critic of these families and even I'm drawn to the spiritual peace they appear to exude at times. I'm spiritually wandering and religiously unaffiliated though, so I'm twice as cautious about keeping my eyes wide open when looking at these types of fundamentalist movements. 

When it comes to the Bateses or other Fundie families, I would just say tread cautiously. Don't let the shiny and happy exterior make you forget that they promote harmful beliefs or that Gil helped conceal accusations of sexual assault. It's ok to like or enjoy certain things about them (like thinking the babies are cute or that Erin has lovely hair or you'd kill to wear Jessa Seewald's wedding dress) - just don't forget what they actually believe. And, like @Carm_88said, remember that the show and social media only tell one side of the story. They could genuinely be that happy all the time or they may not be. :)

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@Carm_88 and @VelociRapturethank you for your words! I think I was just in a tough place last night, but you both are so right. Luckily, even while feeling that, I never lost sight of the bigger picture with this family.

Also, Nathan looked a shit ton like Gil in last night's episode and that was just plain terrifying. 

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1 hour ago, front hugs > duggs said:

@Carm_88 and @VelociRapturethank you for your words! I think I was just in a tough place last night, but you both are so right. Luckily, even while feeling that, I never lost sight of the bigger picture with this family.

Also, Nathan looked a shit ton like Gil in last night's episode and that was just plain terrifying. 

Oh, it's easy to get sucked in and think about how nice it would be to have such a big happy family. I've done it myself when feeling a bit lonely and then I remembered how my brother and I fought like cats and dogs, if I had a sister it would be worst. Now imagine 5-6 of all different ages...nope. 

Nathan is getting more like Gil, it is a bit freaky. 

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You are right that with recognition and management, having antiphospholpid syndrome is not life-and-death. It is more common than not a reason why pregnancies will abort. 

As to having a kid a year, this is actually more dangerous. There is an increase to both maternal and infant mortality when a woman births two kids within an 18 month period. These rates get higher when the births are less than a year apart. Keep in mind that we are seeing a very small demographic (fundies) of folks having babies in succession. When you look worldwide, though especially in the US, it points a grim picture of fetal and maternal death by way of lack of family planning. 

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Today Erin talks about kindness. Preaches is probably a better way of putting that. 

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Well placenta abruption is linked to the disorder. My SIL had one with her first pregnancy when they did not know she had the disorder. Because they did not know she wasn't monitored for it and had a pretty nasty abruption when her water broke. This of course led to an emergency c section where she and baby had a normal recovery. With Erin's case she was constantly monitored and the abruption was fairly small. IMO they played it up to make Erin appear willing to be a maryr. Kind of like " she is willing to die to make soldiers of christ" It might be used against other siblings who limit family size to guilt them by making them feel like they lack faith. 

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@front hugs > duggs That's exactly what drew me to the Duggars and Bates many many years ago. I am an only child, and definitely did not have a loving, close family growing up and when the shows first started, I just thought wow. What I wouldn't give to have a big happy family like that!

When the shows first started I was living alone in a crappy apartment in a bad neighbourhood, barely making ends meet, skipping meals to make rent, with no help from my parents and very little contact either. I'm mildly Christian, and I just thought they were plain old conservative Christian, close, loving families. Even the lifestyle wasn't that unappealing when you feel like you can't make it on your own--being provided for really doesn't sound that bad when you're desperate. I can definitely still see where I saw that in them, and yes, although things are better with my family now I still sometimes feel that jealousy too. 

But like @Carm_88 and @VelociRapture said (much more eloquently than I can!), there's definitely more underneath the shiny happy exterior, and I'm really glad I dug deeper into these families and found that out. I doubt I ever would have really gotten sucked all the way into the lifestyle, but still...scary thought! They have terrible beliefs and back stories, and for sure there has to be some "keeping sweet" for the cameras as well. I do kind of hope though, for sentimental reasons, that it's not all manufactured. I'd like to think for the kids' sakes at least, they do have somewhat of a happy home atmosphere. 

