Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[grandmadugger]

45 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Fashion choices =/= changes in beliefs. Jinger married an IFB preacher. His beliefs may not line up 100% with the Duggars, but they do share common patriarchal fundamentalist beliefs. If they didn't, JB would not allow Jeremy anywhere Jinger.

 

Jeremy isn't an IFB preacher.  He's a non-denominational preacher.  There are differences between the two.

[SportsgalAnnie]

I think it's great Jinger is in shorts, even if it's a small step ... it's a step.  Even if I don't agree with Jeremy at all, I am thankful he got her out of Arkansas. 

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

I think she looks cute in those shorts and I am happy she is trying new things in fashion. I don't think it means much. Pretty interesting they were near a university, I hope they are looking into some classes.

She does not look pregnant in this picture, which I guess is a good thing. Screw you,Derick, and your 'by the end of the year' prediction.

[RosyDaisy]

I think it's great Jinger is in shorts, even if it's a small step ... it's a step.  Even if I don't agree with Jeremy at all, I am thankful he got her out of Arkansas. 

It is not even a small step. If anything it hides the ugly inside, and that is dangerous. It makes the cult look more appealing.

[Karma]

Meh, it's not like they're daisy dukes.  Same fundy, slightly different clothes.  Nothing to get excited about here IMO.

[Fluffy14]

4 hours ago, RabbitKM said:

Can you imagine!

But yeah, the outfit surprises me because she usually has a boho vibe, and this look is very preppy. 

Maybe on a 2 hand store budget with all the fashion constraints she could only go boho. Jeremy is more preppy so he is probably encouraging her to branch out. I am sure she will try all sorts of styles. She has  a LOT of catching up to do. It must be like someone taking a kid to the candy store and saying you can pick what you want after being on a sugar free diet.

[actuallyjessica]

the way jeremy was stuck on the shorts the first time he saw jinger in them (when they were in the canoes or whatever), he said it was good to see her in them. it was then i knew it wouldn't take long for her to be seen in pants. she'll be like alyssa bates, IMO. infact, it's taken less time for jinger to be seen in pants than it did for alyssa. apparently both couldn't wait to say 'i do' and put on some pants.

i've said this before, and i'll repeat it again: if the skirt wearing fundies were ok with pants wearing for no reason, there would be more pants wearing in these families. i'm talking about the duggars and bates here. if they were fine with their kids wearing pants and shorts and sleeveless tops, they'd be allowed to do it before marriage... but they aren't, so they don't.

taking it for what it is - a nice change in wardrobe.

[VeganCupcake]

6 hours ago, Purrl said:

I also think it  won't be long before we see Jessa & Joy (at least) in pants or shorts. I don't think Ben or Austin would mind. Both their sisters/moms wear pants, I believe, so it probably wouldn't be a big deal to them. I can see Ben saying, "Hey, the dress thing was your idea. I could care less." 

Jessa will never publicly wear shorts or pants (besides those water shorts). She's too committed to the brand. The skirts are a Duggar trademark. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I hope the shorts are a step towards Jinger being able to actually dress comfortably in Laredo during the Summer. I cant imagine it being 35/100+ degrees and having to worry about my ~modesty~ standards and covering up. 

[danni9242]

Shorts etc are so much more practical for so many things. I know they all claim you can learn to do anything in a skirt and it's not that hard, but seriously. 

I can see Joy changing over on the ranch for practicality with activities even with the parents being strict.

It's not about breaking away from being fundie but it's a sign some of them can at least question why they should always do certain things and decide some stuff really doesn't matter. These shorts are no less modest than a skirt.

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

After all - it's really just the continuation of what looks to be a move away from fundamentalism but is only really a move away from Gothardism. 

Exactly.  Or, more correctly, moving away from some of the silly clothing rules that Gothard insisted on and that IBLP is slowly dumping (along with Gothard himself.)  The core beliefs aren't being dumped though - the Patriarchy, female submission, world domination, and breeding for God's army.

For long-term observers it has been clear for years that a lot of extreme Fundies twigged that the modest clothing rules were't helping them spread that nasty message.  Insisting that the women dress like prairie muffins actually got in the way of it.  Vision Forum caught on to this earlier than IBLP.  

The Duggars and Bateses rather trapped themselves by touting ultra-modest dress and skirts- only in the earlier UnReality TV shows.  They did always say that to be skirts-only was a voluntary "personal conviction."   It is a big part of the story-line.

Even so, we've seen the gradual move towards letting the daughters dress in "modern modest" clothing with both Duggars and Bateses.  Naked knees in the younger generation have been observed for ages.  Sleeves have been getting shorter and even disappearing, necklines lower, and so on.  I'm damn sure some of the girls have been wearing pants, just not on camera.  

It is not a move away from Fundamentalism.  Actually it is more of cynical move to seem more approachable and main-stream for conversion purposes.

People who have been here for a while know that dress changes are not  evidence of significant change in beliefs.

