Stephen Hammer at Harvard

[nelliebelle1197]

On 3/15/2017 at 11:53 AM, Fundiewonder said:

I see he spent his first law-school summer at a firm in DC. I wonder what Meredith and the kids did during that time, especially if he was in the office 80+ hours a week. Would they bother to go there?

Many law students get an offer from the place where they spend their second summer. So, Stephen's location this summer could determine where they end up after graduation. Or maybe he'll shoot for clerking for a Supreme Court justice and end up in DC. I think his goal is to be a Supreme Court nominee in 25 years.

Summer interns are not in the office 80+ hours a week. Summer associate programs at Big Law pay well and the summers are wined and dined.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 3/18/2017 at 1:42 PM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

What does that have to do with his reasons for getting married or being happy in his current life?

Hypocrisy, that is what.

[Rosie]

15 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I'm a fundie? It gives me an in, I suppose. Helps to have mutual acquaintances. Have you tried requesting to follow her?

I have.

[GenerationCedarchip]

4 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Summer interns are not in the office 80+ hours a week. Summer associate programs at Big Law pay well and the summers are wined and dined.

2nd this.  The summer associate programs are well-known for being summers of well-paid fun.  The firm decides if it likes you, and if they do, then you might be offered the privilege of being able to get shackled to a desk for 80+ hours a week.  Lots of young lawyers like to snark on this. I've known a few that "summered" to make connections or just to see what it's like, and then went into clerkships, boutique firms or government.

[Palimpsest]

13 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

On the other hand, perhaps Princeton + Rhodes Scholarship + fundie conversion trump sexual sin. Who knows?

But, but, but,  he obviously repented!  He's a man so all is copacetic.

Yes, there is an obvious double standard in Fundieland.

It makes me squirm.

[hoipolloi]

13 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I think we had someone come and claim to have known Stephen in high school or something to give us the dirt that he partied a little and had some flings. Big whoop. Many fundies are not going to be concerned with a young person's past before being saved, or "turning their life around", because many fundies are in the same boat, with sordid pasts they've left behind. And, yes, that goes for women too.

How does Stephen's "past" fit in with their notions of being new incarnations of Jonathan & Sarah Edwards, per Meredith's gushing in this article?

Maybe that should be "Whoops?"

[formergothardite]

It just seems like a well educated, worldly man searching the internet for a fairly uneducated, submissive, sheltered wife should be a massive red flag. It should be a huge red flag to fundies, but apparently if you claim salvation your creepy behavior will be ignored. 

[Tatar-tot]

58 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It just seems like a well educated, worldly man searching the internet for a fairly uneducated, submissive, sheltered wife should be a massive red flag. It should be a huge red flag to fundies, but apparently if you claim salvation your creepy behavior will be ignored. 

If he should up at our house my uncle would show him his gun collection and escort his off the property.   There is something WEIRD with Hammer.  

My guess:   Mental Health issues.   

I feel for Meredith.  She looks like a delightful young woman.   Instead of barefoot and pregnant for the past 6 years she should has been President of her sorority, moving into her first apartment (which you know would look incredible and decorated with the best DIY, flea market finds and a lot of her creativity and ingenuity ), and buying her first car.  

Her parents royally screwed her and her siblings.    If farming is their goal the boys (and girls) should be at college majoring in agricultural science to learn everything they can on how to successfully run a farm. 

This situation makes me want to cry.

[Black Aliss]

16 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

@JMarie has a point.

Apart from possibly claiming that his college conversion to a form of evangelicalism somehow reconstituted his virginity or at least his sexual purity, Stephen's premarital fling(s) would seem to be a disqualifier by all the rules that Meredith & her family say they live by.

But how would they have known that Stephen was sexually experienced?

[hoipolloi]

7 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

But how would they have known that Stephen was sexually experienced?

Shouldn't the new Jonathan Edwards have disclosed his sinful past to his future in-laws? If so, did he?

Your point is well taken though. Just how do truth & honesty come into the situation when people are given $200 & a pass around GO for saying they're "saved?" Or perhaps being "saved" counts for more than the truth? 

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It just seems like a well educated, worldly man searching the internet for a fairly uneducated, submissive, sheltered wife should be a massive red flag. It should be a huge red flag to fundies, but apparently if you claim salvation your creepy behavior will be ignored. 

This. Exactly.

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

How does Stephen's "past" fit in with their notions of being new incarnations of Jonathan & Sarah Edwards, per Meredith's gushing in this article?

Maybe that should be "Whoops?"

Thanks for posting the article.  I had forgotten just how creepy it all was.  Their courtship really began to progress when they actually met in person?  And that whole week and a bit they were actually together meant they should get married?  

