Counting On: Season 3, Part 4: Fake Glares to Hide the Obvious

[front hugs > duggs]

So interesting seeing Jinger in a near sleeveless dress, or when any fundies get married and can suddenly have looser clothing restrictions. Pretty sure whenever the fundie girls have explained modest wedding dress apparel, or modest apparel in general, they claim that it's what they feel most comfortable in. So let's say Jinger liked her lace sleeves and high neckline because that's what she feels most comfortable in. Does this mean she is now uncomfortable in this new honeymoon dress? Was she lying about comfort being why they dress modestly, or is their comfort level strictly dependent upon what their headship says they are comfortable in? (not actual questions).

It makes me so mad! I would say in general I have been slower over the past decade to embrace my inner feminist. Now, if my husband politely asks me to do something for him (nothing crazy of course, just like - hey can you please pass me my phone?) I stand up and shout "I AM AN INDEPENDENT WOMAN AND I DON'T TAKE NO SH!T FROM NO ONE!" and then I smile and hand him his phone.

I would loveeeeeeee Jill to say this to Derick

[WhoompThereItIs]

11 hours ago, brookeb82 said:

Anyone notice the stank eye Jinger gave the Australian chef when she told them to calm down the PDA? Also, Jinger definitely says "definitely" way too often. Definitely. 

I thought she was Katie Holmes for a second.

[BeckaBoots]

19 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I work at a Fortune 500 Company in the US and while I'm not anywhere near ready to have a child, the outlook is pretty daunting. The company policy on maternity leave is the government minimum (12 weeks unpaid), which is horrible IMO. Then, we had a women's panel, where four women who are high up in the company, answered questions about being a female in a corporate workplace. When asked about work-life balance, one said how her mom does everything for her regarding childcare. Um. This isn't an option for everyone! Certainly not me. It was soooo super discouraging to hear how difficult being a successful professional and successful mother may be. I definitely feel envy for my English in-laws and their seemingly endless bank holidays and family leave.

ETA: I love my job. I want to work and I want to have a family. This shouldn't be impossible.

I work in the Middle East and the company I work for the maternity leave is 50 days!  I'm so glad we had our family before heading out this way,

[karen77]

13 hours ago, sparklymagie said:

I live in the suburbs of a good sized city (but maybe not considered one of the huge metropolitan cities of the US) and that's what I pay. I have friends who live within city limits and they pay more. One of them has three kids in daycare and pays $3,000.00 a month, which includes a discount she gets for having multiple children in the daycare. My blood runs cold thinking about it. 

I have a 4 year old (so the cheapest child care bracket ....younger is more expensive as ratios are smaller) and I pay 835 a month, we are in the middle range for pricing too. Probably on the low end for a daycare center though (YMCA).  Luckily I make plenty, so it's not really an issue, and wasn't even when I had a 4 year old and a baby (900+ now) at the same time in full time daycare. 

[VeganCupcake]

9 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

That is a wild fast track courtship. I can't imagine going from starting to date to engaged in two months... I hope they had time somewhere in there to get to know each other, but probably not, because Jesus.

I'm pretty sure after the Josiah fiasco, they decided no more courtships until you're sure about marriage. So J&J have probably been talking much longer than they've been "officially" a couple. 

9 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I actually always thought Michelle was the one who led JB into it and he went along because he was already quite religious but mostly because he was obsessed with her. 

Thoughts? 

You could be right. Idk if they've ever said whose idea it was to homeschool & join ATI. But JB met Michelle on a "church visitation" thing, and went to Christian school so he at least started out much more hard-core Christian than Michelle. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

19 minutes ago, VeganCupcake said:

I'm pretty sure after the Josiah fiasco, they decided no more courtships until you're sure about marriage. So J&J have probably been talking much longer than they've been "officially" a couple. 

You could be right. Idk if they've ever said whose idea it was to homeschool & join ATI. But JB met Michelle on a "church visitation" thing, and went to Christian school so he at least started out much more hard-core Christian than Michelle. 

Yeah, I know he started out more fundie and definitely didn't have any objections. I just always assumed Michelle had a breakdown after the miscarriage and pushed to go crazy town and to JB it was partly about Jesus but mostly a way to show folks how much sex he could have with a cheerleader. She really seems to be in charge to me in that relationship. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

According to their Facebook page (Paul-Christina Caldwell) they were married in January 1998. So the oldest daughter, assuming there was no hanky panky before marriage, couldn't be more than 18.

Her parents were married in 1998? 

1 hour ago, WhoompThereItIs said:

I thought she was Katie Holmes for a second.

What's on her neck?

[justmy2cents]

41 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Her parents were married in 1998? 

Yes, that's correct. Pastor Paul and his wife.  Even with a honeymoon baby, their oldest would have just turned 18 in October or November.  Joe did say that he was no where near marriage if he's even getting to know one of them.

[JMO]

I'm interested to see the cooking bit play out on the episode.  I'm wondering if the chef is upset since they are in front of the hot stove.  It's quite possible that a minute earlier she had warned them about snogging around a hot stove and being careful in the kitchen and they ignored her as soon as her back was turned.  We'll see.

As for daycare, y'all don't want to know what I pay.  My 4 yr old is over $2000/month.  When the baby starts later this summer at the same place it's almost $2500/month.  And they will have a few week overlap when we will get a slight discount on the older one and pay $1100/week.  I'm trying to concentrate on the miles we will get (they accept credit!) Last year we flew 3 times on miles, (2 shorter trips for the 3 of us and then first class cross country for my husband and I. )  I'm pretty sure our miles are back up to their highest point again.  

[front hugs > duggs]

Glad you get miles out of it! 

My uncle can pay his child support on his credit card, which he only found out when the state kept losing his checks and wanted to find another way to pay so that wouldn't happen anymore. He gets miles for his child support payments! 