@luxfilia, you can discuss fashion and the "whys" all you like (although be aware that some people find fashion nearly as boring as duvets.)  

However, as you seem to understand the issue, do your best to point out to some of the newer people here if it comes up - that Jinger's Headship letting her wear shorts in public is not "baby steps away from Fundamentalism."  It will save the rest of us some time.

As an aside, the expression "baby steps" has been used here so often that it makes me want to scream.

[Peabody Holmes Raptorsen]

8 hours ago, calimojo said:

Then we see the picture and 20 pages later we are still debating if she had an agenda with those shorts; Is jeremy an evil shorts forcer, or did she just decide to go for a new look

This made me giggle, but in all seriousness if I could like this a million times I would! 

It seems to me that the whole outfit (not just the much debated shorts) scream Jeremy's preppy (not knocking it, it's my preferred style too) style more that Jinger's more bo-ho one. Between the crisp button down, the color correlating shorts, the white little walking shoes, and the very put together side up do, she looks like Jeremy's mini-me to me haha. 

But in all seriousness as others have said here, sometimes clothing choices mean something and sometimes they are just what we put on our body so we don't get arrested for indecent exposure. For me the last vestige of fundimentalism I let go of were my below the knee skirts (I now even wear jeggings so long as my booty is covered *the horror!*) and even that didn't happen until about 6 months ago. Drinking alcohol? Totally fine. Living in sin? No prob! Showing a little knee? Oh Lawd no! 

I agree with others though that since this happened right after the "transfer of headship ceremony" it probably sadly has less to do with her becoming the beautiful free bo-ho hippie we all know she has deep within her and more to do with falling in line with Jeremy's preferances/ exploring clothing choices a little. Sadly I think that's where this train to freedom stops. Let's be real, she willingly married a fundimentalist preacher who's values seem to mirror her family's pretty closely based upon his sermons. I would predict that unless Jeremy wakes up and sees the light so to speak Jinger's will stay right where she's at beliefs-wise. 

 

[VineHeart137]

2 hours ago, VeganCupcake said:

Jessa will never publicly wear shorts or pants (besides those water shorts). She's too committed to the brand. The skirts are a Duggar trademark. 

Not to mention, she lives too close to home. Alyssa wears pants in Florida, but when her family is around or she goes to visit them, she reverts back to skirts. Not sure if that's something Kelly and Gil asked her to do or if she chooses to do it out of respect, but I imagine Jinger will probably do the same thing and only wear pants when not in the presence of her family. Jessa probably sees her family almost every day. Doesn't make sense to bother with pants if she can't wear them most of the time.

[Snarkle Motion]

Clothing choice is an expression of one's autonomy over their body and ability to make decisions about it. It may mean that she starts questioning birth control, particularly if her headship allows it which is still a step towards a better life for herself. 

I was not raised fundy but in an authoritarian home and I've always found their modesty rules less "modest" than some of my mom's which was essentially based on looking respectable. Like the idea of going into a church without stockings or open toed shoes would have been unacceptable. Fights about clothing and makeup (and even nail polish which was considered inappropriate for children/teens and if worn could only be natural colors) were some of my first steps of teenage rebellion.

[eyerollsforjesus]

8 hours ago, immodest_countenance said:

Her husband went to college and managed to get a Bachelors and a Masters degree, and the most Jinger has is MAYBE a GED. 

Jeremy "turned pro" before completing the Masters program so he only has a Bachelors degree. Not knocking his education, it's just a fact. 

[Palimpsest]

8 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

Clothing choice is an expression of one's autonomy over their body and ability to make decisions about it. It may mean that she starts questioning birth control, particularly if her headship allows it which is still a step towards a better life for herself. 

"If her headship allows it" - which is an example of Jinger attaining personal autonomy, how?

This is an example of over-interpretation and wishful thinking, I'm afraid.  Wearing shorts ≠ may be open to considering birth control.  As far as that goes, as the church Jeremy pastors runs an anti-choice pregnancy center - Jinger is really looking forward to working there - it doesn't sound as though he will allow it at all.  MMV.

[eyerollsforjesus]

So I was the one who first brought the photo to the old thread (right place right time on Facebook, I'm confident it would have been found otherwise). I hesitated sharing  it though because it was posted from a fan/stranger and they (The Vuolos) limit their social media activity. That said, I thought it was great to see her looking confident and casual in public and I hope she has a chance to mature and find herself in marriage. The previous conversation revolving around her facial weight gain made me really uncomfortable knowing her insecurities and again the fact they aren't teasing any pregnancies like her sisters do.

Do I think shorts make her free?

No.

Do I think an encouraging wardrobe discussion is more interesting than speculative honeymoon weight?

Yes.

But I know I have the choice to just ignore the threads when they go that route. Just wanted to explain my reasons for sharing what I saw. 

[formergothardite]

53 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

However, as you seem to understand the issue, do your best to point out to some of the newer people here if it comes up - that Jinger's Headship letting her wear shorts in public is not "baby steps away from Fundamentalism."  It will save the rest of us some time.

