Mike Pence: Almost as bad as Trump but he might not get us killed

[Cartmann99]

Does anyone here follow the Maxwells? Remember how Steve quit his job because he was uncomfortable working with women? Mike Pence is Steve Maxwell!  

[nausicaa]

"If I refused to be alone with men I would have a hard time keeping a job. That men can have decades long careers without women says a lot." - Jill Filipovic

 

I saw this on Twitter and love it. I'm debating posting it on Facebook and dealing with the backlash from some of my family. 

[send*the*ferrets]

10 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I like the President. It's nice, after the most awful disaster has struck, that a good man is President and trying to do his best for the country. (Not saying the President has to be a man- a good woman would have worked too, but the detractors would have said the show was promoting Hillary.) Trump is not a good man, the Congress has too many vile people, and I don't feel like Trump is trying to do his best for his country. He's trying to do his best for Trump. In a weird way, the show gives me hope. 

I have never seen the show, and I literally reread the sentence "I like the president" 5 times trying to figure out what the heck you meant. "She LIKES HIM?! Even most of the people who voted for him don't like him, they just say it's better than Hillary"  

[Audrey2]

5 minutes ago, send*the*ferrets said:

I have never seen the show, and I literally reread the sentence "I like the president" 5 times trying to figure out what the heck you meant. "She LIKES HIM?! Even most of the people who voted for him don't like him, they just say it's better than Hillary"  

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I like Keiffer Sutherland as President Tom Kirkman in Designated Survivor. He's much more presidential than our current White House inhabitant. 

[GreyhoundFan]

6 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I like Keiffer Sutherland as President Tom Kirkman in Designated Survivor. He's much more presidential than our current White House inhabitant. 

My crazy dog is more presidential than the tangerine toddler.

[quiversR4hunting]

16 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I like Keiffer Sutherland as President Tom Kirkman in Designated Survivor. He's much more presidential than our current White House inhabitant. 

I liked Martin Sheen as Jed Bartlett.

Then again anyone remember the movie Dave? I would like Dave to be the President and do the budget!

Back to reality, anyone else which Pence is caught up with Russia with Trump? Who is #3 in line for the presidency?

[HarryPotterFan]

19 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

My crazy dog is more presidential than the tangerine toddler.

The kids who ran for school president in my 5th grade class would be a better president, both as 10 year olds and now. One of them warned us not to be fooled by the kids promising us pizza for lunch.

Can we just declare the results of the last election no good and put Hillary in charge?

8 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I liked Martin Sheen as Jed Bartlett.

Then again anyone remember the movie Dave? I would like Dave to be the President and do the budget!

Back to reality, anyone else which Pence is caught up with Russia with Trump? Who is #3 in line for the presidency?

Paul Ryan, i believe. But both Trump and Pence would need to be impeached at the same time for that to happen. Otherwise a new VP gets appointed.

[GreyhoundFan]

6 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

The kids who ran for school president in my 5th grade class would be a better president, both as 10 year olds and now. One of them warned us not to be fooled by the kids promising us pizza for lunch.

Can we just declare the results of the last election no good and put Hillary in charge?

Paul Ryan, i believe. But both Trump and Pence would need to be impeached at the same time for that to happen. Otherwise a new VP gets appointed.

You are correct, Ryan would be next in line, but Agent Orange and scary grandpa would have to be impeached and removed simultaneously. We need the first five to be removed at once, then we'd have Mattis.

[Audrey2]

31 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I liked Martin Sheen as Jed Bartlett.

Then again anyone remember the movie Dave? I would like Dave to be the President and do the budget!

Snip

 

At this point, Adam Sandler or Jim Carrey would be a much better President.

[GreyhoundFan]

39 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I liked Martin Sheen as Jed Bartlett.

Then again anyone remember the movie Dave? I would like Dave to be the President and do the budget!

Back to reality, anyone else which Pence is caught up with Russia with Trump? Who is #3 in line for the presidency?

I remember Dave. That was a good movie. And, yes, I'd like him to be the president and do the budget. I think the sweetest thing was that he got such joy out of things. I'm thinking of the montage of scenes like him throwing out the first pitch, eating a donut in front of Schwarzenegger, rolling around on the south lawn with the dogs, and operating the robotic arms at the factory. Also, when he picks up the pen from the podium in the press room and says, "can I keep this?" with a smile. Agent Orange and Pence don't seem to be joyful about anything.

Edited March 31, 2017 by GreyhoundFan

[Cartmann99]

30 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Then again anyone remember the movie Dave? I would like Dave to be the President and do the budget

I had a really bad day a few weeks ago, and decided to retreat from the world to bake cookies and watch Dave again. I noticed something this last time that slipped by me in earlier viewings. At the very end of the movie, when the new president is being sworn in, the voiceover says that he is the 45th president of the United States. 

