Duggars by the Dozen 26 - Double Baked Duggars

[singsingsing]

I've never heard that Josh was betrothed twice. Even the first betrothal I think was hinted at in the police reports but never explicitly confirmed?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

36 minutes ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Sorry, really OT, but I was just looking back at "Alice's" revelations from more than a decade ago and just realized that Josh was betrothed to a girl, TWICE. I never knew about the twice part. I heard it happened once and it was canceled due to the family finding out Josh's crimes. I just learned it happened twice. Also, I think Josh was discovered sexually sinning by the church AGAIN during some political campaign. I know this is probably extensively discussed somewhere on planet fj but I'm too tired to look. Srry again, just surprised of his 2X betrothal 

I was under the impression that JB  had an arraignment that Josh would marry some girl, but that fell apart when the molestation occurred, though he was only 15 when it was called off, not sure how old the girl was or if we even know who she is. As far as I know his 2nd betrothal was to Anna, unless there was another arraignment prior to Anna that I haven't heard of. 

[AnnaRuk09]

Here's the page that talks about the whole timeline of events concerning Josh's crimes: http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

I didn't know he was betrothed twice until I went back and read this article today from 2 yrs ago. Yeah I don't think it was technically ever 100% confirmed but the person who revealed it, "Alice," also revealed very specific pieces of info about the Josh scandal in 2006, 9 years before it exploded, so she obviously had inside info that nobody else had. 

[singsingsing]

4 minutes ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Here's the page that talks about the whole timeline of events concerning Josh's crimes: http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

I didn't know he was betrothed twice until I went back and read this article today from 2 yrs ago. Yeah I don't think it was technically ever 100% confirmed but the person who revealed it, "Alice," also revealed very specific pieces of info about the Josh scandal in 2006, 9 years before it exploded, so she obviously had inside info that nobody else had. 

Interesting, I remember this article now that I'm reading it again. So he was betrothed to the same girl twice. Seems pretty credible to me, given that the betrothal was hinted at in the actual police report, and 'Alice' and 'concernedmom' seemed to have very specific and accurate information about the scandal long before it was exposed.

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

6 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

As for Josh, he's the headship he can tell Anna NO, we are done with babies, I'm sure he was pressured to have another blessing by his idiots parents, but I would hope if he is truly miserable with so many kids he will stop.

That's what I keep wondering about. If Josh is the headship according to their rules, why wouldn't he put his foot down and say, "Anna, we're done after this next baby" if he didn't want any more kids? Jim Boob and Meeshelle probably did pressure him into a redemption baby. I know "honor thy father and mother" is a commandment, but only in IFB/Duggarland land does "honoring thy parents" mean the same thing as, "deferring to thy parents on decision making long after thine art married and out of the house." 

Its too bad Josh thinks Planned Parenthood is evil. They would probably give him a vasectomy without him notifying Anna, and pre-scandal, he might have been able to get out for a few hours to have the procedure done. No way Annas gonna feel OK with non-Duggar accompanied outings anymore though , so he's probably missed the boat on that particular choice of action. I've heard of women needing to hide birth control from their partners, but never the other way around, so I wonder how Planned Parenthood (hypothetically...)would help/handle a man with 5 kids and a baby crazy wife who wants more of them and refuses to use birth control, if such a man came to them and wanted a vasectomy. 

I need to stop dreaming though. I can see Josh being the type of partner who wouldn't want the burden of dealing with birth control or reproductive surgery, even if he ever did put his foot down about deciding not to have any more babies. If he weren't a fundie, he'd totally be the, "But baby, why don't YOU just get on the pill, why do I have to wear a CONDOM?? Wahh...condoms suuuuuuck!!" guy 

I also concur that Jinger is probably pregnant, or Joseph and Kendra are engaged. No way the Duggars are gonna just leave that bombshell hanging out there by itself for too long....

[singsingsing]

Babies are a visible sign that you're toeing the fundie line. So back when he was trying to cultivate a career as a fundie Christian politician, babies were essential to his image, even if on a purely personal level he really didn't want them. And now that he's fallen from grace and is trying to regain a place of respect in his community, it's even more essential for him to keep impregnating his wife. It shows that he is still being obedient to God, that Anna is still being obedient to him, and that God is still blessing them. 

[send*the*ferrets]

6 hours ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

 

Its too bad Josh thinks Planned Parenthood is evil. They would probably give him a vasectomy without him notifying Anna, and pre-scandal, he might have been able to get out for a few hours to have the procedure done. No way Annas gonna feel OK with non-Duggar accompanied outings anymore though , so he's probably missed the boat on that particular choice of action. I've heard of women needing to hide birth control from their partners, but never the other way around, so I wonder how Planned Parenthood (hypothetically...)would help/handle a man with 5 kids and a baby crazy wife who wants more of them and refuses to use birth control, if such a man came to them and wanted a vasectomy. 

 

I have heard of urologists asking the wife before performing a vasectomy. I don't think it's a state regulation, just that doctors preference maybe? 