I also remember a post on either the family blog or Meredith's blog where the decision about Meredith getting married was made by her father and her younger brothers.  Meredith and her mother weren't included because women get too emotional, apparently.  I wish I could find the post that talked about this.

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

This. Exactly.

Maybe @JemimaPuddle-Duck can explain, but I really don't get why what he did isn't seen as a huge waving red flag. My fundie parents would have thought that was creepy and would have run the other way. The whole notion that a guy shopping on the internet for a sheltered, submissive, virginal wife is okay because he says he got saved, shows how little women are valued. 

[Clementine]

Just now, formergothardite said:

Maybe @JemimaPuddle-Duck can explain, but I really don't get why what he did isn't seen as a huge waving red flag. My fundie parents would have thought that was creepy and would have run the other way. The whole notion that a guy shopping on the internet for a sheltered, submissive, virginal wife is okay because he says he got saved, shows how little women are valued. 

The Alexander family seemed to view Stephen and the way he courted Meredith as winning the highest price in the fundie lottery. A Rhodes scholar comes from out of nowhere and proposes to the SAHD who lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere. See what happens if you just pray hard enough!

[formergothardite]

27 minutes ago, Clementine said:

The Alexander family seemed to view Stephen and the way he courted Meredith as winning the highest price in the fundie lottery. A Rhodes scholar comes from out of nowhere and proposes to the SAHD who lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere. See what happens if you just pray hard enough!

Most people would read that story and realize it sounds like the making of a horror film, but with a splash of Jesus mixed in and the Alexanders thought it was an answer to prayer.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 3/14/2017 at 2:41 PM, nickelodeon said:

I'm sure some white men find it very easy to convert to a religion that says that they are the most important people in the universe. So I would not be shocked if Stephen really has rejected his UU upbringing and gone whole-hog dominionist patriarchal dick.

Unless I'm mistaken, Derrick Dillard and his brother weren't raised fundamentalist, and his brother only recently became a Christian.  But there Derrick is, sopping up fundamentalism with his Duggar-daughter prize.  

I used to keep track of Stephen and Meredith since the way he shopped for her via her blog chilled my blood, and her father okay'ing this who thing freaked me out.  Stephen struck me then, and still does, as the sort of man who has such a complex of self-importance that he could easily make the jump from being mainstream Christian to one that says men are to be the kings of the castle.  Brigid Boyer's husband is the same sort of all-self-important conceited ass who would dive head-first into a religion that bestowed upon him immediate adoration of vagina-havers because of his mighty sword, aka his penis.  They are sexists who've found a religion that makes sexism one of its primary doctrines.

In Stephen's case, his inherent sexism might be part of what fuels his drive.  This is the career path he wants to take, but by George, there are women who are involved and who must be knocked down into their place beneath his feet.  He may not be aware of it, but if he were to dissect his psyche, I'm sure he'd find it somewhere in there.

On 3/15/2017 at 9:24 AM, nausicaa said:

What I don't get about Stephen, who clearly is a planner and a long range thinker, is why he married when he did. Why wouldn't he wait until after law school to shop fora wife via SAHD blogs, so that while he was at school he could focus on academics and internships and have as glowing a resume as possible? Four kids and a dependent wife really provide a lot of distractions, and he's competing against students who are able to have a laser sharp  single-minded focus on school.

If they are Quiverfull I get why the kids happened so fast, but to me that's all the more reason to delay getting married on his end. 

Also, I didn't follow the blog before Meredith got married. Did she always look so tired and checked out?

The religious right loves the story of an ambitious young man who married young and kept himself up by his own bootstraps, ignoring all sources of assistance, of course.  If that young man and his beautiful wife and brood of beautiful and good little Christian children can do it without assistance (of the evil, socialist kind, that is...just ignore his other privileges), then anyone can!

Basically he's setting himself up to be poster-boy for the GOP and all they stand for.

Also he was probably horny.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 3/18/2017 at 2:16 PM, Palimpsest said:

I sort of think judges are political but you may disagree.

 

As far as student debt goes, I don't think Stephen is necessarily overloaded, although I have no idea how he is supporting a wife and 4 children in Cambridge.  He's the ultimate scholarship kid, the ROTC helped, and I expect he qualified for some educational benefits through the military for his J.D.,  although I don't know how far that would go.

I'm not sure one can be a judge without being political, or an attorney.  Consider abortion.  There's no way to render a judgement that wouldn't be politically charged, and as an attorney, representing a pro-choice candidate one one case and a pro-life on another seems supremely unlikely.  Political affiliations necessarily come into play.

Scholarships don't exclude someone from receiving FAFSA grants.  A bevy of dependents might entitle him to a nice chunk of change.