I immediately thought of Trump, and started swearing. 

3 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

I remember Dave. That was a good movie. And, yes, I'd like him to be the president and do the budget. I think the sweetest thing was that he got such joy out of things. I'm thinking of the montage of scenes like him throwing out the first pitch, eating a donut in front of Schwarzenegger, rolling around on the south lawn with the dogs, and operating the robotic arms at the factory. Also, when he picks up the pen from the podium in the press room and says, "can I keep this?" with a smile. Agent Orange and Pence don't seem to be joyful about anything.

I always cry when they rework the budget to save the funding for the homeless shelter. 

[Audrey2]

3 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Agent Orange and Pence don't seem to be joyful about anything.

You need to have a soul to be joyful, not these black holes that Trump and Pence have. They and the Irish Undertaker make the pre-conversion Grinch and Ebenezer Scrooge look like benevolent grandfather's. All three seem more like the dentist in Little Shop of Horrors.

[louisa05]

Pence and his "Billy Graham Rule" is making my blood boil. 

For those that don't know Pence's "never be alone with a woman" rule is known in evangelical circles as the "Billy Graham Rule" because Graham popularized it. 

I knew many men who practiced this when I worked at Christian school. I just read a column on Salon where the writer and most of the commenters were saying "meh, whatever" about this and referring to it as his "social rule". 

It is not merely a social rule. Men who do this apply it to every situation including professional ones. One man I worked with would not walk into the teacher workroom if only a woman was present. If he was in a hurry, he would sometimes stand at the door and ask you if you could step out for a moment so he could come in and do whatever it was he needed to do. Women could not say no to that or we would be told by the admins that we were "not letting him honor his marriage". I taught English and social studies there. The other two social studies teachers for a few years were male. One applied this rule. I could not walk into his classroom before or after school to ask a question or borrow something if no one was in the room. He would also not come into mine. The other did not follow this rule. At first. He was older than me and a great teacher, so I often went to him for advice, ideas, etc... After a few months, I was called into the principal's office and told to stop doing so because he was married. I was told that our having conversations alone in his classroom looked bad. He was also taken aside and told to stop and to no longer be seen alone with female staff and that he should employ the same rule our other colleague did. By the end of that year, the norm was for me to be entirely left out of interdepartmental matters in the absence of formal meetings. (This was mid 90s when email was not ubiquitous...perhaps that would have allowed them to communicate with me--but then again, I know evangelical men who will not email unrelated women either). 

I guarantee that Pence will not have a private meeting with a female person in his capacity as Vice President. Men who follow this nonsense will never do so. If he needed to privately discuss classified information with a female official, he would pull in someone without clearance to sit in the meeting before he would follow security protocol. That is how they roll. 

This is not a "social" thing. And it demeans women, keeps them out of leadership roles, hurts their ability to function in the workplace, and generally excludes them. 

[Childless]

45 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Pence and his "Billy Graham Rule" is making my blood boil. 

For those that don't know Pence's "never be alone with a woman" rule is known in evangelical circles as the "Billy Graham Rule" because Graham popularized it. 

I knew many men who practiced this when I worked at Christian school. I just read a column on Salon where the writer and most of the commenters were saying "meh, whatever" about this and referring to it as his "social rule". 

It is not merely a social rule. Men who do this apply it to every situation including professional ones. One man I worked with would not walk into the teacher workroom if only a woman was present. If he was in a hurry, he would sometimes stand at the door and ask you if you could step out for a moment so he could come in and do whatever it was he needed to do. Women could not say no to that or we would be told by the admins that we were "not letting him honor his marriage". I taught English and social studies there. The other two social studies teachers for a few years were male. One applied this rule. I could not walk into his classroom before or after school to ask a question or borrow something if no one was in the room. He would also not come into mine. The other did not follow this rule. At first. He was older than me and a great teacher, so I often went to him for advice, ideas, etc... After a few months, I was called into the principal's office and told to stop doing so because he was married. I was told that our having conversations alone in his classroom looked bad. He was also taken aside and told to stop and to no longer be seen alone with female staff and that he should employ the same rule our other colleague did. By the end of that year, the norm was for me to be entirely left out of interdepartmental matters in the absence of formal meetings. (This was mid 90s when email was not ubiquitous...perhaps that would have allowed them to communicate with me--but then again, I know evangelical men who will not email unrelated women either). 

I guarantee that Pence will not have a private meeting with a female person in his capacity as Vice President. Men who follow this nonsense will never do so. If he needed to privately discuss classified information with a female official, he would pull in someone without clearance to sit in the meeting before he would follow security protocol. That is how they roll. 

This is not a "social" thing. And it demeans women, keeps them out of leadership roles, hurts their ability to function in the workplace, and generally excludes them. 

Fuck that nonsense.  I would not have left the room.  Let them try and fire me.  I would sue.  