[sparklymagie]

15 minutes ago, JMO said:

 I'm trying to concentrate on the miles we will get (they accept credit!) Last year we flew 3 times on miles, (2 shorter trips for the 3 of us and then first class cross country for my husband and I. )  I'm pretty sure our miles are back up to their highest point again.  

Omg.  Why have I not thought of paying with a mileage earning card before now?? That's brilliant.  BRB, need to make a phone call to the daycare. 

[karen77]

28 minutes ago, sparklymagie said:

Omg.  Why have I not thought of paying with a mileage earning card before now?? That's brilliant.  BRB, need to make a phone call to the daycare. 

THis is what we do also!

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

Ok just watched the second half of the episode. Favorite part is when they are lighting the unity candle with a lighter cause they can't get the candles out of the holder! I couldn't stop giggling about it. The way they dealt with it was actually kind of cute but so unfortunate.

[MayMay1123]

all of you paying $$$$$$ for childcare...remember that your child's caregiver, the person you are trusting your baby to...is likely making minimum wage...and certainly not more than $10/hour, which is the most i ever made at a daycare center. you could probably pay a nanny that $4500 a month, or less...i would do it for a lot less! around here most people who need daycare have subsidies to help with the cost...but the owners are getting paid a bunch!

[CorruptionInc.]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

So interesting seeing Jinger in a near sleeveless dress, or when any fundies get married and can suddenly have looser clothing restrictions. Pretty sure whenever the fundie girls have explained modest wedding dress apparel, or modest apparel in general, they claim that it's what they feel most comfortable in. So let's say Jinger liked her lace sleeves and high neckline because that's what she feels most comfortable in. Does this mean she is now uncomfortable in this new honeymoon dress? Was she lying about comfort being why they dress modestly, or is their comfort level strictly dependent upon what their headship says they are comfortable in? (not actual questions).

When JinJer were in Sydney, it was very hot at the time. 

Well, not hot as such, but it was near 100% humidity which is very sticky. I don't blame her for wearing sleeveless clothes. Plus Jeremy maybe bought her some outfits?

I was there for work at the time. I come from a non-humid city so I was suffering a bit...

[socalrules]

It is possible that Jinger already owned the dress we just never saw pictures of her in it. She could have been wearing it with a sweater all the time. We know how fundies love to make clothes more modest. 

[Pancakes@Tiffany's]

23 hours ago, nst said:

I was finally able to downoald the episode.

i find Jeremy and jinge are totally snobbish.  They come across as too good for the show. Jinge clearly escaped.

she escaped the tth yes but she didn't escape her family.

 

"snobbish" In what sense? 

[Kelsey]

I get the snobbish. Jeremy tends to seem like he's talking down to the Duggars and Jinger seems like she can't wait to flee the coop (I don't blame her). She just seems like she's DONE with the tth.

[picklepizzas]

So in these families with "getting to know you periods" like the duggars and bates - do we know much about how that starts? Does the guy come to the dad and say "I would like to enter a get to know you but not quite a courtship?" 

[Tangy Bee]

9 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Her parents were married in 1998? 

What's on her neck?

Say what?!! Wow, I'm shocked it's so visible. Those look like classic "love marks". Some folks called them hickies. I usually see them on alot of teenagers. 

[choralcrusader8613]

5 minutes ago, picklepizzas said:

So in these families with "getting to know you periods" like the duggars and bates - do we know much about how that starts? Does the guy come to the dad and say "I would like to enter a get to know you but not quite a courtship?" 

If I remember correctly, at least in Duggarville, the guy goes to Jim Bob and asks for the girl's phone number so they can talk. Obviously everything is done in a group text (aren't those iPhones convenient?) or a supervised phone call/FaceTime, and they get to know each other better by families hanging out at church stuff or the kids doing some kind of sport thing together.

[Berty K]

1 hour ago, picklepizzas said:

 

So in these families with "getting to know you periods" like the duggars and bates - do we know much about how that starts? Does the guy come to the dad and say "I would like to enter a get to know you but not quite a courtship?"

 

I think the guy is supposed to show an interest in the family as a whole - go over and help the boys work on something (free labor for boob), participate in "home church" and bible study. Here they can observe the girl they're interested in somewhat closer but still from a distance. If this goes well then Boob engineers closer times together - like saying "oh hey jslave why don't you study Romans with our new friend Mike here?" Then they will sit at the kitchen table and/or group text about biblical studies. It's basically the most time intensive way to not really get to know someone and then you'll probably end up courting/marrying them.  

[Coconut Flan]

They would have to go to the IFB church now.  There is no more home church or warehouse church.   It's actually a bit easier that way.

[grandmadugger]

22 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I actually always thought Michelle was the one who led JB into it and he went along because he was already quite religious but mostly because he was obsessed with her. 

Thoughts? 

 

I've suspected it was Michelle for awhile.  I don't remember the interview but they were asked about what the kids could do as jobs in the future.  JB was talking about how Jill wanted to be a nurse and such and Michelle shot him down with the girls ultimate job was to be a wife and mother.  It made it seem like JB would have been OK with the girls have regular lives it was Michelle that reduced them to wife and mother.

[VeganCupcake]

17 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

It made it seem like JB would have been OK with the girls have regular lives it was Michelle that reduced them to wife and mother.

Maybe. JB seems like a SUPER controlling person. Maybe if they weren't into the fundie cult, he would have just been a mainstream controlling helicopter parent. He infantilizes all his kids just like my parents & all the other adults I grew up around who were apart of this cult. I hate the way he always says "Hey, children" every time before he makes some bossy announcement……his tone sounds eerily like my dad. (Was it an ATI rule not to address your children as kids?)