On 3/23/2017 at 1:46 AM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Many fundies are not going to be concerned with a young person's past before being saved, or "turning their life around", because many fundies are in the same boat, with sordid pasts they've left behind. And, yes, that goes for women too. 

Find me some examples of women who have questionable sexual histories before marrying into some of the fundy families here.  I can name a few men who likely weren't touched, one convicted rapist, and one who molested a handful of kids, who married into, or are marrying into, some of the families here, but no women.  

[Jug Band Baby]

14 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

How does Stephen's "past" fit in with their notions of being new incarnations of Jonathan & Sarah Edwards, per Meredith's gushing in this article?

Maybe that should be "Whoops?"

That article will never not be creepy.  Also it sounds like her father and Stephen corresponded with e-mail and phone while she did not talk with him.  She only mentioned emails until meeting him in January.

[GenerationCedarchip]

I think for some families the way Stephen appeared on the scene would make them wary. If I had been Meredith, my parents would have wanted to chat with him and probably also someone who knew him personally before I would have been allowed free rein to meet him in person. 

However, meeting potential partners long distance isn't all that unheard of in Christian circles.   Even setting online dating sites aside, I know of folks who met and emailed via various homeschool alum groups, church conference groups, etc... I've had several friends who, lacking prospects in our local church, met folks in conservative christian groups or even at a conference.  VF conferences and things like the Gospel Coalition or Ligonier conference can be big meetup events.  I imagine the ATI conferences may be similar. Some had parents checking up on things before they actually met in public but others didn't. I do think it's unusual that Stephen was basically checking out SAHD blogs, but if he had newly converted and come into that lifestyle, I can see where one might do this because otherwise if you don't grow up in the conservative Christian or homeschool communities, it can be hard to meet people there. I've always wondered if the popular view on these two has been a misinterpretation. Maybe Stephen was an ambitious guy with a grand plan, but maybe he was just newly converted and a bit awkwardly trying to find like-minded women. 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

59 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I think for some families the way Stephen appeared on the scene would make them wary. If I had been Meredith, my parents would have wanted to chat with him and probably also someone who knew him personally before I would have been allowed free rein to meet him in person. 

However, meeting potential partners long distance isn't all that unheard of in Christian circles.   Even setting online dating sites aside, I know of folks who met and emailed via various homeschool alum groups, church conference groups, etc... I've had several friends who, lacking prospects in our local church, met folks in conservative christian groups or even at a conference.  VF conferences and things like the Gospel Coalition or Ligonier conference can be big meetup events.  I imagine the ATI conferences may be similar. Some had parents checking up on things before they actually met in public but others didn't. I do think it's unusual that Stephen was basically checking out SAHD blogs, but if he had newly converted and come into that lifestyle, I can see where one might do this because otherwise if you don't grow up in the conservative Christian or homeschool communities, it can be hard to meet people there. I've always wondered if the popular view on these two has been a misinterpretation. Maybe Stephen was an ambitious guy with a grand plan, but maybe he was just newly converted and a bit awkwardly trying to find like-minded women. 

Thank you! You are SO much more eloquent than me. I don't know Stephen, I don't know his motives, I don't know any more about how he found Meredith's blog than what she wrote in her courtship story that was linked (is there more somewhere?), so I'm not comfortable deciding that he's a messed up creep. We have no idea the details of his google search, his talks with Meredith or her parents. I know there are lots of crazy fundies, but it's often a default here to find sinister dealings in everything. 

5 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

 

Find me some examples of women who have questionable sexual histories before marrying into some of the fundy families here.  I can name a few men who likely weren't touched, one convicted rapist, and one who molested a handful of kids, who married into, or are marrying into, some of the families here, but no women.  

Well, I know some personally, not that I'm going to put that here. And just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it's not the case. There's one fundie gal I can think of whom I suspect had some experiences. And honestly, we have no idea whether Stephen was a virgin or not, and it's none of our business. 

 

[formergothardite]

Maybe he isn't a creep, but I still think that is a massive red flag.

Dear fundies and everyone else on the internet, if a guy shows up because he is looking for an uneducated, sheltered virgin who has been trained to submit to men, run. Run fast because that is not ever not creepy. 

[Palimpsest]

55 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I think for some families the way Stephen appeared on the scene would make them wary. If I had been Meredith, my parents would have wanted to chat with him and probably also someone who knew him personally before I would have been allowed free rein to meet him in person. 

Plenty of people, including some Fjers, have met their SOs or future spouses on line and we don't think anything of it.  The point is, that those people checked out their partners and their backgrounds themselves.  

What creeps me out about Meredith's "perfect" love story is that she turned over the email correspondence to her father - for months.  She only was allowed to email him directly and meet him with her father's permission.  She was 22, IIRC, and was kept out of the loop while Daddy vetted him.