The worst part is, it teaches female students that they are worth less than men and there is something inherently wrong with them and teaches male students that they are unable to control themselves and are untrustworthy.  No wonder fundies seem to have terrible self-esteem.  It's not healthy enforcing the mindset that no matter who you are, you're trash.

[louisa05]

1 minute ago, Childless said:

Fuck that nonsense.  I would not have left the room.  Let them try and fire me.  I would sue.  

The worst part is, it teaches female students that they are worth less than men and there is something inherently wrong with them and teaches male students that they are unable to control themselves and are untrustworthy.  No wonder fundies seem to have terrible self-esteem.  It's not healthy enforcing the mindset that no matter who you are, you're trash.

I find it incredibly arrogant on the part of the men, too. Pence, my male colleagues and every man who practices this basically believe that, given the slightest opportunity, every woman they meet wants to have a sexual relationship of some sort with them. 

Seriously, no. Not even. I think probably 99.99999999999999% of women are choosier than that. 

[RoseWilder]

26 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I find it incredibly arrogant on the part of the men, too. Pence, my male colleagues and every man who practices this basically believe that, given the slightest opportunity, every woman they meet wants to have a sexual relationship of some sort with them. 

Seriously, no. Not even. I think probably 99.99999999999999% of women are choosier than that. 

Exactly. I'm so confused by these people who have such rigid rules. Do they really think that whenever men and women are alone together, they're ripping each other's clothes off. Normal, stable, non-perverted grown-ups manage to make it through the day while interacting with dozens (sometimes hundreds) of people of the opposite sex and somehow still not have sex with any of them. 

These fundie types act like they have superior morals and standards, but I think their rigid rules make them seem like people who have no self control and no standards. 

[RoseWilder]

The Rachel Maddow Show was fantastic last night, as always. She's really been knocking it out of the park with her Russia coverage. Today, Raw Story is talking about one aspect of her show last night that relates to Mike Pence: 

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/rachel-maddow-mike-pences-role-in-flynns-scandal-is-flashing-like-a-red-beacon/

Quote

Over and over, Rachel Maddow has questioned how it is possible that Vice President Mike Pence couldn’t have known that Gen. Mike Flynn was lying about his Russia conversation.

In a March 9 interview with Bret Baier on Fox News, Pence swore that the story about Flynn lobbying for Turkey was news to him. “[H]earing that story — today is the first [he’s] hearing of it,” he told Baier, who asked him the question twice, just to be sure.

“That cannot be true,” Maddow remarked.

Thursday, Maddow came back to her examination of Pence, as PoliticusUSA noted. Pence was the head of the Trump transition team after Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) was booted from the job. Presumably, Flynn was vetted by that transition team, which would have brought up these concerns.

“As leader of the transition, he was notified in writing by members of Congress about Flynn’s apparent financial ties to the government of Turkey,” Maddow outlined, referring back to a letter sent by Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD). “The transition was also apparently notified twice by Flynn’s own lawyers about his financial relationship with the government of Turkey, but nevertheless, Vice President Mike Pence says he has no idea about any of that.”

Maddow pointed out that Pence claims he knew nothing despite being notified multiple times.

“Mike Pence’s role in the Mike Flynn scandal is flashing like a red beacon for anyone who sees him as the normal Republican in this setting,” she continued.

 

 

[RoseWilder]

John Pavlovitz, a progressive minister, has written a blog post in response to Mike Pence's refusal to be alone with a woman: 

 

[Cartmann99]

I had to run an errand earlier today, and ended up listening to political talk radio in the car. The topics were: Democrats, not Russians are the real enemies of America, assorted cheerleading for Trump and his administration, an ignorant discussion about the LGBTQ community, and the rules that Mike Pence and his wife have about his interactions with other women. 

On the last topic, they came to the conclusion that liberals obviously hate marriage, don't value it like conservatives do, and would like to break up Mike Pence's marriage for some reason or another. 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, Cartmann99 said:

I had to run an errand earlier today, and ended up listening to political talk radio in the car. The topics were: Democrats, not Russians are the real enemies of America, assorted cheerleading for Trump and his administration, an ignorant discussion about the LGBTQ community, and the rules that Mike Pence and his wife have about his interactions with other women. 

On the last topic, they came to the conclusion that liberals obviously hate marriage, don't value it like conservatives do, and would like to break up Mike Pence's marriage for some reason or another. 

Silly liberal me, I thought a healthy marriage meant trusting one another...clearly I hate marriage.

[Cartmann99]

2 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Silly liberal me, I thought a healthy marriage meant trusting one another...clearly I hate marriage.

I've been married to the same man for over 20 years. I really suck at this liberal thing. 

[onekidanddone]

2 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

I've been married to the same man for over 20 years. I really suck at this liberal thing. 