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21 minutes ago, Jiraffe said:

@front hugs > duggs That's exactly what drew me to the Duggars and Bates many many years ago. I am an only child, and definitely did not have a loving, close family growing up and when the shows first started, I just thought wow. What I wouldn't give to have a big happy family like that!

When the shows first started I was living alone in a crappy apartment in a bad neighbourhood, barely making ends meet, skipping meals to make rent, with no help from my parents and very little contact either. I'm mildly Christian, and I just thought they were plain old conservative Christian, close, loving families. Even the lifestyle wasn't that unappealing when you feel like you can't make it on your own--being provided for really doesn't sound that bad when you're desperate. I can definitely still see where I saw that in them, and yes, although things are better with my family now I still sometimes feel that jealousy too. 

But like @Carm_88 and @VelociRapture said (much more eloquently than I can!), there's definitely more underneath the shiny happy exterior, and I'm really glad I dug deeper into these families and found that out. I doubt I ever would have really gotten sucked all the way into the lifestyle, but still...scary thought! They have terrible beliefs and back stories, and for sure there has to be some "keeping sweet" for the cameras as well. I do kind of hope though, for sentimental reasons, that it's not all manufactured. I'd like to think for the kids' sakes at least, they do have somewhat of a happy home atmosphere. 

I always wish I could be a fly on their wall.... And not now during the uptv money hay day times (or even during the TLC gifting us a new house add-on time), but before all that. Where all those kids were crammed in a teeny tiny house. I'm sure a much different picture would be presented.

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15 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Yeah but I wonder how much of that is played up for the cameras. Also, they kinda have to keep sweet. So I wouldn't be so sure that what they show is genuine. They do say ignorance is bliss though. 

The Duggar and Bates kids get a lot of credit on these forums for putting it on for the cameras. I tend to think they aren't at all, that they've been conditioned to be HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY from birth. They never had a chance to discover different feelings so I doubt they are aware that they might have them. I know the adults in these families aren't as dense as they pretend to be, but the kids...I really think they are. Not their fault, of course. 

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16 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I feel like Erin looks the happiest she ever has. I just hope it isn't pregnancy glow. 

I also feel like Tori looks so incredibly happy with Bobby, moreso than any fundie that I've seen with a partner.

Listen, I hate their beliefs and I so badly wish they had different upbringings that would enable them to do more than birth babies (also, random tangent, but on UpTV's FB banner, it is just totally unfair that people like Gil and Kelly Bates would share space with Lauren Graham and Alexis Bledel). 

But from someone who did not have that happy family loving atmosphere growing up and has fought depression for a while, I have to admit I got a bit jealous seeing all the happiness they were exuding this episode. But having said that, I would never trade places with them in a million years or think it is remotely good they are blissfully ignorant. Does that make sense? Does that make me horrible? 

No of course it does not make you horrible. But what we see on tv is not real. Those cameras come in and everyone is "on." We're supposed to look at all that bliss and be jealous! Look at that family! So many kids and yet they all get along so well! So many kids and yet they all are well-behaving and respectable kids/teens/young adults! It must be Jesus! Those cameras go off though, and mark my words it's not all leave it to beaver and kittens and rainbows. No family is sunshine perfect. 

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1 hour ago, jacduggar said:

The Duggar and Bates kids get a lot of credit on these forums for putting it on for the cameras. I tend to think they aren't at all, that they've been conditioned to be HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY from birth. They never had a chance to discover different feelings so I doubt they are aware that they might have them. I know the adults in these families aren't as dense as they pretend to be, but the kids...I really think they are. Not their fault, of course. 

I grew up in an abusive house. Thankfully, not on tv. You better believe everyone of us was HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY at all times. I wasn't even aware I had other emotions until I was like 30. I mean I knew I should feel mad but I didn't know how to "feel" mad. It's still something that I struggle with. I imagine most of those kids are happy all the time nt necessarily because they are really happy or even good actors but because it "costs" to much to present as otherwise.