[FeministShrew]

40 minutes ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I have heard of urologists asking the wife before performing a vasectomy. I don't think it's a state regulation, just that doctors preference maybe? 

When my (now)ex had a vasectomy (15 years ago, I guess?) I had to go to the initial consultation appointment with him and give my formal, written consent. I also had to sign a release form before the actual procedure. Not sure if it was a legal requirement or if it was a CYA thing for the urologist. 
*cover your ass

[front hugs > duggs]

I just read that article with the timeline. I thought Jill and Jessa said they didn't even know it happened, that their parents told them because Josh admitted it first, and that's how they all found out. This article is saying the police report says first someone reported Josh to their parents, then 3 months later Josh admitted it, and only then they took action. Anybody know the truth? 

[BackseatMom]

Really, what is truth when it comes to the Duggars? At this point, I bet they believe most of their own lies.

[singsingsing]

33 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I just read that article with the timeline. I thought Jill and Jessa said they didn't even know it happened, that their parents told them because Josh admitted it first, and that's how they all found out. This article is saying the police report says first someone reported Josh to their parents, then 3 months later Josh admitted it, and only then they took action. Anybody know the truth? 

It appears that Josh was the one who initially reported himself.

[shiverful]

Interesting! 

I recently re-watched an old clip about Duggar courting rules (filmed before Joshgate) and noticed that Jim Bob actually said that he estimated that about 50% of all courtships are broken. Now, I am not surprised by those numbers, but I am surprised that JB "admitted" this. When JB and Michelle talk about their systems and beliefs they generally goes all the way trying to persuade the public of how perfect they are, so the fact that he mentioned broken courtships, and such a high number at that made me suspicious. 

At the time that JB was saying this the only public courtships that the Duggars has had were Josh&Anna, Jessa&Biin and Jill&Dereck. It made me wonder if he could be referring to up to three broken courtships in the past. 

 

[candygirl200413]

I just read an article about the woman who told the in touch reporter about this whole ordeal but I couldn't remember if it was originally anonymous or not

[PumaLover]

When my (now)ex had a vasectomy (15 years ago, I guess?) I had to go to the initial consultation appointment with him and give my formal, written consent. I also had to sign a release form before the actual procedure. Not sure if it was a legal requirement or if it was a CYA thing for the urologist. 
*cover your ass

When I had my tubes tied (2011 I think) I was the only one who had to consent. Maybe because I wasn't married at the time, but the doctor didn't seem concerned. She asked me if I was sure I wanted it done and I said yes and she said ok.

I know a lot of other places aren't as liberal and progressive as here so I know others have had a harder time getting it done.

[HarleyQuinn]

The thread below is linked in that old Gawker article, that's an interesting trip down memory lane. What sweet summer children some of us were.

 

[Greendoor]

6 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Babies are a visible sign that you're toeing the fundie line. So back when he was trying to cultivate a career as a fundie Christian politician, babies were essential to his image, even if on a purely personal level he really didn't want them. And now that he's fallen from grace and is trying to regain a place of respect in his community, it's even more essential for him to keep impregnating his wife. It shows that he is still being obedient to God, that Anna is still being obedient to him, and that God is still blessing them. 

That is so awful, but you are no doubt right.  Every child should be wanted, but not as a sign of fertility.

 

[AnnaRuk09]

1 hour ago, shiverful said:

Interesting! 

I recently re-watched an old clip about Duggar courting rules (filmed before Joshgate) and noticed that Jim Bob actually said that he estimated that about 50% of all courtships are broken. Now, I am not surprised by those numbers, but I am surprised that JB "admitted" this. When JB and Michelle talk about their systems and beliefs they generally goes all the way trying to persuade the public of how perfect they are, so the fact that he mentioned broken courtships, and such a high number at that made me suspicious. 

At the time that JB was saying this the only public courtships that the Duggars has had were Josh&Anna, Jessa&Biin and Jill&Dereck. It made me wonder if he could be referring to up to three broken courtships in the past. 

 

Interesting find. Do you have the name of the episode?

 

15 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I was under the impression that JB  had an arraignment that Josh would marry some girl, but that fell apart when the molestation occurred, though he was only 15 when it was called off, not sure how old the girl was or if we even know who she is. As far as I know his 2nd betrothal was to Anna, unless there was another arraignment prior to Anna that I haven't heard of. 

The girl suspected to have been betrothed to Josh was Kaeleigh Holt. I guess she attended the same church as Josh and became betrothed to her. Then Josh violated a girl and it was canceled. Then in the future Josh was betrothed again to the same girl during the time he was working onthe holt father's political campaign.  The Holt father eventually lost the campaign and so he began to look or "sin in he camp." It was then discovered that he had committed a sexual sin during the campaign(?). Wasn't it rumored somewhere that this sexual sin was masturbation/pornography? I thought I read something like that somewhere. 