I might have said this before.. so humor me.  When marriage equity passed in Maryland i called two of my married friends and told them they would have to get divorced. After, all those gays just want to ruin traditional marriage.  Do the fundys have any idea how ridiculous they are? Hell they can be as bat shit crazy as they want.  I just want them to fuck off and stop trying to legislate their freaked out so call morals on me.

I hope SNL does a skit on Mikey and is fear of women

[HarryPotterFan]

43 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I hope SNL does a skit on Mikey and is fear of women

I hope someone in a vagina costume jumps out at him from behind a bush.

[onekidanddone]

2 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I hope someone in a vagina costume jumps out at him from behind a bush.

I'd pay money to see that.

[GreyhoundFan]

This is an interesting article comparing and contrasting several political marriages. I put it here because of the talk about Pence's implementation of the Billy Graham rule. "What Clinton and Pence have in common: Their marriages are our favorite soap operas"

Quote

For Americans, the first couple, or even the second couple, for that matter, offers a lens through which we work out our own complex feelings about the institution of marriage and the role of women. In their first hundred days, President Trump and Vice President Pence have given us the ultimate contrast: a couple who don’t live together and a couple who stay unusually — perhaps unnervingly — close.  

The Trump and Pence marriages represent the jumble sale that is Republican values in 2017, from the thrice-married big-city philanderer with a habit of viewing women as ornaments to the conservative evangelical Christian who seems to simultaneously respect women and fear their sexual wiles. Still, there may be more to learn by comparing the Trump and Pence marriages not with each other but with those of the Democrats who preceded them. 

During the unfolding drama of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s marriage, questioning Hillary Clinton’s decision-making became a proxy for discussing the fears that came with a new era of opportunity for women. Why did someone so talented follow Bill Clinton to Arkansas in the first place? Why did she not merely stay with her husband when he cheated, but defend him? Speculation about Hillary Clinton’s motives and choices was rarely entirely about her: It was a way to indulge our own morbid fancies about how we would behave in her place. If the Clintons’ marriage was a fate to be avoided, the Obamas’ marriage was the one to emulate — or to feel insecure about not matching. The Obamas went on dates . They teased each other . Essence shot a 2016 portrait of the couple so swooningly romantic, and so focused on the first lady’s sex appeal, that it could have been an engagement photo. For some voters, the Obamas’ example was a particularly satisfying rebuke to the ugly stereotype of dysfunctional black families. For others, as “Hillbilly Elegy” author J.D. Vance suggested, the Obamas’ success as spouses and parents cast an uncomfortable light on their constituents’ struggles in those roles.

By this measure, Trump’s own mixed marital track record might seem relatable or reassuring. Yet proximity to the Obamas, who represented a modern ideal of egalitarian marriage, highlights how unusually formal and old-fashioned Trump’s marriage to Melania Trump seems. 

Where Michelle Obama posts vacation photos of her sandy feet tangled with her husband’s, Melania Trump constantly seems to be four or five steps behind a husband who doesn’t bother to wait for her, much less to take her hand. Even before her decision to continue to live in New York, the Trumps occupied spheres so separate that they didn’t even appear together to project an image of marital unity after a leaked tape revealed Trump making comments about grabbing women without their consent. Trump taped an apology; his wife was interviewed in their gilded apartment, talking about the challenges of parenting both her husband and her young son. 

To some of Trump’s supporters, this relationship is an ideal: a marriage defined by strict gender roles, where the woman’s main obligations are to look gorgeous and stay home, and the man isn’t just the head of his family, but his family exists to serve him. Other observers see Melania Trump as a victim blinking desperately for freedom. The people in these camps don’t talk to each other, but they illustrate just how divided American ideas about marriage are. 

By comparison with the Trumps, who sometimes seem to be testing how little time you can spend together and actually consider yourselves married, the Pences appear inseparable. The nature of their closeness sparked a firestorm this week when a profile of Karen Pence in The Post called attention to remarks Mike Pence made in 2002 about how he doesn’t dine alone with women not his wife, and won’t attend functions where alcohol is served without her. (In the 2002 interview, Pence said he also often turns down invitations to drink or dine with men.)

Much of the resulting commentary focused on the way this so-called Billy Graham rule is based on a vision of men as weak lechers and women as temptresses and how following it could deny women critically important opportunities to do their jobs. Even granting that the couple’s critics could be correct about the consequences of the Pences’ rigid worldview, few seemed to consider it possible that the couple adheres to these rules out of a genuine dedication to their marriage. 

...

That isn’t the only way the Pences function as a funhouse mirror of the Clintons. Like the Pences this week, Hillary Clinton’s work to save her marriage has long been greeted with more disdain than empathy. Choose to stay in a marriage after repeated infidelity and you’re a feminist sell-out. Take extreme-sounding steps to avoid becoming someone who strays and you’re a right-wing, sexist loon. 

...