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I have had severe depression and one of the hardest things I had to learn while I was suffering the most from it was that social media does not tell the full story. 

I kept thinking everyone had a better life than me, that everyone was happier than me and that everyone was more successful because that was how it seemed on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. It's so easy to forget that people will post the flowers their boyfriend got them.....but not the details of the fight they had the night before. They'll post travel pictures, but not the selfie of them delayed in the airport delayed for hours looking crap. 

It was also a process to learn that even the people obsessed with posting stuff like "CHOOSE HAPPINESS" and "LOVE EVERY MOMENT" are never happy 100% of the time. No one's life is that perfect. 

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14 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I have had severe depression and one of the hardest things I had to learn while I was suffering the most from it was that social media does not tell the full story. 

I kept thinking everyone had a better life than me, that everyone was happier than me and that everyone was more successful because that was how it seemed on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. It's so easy to forget that people will post the flowers their boyfriend got them.....but not the details of the fight they had the night before. They'll post travel pictures, but not the selfie of them delayed in the airport delayed for hours looking crap. 

It was also a process to learn that even the people obsessed with posting stuff like "CHOOSE HAPPINESS" and "LOVE EVERY MOMENT" are never happy 100% of the time. No one's life is that perfect. 

There's that saying about not comparing your everyday life to someone else's highlight reel, but it's so hard not to do. I scan through my own instagram photos and it's all puppies, babies, books I've read, and things I've baked, and it's such an incomplete picture of my reality that it seems ridiculous that anyone could look at it and think it encompasses my whole life - but I'm sure that someone out there does. I try to compensate by including some "real life" stuff, but at the same time it's hard to take photos when you're depressed. It's hard to look at the grid of beautiful photos and show the ugly.

 

I don't know if I have a point, really, other than... I've been there, too. It sucks.

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1 hour ago, just...sare said:

There's that saying about not comparing your everyday life to someone else's highlight reel, but it's so hard not to do. I scan through my own instagram photos and it's all puppies, babies, books I've read, and things I've baked, and it's such an incomplete picture of my reality that it seems ridiculous that anyone could look at it and think it encompasses my whole life - but I'm sure that someone out there does. I try to compensate by including some "real life" stuff, but at the same time it's hard to take photos when you're depressed. It's hard to look at the grid of beautiful photos and show the ugly.

 

I don't know if I have a point, really, other than... I've been there, too. It sucks.

Same. Only I compensate by writing funny captions to go with my baby and dog posts. I've found it can help cheer me up a lot and hopefully it does the same for others too.

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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 5:03 PM, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I have had severe depression and one of the hardest things I had to learn while I was suffering the most from it was that social media does not tell the full story. 

I kept thinking everyone had a better life than me, that everyone was happier than me and that everyone was more successful because that was how it seemed on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. It's so easy to forget that people will post the flowers their boyfriend got them.....but not the details of the fight they had the night before. They'll post travel pictures, but not the selfie of them delayed in the airport delayed for hours looking crap. 

It was also a process to learn that even the people obsessed with posting stuff like "CHOOSE HAPPINESS" and "LOVE EVERY MOMENT" are never happy 100% of the time. No one's life is that perfect. 

 

10 hours ago, just...sare said:

There's that saying about not comparing your everyday life to someone else's highlight reel, but it's so hard not to do. I scan through my own instagram photos and it's all puppies, babies, books I've read, and things I've baked, and it's such an incomplete picture of my reality that it seems ridiculous that anyone could look at it and think it encompasses my whole life - but I'm sure that someone out there does. I try to compensate by including some "real life" stuff, but at the same time it's hard to take photos when you're depressed. It's hard to look at the grid of beautiful photos and show the ugly.

 

I don't know if I have a point, really, other than... I've been there, too. It sucks.

Your not alone. I struggle with this too. My medical problems have taken so many things off the table for me. Marriage, kids, travel, even mundane things. I remind myself that is it not a big deal health is more important and there's nothing "bad" about my life. But its hard when it wasn't my choice not to have those things and I already had to waste so many years. Seeing how happy people are on Facebook or how easy its been for others to meet people, get married and have families or go on great vacations and have great jobs even with family and friends.  Its easy to see all that and wonder how they have it so easy when it feels like everything in your life is hard. But they've had hardships too.