[send*the*ferrets]

I can almost roll my eyes and understand their whole courting thing, but betrothal for a *fourteen* year old?! With what purpose? They don't do it anymore so maybe they realized it was bat-shit crazy. Do any of the other fundie families do "betrothals" for barely teenagers? 

[front hugs > duggs]

I think the betrothal was just for Josh so he could be promised someone before everyone else found out about his prior indiscretions. Maybe the Holt's were down with their barely teenaged daughter becoming betrothed because money and power? What a life...

[Fundie Bunny]

33 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I think the betrothal was just for Josh so he could be promised someone before everyone else found out about his prior indiscretions. Maybe the Holt's were down with their barely teenaged daughter becoming betrothed because money and power? What a life...

Back then they had next to nothing.  I see no other reason apartamento from being a bunch of religious freaks

[Timetostoplurking]

On March 20, 2017 at 7:17 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

 

.......This family always talks about doing "God's will" but they do what they want and say God told them too. 

This!!!   Right here!  This sums up the thing that drives me absolutely bat shit crazy.    Whether you are a Duggar or Gothard himself, all you have to do is say "God told me so" and you can make stuff up.  Better yet, find an obscure bible passage and you are set!  You can do with whatever you want!    Ugh!!!)

[calimojo]

I would like to 'like' the two posts above numerous times.  This is what I have long felt about people who claim that God told them to do something.  This applies to Derick,  it applies to the insane breeding, it applies to so much.  I hear people say this all the time and it makes my skin crawl.  I am not sure if it as an actual delusion or if people who say this know they are full of shit. 

 

I am so angered by the absolute arrogance these people have in thinking that God is going to bother with trivial details in a person's life.  If you chose to believe,  IMO,  God gives us what we need and it is up to us to figure that out and use it appropriately.  Prayer and Meditation, education, insight, etc help us do this.  We are to be stewards for this earth, stewards for the flora and fauna, and stewards of humanity.  When we have more than we need, we should share and when we see someone hurting we should try to help and if we are hurting,  prayer and meditation can help us unlock our own personal strengths or find peace and acceptance.  

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

16 hours ago, PumaLover said:

When I had my tubes tied (2011 I think) I was the only one who had to consent. Maybe because I wasn't married at the time, but the doctor didn't seem concerned. She asked me if I was sure I wanted it done and I said yes and she said ok.

I know a lot of other places aren't as liberal and progressive as here so I know others have had a harder time getting it done.

When I had my tubes tied (also 2011  ), I was also the only person who needed to consent. There was a lot of paperwork and some of it had to be completed at least 2 weeks before the surgery, so that I had a chance to change my mind.

There was also a set of paperwork where my doctor had to give a reason for my surgery that would be acceptable to the Catholic hospital where I had my surgery. I think he picked the reason that having any more children would have a bad effect on my mental health.  It probably would have!

14 hours ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I can almost roll my eyes and understand their whole courting thing, but betrothal for a *fourteen* year old?! With what purpose? They don't do it anymore so maybe they realized it was bat-shit crazy. Do any of the other fundie families do "betrothals" for barely teenagers? 

Vaughn Ohlman (is a creeper) believes that kids should be betrothed before they get led into any sexual sin (including any sexual feelings at all) and that a girl is ready for marriage as soon as she has breasts. 

He wrote a book:

and tried to hold a retreat to allow godly patriarchs to sell their daughters make as many godly marriage matches as they could manage in a short time:

I recommend these tools:      if you dive into this rabbit hole. 

Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper! (And a pedophilic pimp.)

[nvmbr02]

19 hours ago, FeministShrew said:

When my (now)ex had a vasectomy (15 years ago, I guess?) I had to go to the initial consultation appointment with him and give my formal, written consent. I also had to sign a release form before the actual procedure. Not sure if it was a legal requirement or if it was a CYA thing for the urologist. 
*cover your ass

Interesting, My husband had a vasectomy when I was pregnant with our 3rd (and last!) baby. I did not go with him to either of his pre op appts. or sign anything. He had to have his done under general anesthesia so I did drive him to the hospital and pick him up/get all the post op instructions and meds, but that is all. My sister had her tubes tied a few years back and I know her husband didn't have to sign anything either. We live in different states.

[FeministShrew]

4 hours ago, nvmbr02 said:

Interesting, My husband had a vasectomy when I was pregnant with our 3rd (and last!) baby. I did not go with him to either of his pre op appts. or sign anything. He had to have his done under general anesthesia so I did drive him to the hospital and pick him up/get all the post op instructions and meds, but that is all. My sister had her tubes tied a few years back and I know her husband didn't have to sign anything either. We live in different states.

We're in SC, which probably makes a difference.  He didn't have general anesthesia, either, lol. Just a local numbing shot & and ice pack afterwards. But several couples we went to church with had tubals or vasectomies around the same time & the spouse always had to sign consent forms. Plus we all got the speech from the doctor about "Are you sure? What if something happens to one of your kids?" Like a new child will replace the one that dies. And doctors around here, at least back then, were very resistant to doing either procedure if you were childless, only had one child, or were under 30.