As an aside, the expression "baby steps" has been used here so often that it makes me want to scream.

Amen! Alyssa and Jinger's change in clothing is less baby steps away from fundamentalism and more a lateral move to being an ever so slightly different fundie. Same shitty beliefs, better clothing options. 

People should keep in mind that IBLP/ATI has been allowing women to wear pants at events for over a decade. The most die-hard IBLP/Gothard follower's family picture has his wife and daughters wearing tight, sleeveless shirts and pants/capri pants. And both Jinger and one of the Bates daughters have been shown wearing work out pants in their parents' houses even before marriage. We see a carefully scripted fake version of their lives, not what is really going on. 

1 minute ago, eyerollsforjesus said:

The previous conversation revolving around her facial weight gain made me really uncomfortable knowing her insecurities and again the fact they aren't teasing any pregnancies like her sisters do.

Me too. 

[drivingmishcrazy]

Someone remind me how tall Jinger is? Do we know? I know Jeremy is basically Legolas in height, all I can think of (after the surprise of Jinge in shorts) was god, she looks tiny. I mean I hate to sound gross, but it almost looks like a picture of a Junior at St. Mary's with her lacrosse coach.

[nst]

29 minutes ago, eyerollsforjesus said:

So I was the one who first brought the photo to the old thread (right place right time on Facebook, I'm confident it would have been found otherwise). I hesitated sharing  it though because it was posted from a fan/stranger and they (The Vuolos) limit their social media activity. That said, I thought it was great to see her looking confident and casual in public and I hope she has a chance to mature and find herself in marriage. The previous conversation revolving around her facial weight gain made me really uncomfortable knowing her insecurities and again the fact they aren't teasing any pregnancies like her sisters do.

Do I think shorts make her free?

No.

Do I think an encouraging wardrobe discussion is more interesting than speculative honeymoon weight?

Yes.

But I know I have the choice to just ignore the threads when they go that route. Just wanted to explain my reasons for sharing what I saw. 

I could care less about jinger's weight. What I care  about always are photos... they are the windows to what is going on. 

 

 

[singsingsing]

I think I remember hearing that Jill was the tallest girl at 5'6" (or 5'7"? Definitely no taller than that, though) so Jinger must be shorter. Maybe 5'4?

[VeganCupcake]

Hmm. I'm sure the shorts have at least something to do with her now being married, or else she probably would've been spotted out and about in shorts way sooner. I hope the "limiting social media" idea is not Jeremy's rule. Jinger loves photography so it seems like she'd enjoy having an instagram. 

Speaking of J&J, I can't believe they are still going along with the corny, weird congrats videos every time somebody starts courting. Whyyyy do they do this?? It can't be for the YouTube view$ because if so, wouldn't they post a lot more content? Whatever the reason it's strange creepy & awkward as hell.  

[hollywood]

Good lord y'all they haven't even been married a year yet. It takes more time to get over 23 years of that lifestyle. It may take 10 years or it may never happen. 

[SassyPants]

I wonder how long she's been wearing shorts? Personally, I would find it odd IF this was her first time (or close to it) and IF they are in what some might consider a work related event, and THIS is the time she decided to break out the shorts...I'm thinking she's hanging out in athletic wear at home. 

I'd be more impressed with them waiting on having that first baby, but they certainly seem happy.

Go Jinger!

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

I used to think fashion was completely superficial and vapid but a good friend of mine is a feminist and also studies fashion. She pointed out the agency of an individual creatively expressing themselves and how much we communicate via our clothing. Accessorizing goes back to Neanderthals after all. It's a core part of being human. So I don't think dress choice is entirely trivial. Wearing shorts could be a small act of agency in an otherwise oppressive patriarchal community. While it doesn't equal rejection of that system at all, it might signal a bit of independence.

Maybe Jinger's kids will have a less restrictive cultish upbringing free from IBLP anyway and chose more for themselves than she can. Even small acts that separate her from the cult are potentially positive. But the question remains about Jeremy and whether his religious beliefs are just another fundie cult- frying pan into the fire. So far I'm getting deeply conservative Christian but not a gothard type cult. The difference being the insular, cut members off from broader society aspect. He seems to engage with broader society at least...or is that wishful thinking?

I also feel like clothing matters more than people think. But I grew up as a tomboy. I realized at a young age that if I wanted to play and feel free in my body, I had to wear clothing that is more common for boys to wear. So no skirts, dresses, Mary Jane shoes etc. The most feminine of clothing can be restrictive. I actually feel like this about non fundie clothing. My feminist side gets irritated when I see teens going to dances and the girls are wear clothing and shoes that must be hard to dance in while the boys can move around and dance no problem. 

So that is why I like seeing fundies who always wear skirts and flip flops in activities made more difficult because of it, I hope that they feel more able to do things they find appealing. Do I think Jinger is suddenly non fundie? Fuck no. I have no hope for Jinger. But I'm always happy to see any female in clothing that is more practical. 

I know I see feminine clothing differently because of my life experience.