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34 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Your not alone. I struggle with this too. My medical problems have taken so many things off the table for me. Marriage, kids, travel, even mundane things. I remind myself that is it not a big deal health is more important and there's nothing "bad" about my life. But its hard when it wasn't my choice not to have those things and I already had to waste so many years. Seeing how happy people are on Facebook or how easy its been for others to met people, get married and have families or go on great vacations and have great jobs even with family and friends.  Its easy to see all that and wonder how they have it so easy when it feels like everything in your life is hard. But they've had hardships too.

I'm like this too and I know that like many, I only put the good things on there. Very few people write a status on Facebook about how they ate a whole pizza and a box of chocolates, but most of us have had a day of such indulgence. It's hard to compare your life to someone else, somehow you're always not going to measure up. I've decided to take things at my own pace and enjoy the path. It may not be perfect but it's mine. 

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9 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Same. Only I compensate by writing funny captions to go with my baby and dog posts. I've found it can help cheer me up a lot and hopefully it does the same for others too.

I stay home and have 3 kids and I like to take pictures of "reasons my kids are crying" to send  my husband throughout the day. My favorite is the collage of my middle daughter crying all over the park. "Here is middle ferrets crying on the swings. And crying on the slide. And crying on the jungle gym. Okay, time to go... oh, now she's crying because it's time to leave" 

seriously, kids are insane. We'd planned on two, had three, and I've pretty much lost my mind! 

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On 24/3/2017 at 3:15 AM, front hugs > duggs said:

But from someone who did not have that happy family loving atmosphere growing up and has fought depression for a while, I have to admit I got a bit jealous seeing all the happiness they were exuding this episode. But having said that, I would never trade places with them in a million years or think it is remotely good they are blissfully ignorant. Does that make sense? Does that make me horrible? 

it does make sense and you're not the only person who feels that way :)

just remember no matter what they show on tv, no one has a perfect life. reality tv is deceiving. there is a lot of psychological and emotional abuse going on in fundieland (and having experienced it myself I know what I'm talking about).

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On 3/24/2017 at 0:31 PM, Kelsey said:

I grew up in an abusive house. Thankfully, not on tv. You better believe everyone of us was HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY at all times. I wasn't even aware I had other emotions until I was like 30. I mean I knew I should feel mad but I didn't know how to "feel" mad. It's still something that I struggle with. I imagine most of those kids are happy all the time nt necessarily because they are really happy or even good actors but because it "costs" to much to present as otherwise.

@Kelsey Thanks so much for writing this - I've never heard anyone else describe it before. My emotions were told to me, and never explained when I was growing up. I just knew when to smile versus when to put on a different face, and I didn't connect the emotions to the facial expressions at all or to any sensations within me. It wasn't until I was FAR away and had a LOT of time that I began understanding feelings, and honestly, that made everything a fuck ton harder. Some days I wish I could still operate as that robot person. I suspect many of the Bates are often on that same sort of "auto pilot brainwash"

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On 24/3/2017 at 8:31 PM, Kelsey said:

I grew up in an abusive house. Thankfully, not on tv. You better believe everyone of us was HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY at all times. I wasn't even aware I had other emotions until I was like 30. I mean I knew I should feel mad but I didn't know how to "feel" mad. It's still something that I struggle with. I imagine most of those kids are happy all the time nt necessarily because they are really happy or even good actors but because it "costs" to much to present as otherwise.

I can definitely relate with you. I still struggle today with dealing with emotions and the worst thing is that it has effected every single relationship (romantic or just friendship) I had. It's really hard to live a normal life

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Just realised Erin is 6 years younger than me, and Chad two years younger... :pb_eek: For some reason, I thought they were about my age. I don't know why, it just gave me minor freaks :P

Carry on.

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