54 minutes ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I do think it's unusual that Stephen was basically checking out SAHD blogs, but if he had newly converted and come into that lifestyle, I can see where one might do this

I think what is funny, and snark-worthy, about their gussied up romance story, is that they didn't just admit this up front.  Instead he just happened to be surfing the internet one night worrying about the difficulties of finding a Proverbs 31 woman, and hey presto!  He finds Meredith's blog.  

For all we, and the Alexanders know, Stephen could have been on Christian Mingle, he could have read many SAHDs' blogs and emailed scores of them but Meredith was the only one who answered.  Is there necessarily a creep factor there?

As far as Stephen's "past" goes, I think rumors that he has one depend on a couple of posters here who dropped in to say that Stephen dated when he was at Princeton.  Big whoop.  So he gave away a couple of pieces of his heart, but is now a huge catch in the thinking of the Alexander family.  Stephen may have been that intellectual and driven type who was too busy to date seriously.  

Again, the creep factors here for me are:  the way the Alexanders handled the screening, the huge difference in their educational backgrounds, fact that Stephen and Meredith only really spent a week getting to know each other in person before they got engaged, and the race to the altar with Brainy Manly Man.  

I think really Tim was more in love with the idea of nailing down this magnificent catch for Meredith quickly than made sense.  And it makes a fantastic story for SAHDs.  Just stay happy at home waiting and praying for Prince Charming, and a Rhodes Scholar will come galloping to your doorstep on a white horse and bearing a Tiffany ring.

It hasn't worked out that way for Sarah Mally, the Botkinettes, or Sarah Maxwell.

 

 

[Palimpsest]

40 minutes ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Well, I know some personally, not that I'm going to put that here. And just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it's not the case. There's one fundie gal I can think of whom I suspect had some experiences. And honestly, we have no idea whether Stephen was a virgin or not, and it's none of our business. 

 

Brava!

[hoipolloi]

15 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

As far as Stephen's "past" goes, I think rumors that he has one depend on a couple of posters here who dropped in to say that Stephen dated when he was at Princeton.  Big whoop.  So he gave away a couple of pieces of his heart, but is now a huge catch in the thinking of the Alexander family.

The comments on Stephen's "past" came from a poster claiming to have known him in high school. According to that poster, more than dating was involved. 

Re: the Alexanders' extreme vetting of Stephen. Yes, it's quite likely the Alexanders were dazzled by Stephen's CV -- as others here have said, Stephen was the fundie jackpot for parents of a SAHD. Then again, Timmy Alexander does not strike me as being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Re: big whoop, making whoopee & whoops. Sexual control (= patriarchy) is a cornerstone of Stephen & Meredith's belief system, a system they'd like to see imposed on all of us "non-believers" in their quest to emulate Jonathan & Sarah Edwards. Unlike @JemimaPuddle-Duck's depiction of tolerance among fundies, I don't ever recall seeing a "live and let live" sentiment in any statement or blog post from the Hammers or the Alexander family. To that end, as a woman non-believer with her own "past," do you think I'd get any acceptance or tolerance from these two or their fellow travelers, should their religious utopia come about? Of course not, which is why, IMO, their own hypocrisies & double standards need to be called out relentlessly.

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

The comments on Stephen's "past" came from a poster claiming to have known him in high school. According to that poster, more than dating was involved.

Obviously there's an implicit reminder in here that the poster was never verified, so could have been making it up just for a laugh (remember when Jeremy Vuolo first appeared in public Duggarland, and a poster swore up and down her aunt was Mrs Vuolo's best friend, and the Vuolo parents were secular Catholics who were shocked?  Not all random trolls are on the epic Razing Ruth level!)

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

@hoipolloi I said nothing of general fundie tolerance. Specifically in regards to past sexual history before someone is saved or has a "recommitment to the Lord" (I'm tired and can't find the right words for that thought right now), I believe that many, if not most, fundies can accept that and move on --- particularly if the person is still young. I don't know Mr. Alexander so I can't know for sure obviously, but it sounds as though he spent a good amount of time feeling Stephen out. So maybe Stephen was a total playboy his first couple years of college, then he got saved and sincerely repented. Maybe he's a total creeper, sought out someone he figured would be easy to control, talked a good game and fooled her dad. Maybe he didn't do much more than kissing in college, was a nice kid, and legitimately fell in love with Mer. If Mr. Alexander trusted Stephen and believed him to be a stand-up Christian young man, then I fail to see how that's hypocritical in this particular instance. 

 

I think the Edwards reference is silly, and was (hopefully) made by an over-zealous young bride to be.