The Boyer Sisters: Part 4

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, katilac said:

Thought weeds that climax and spread their seed? She has got to be trolling.

What? Your thoughts don't ejaculate all over the place? Just me? 

[Palimpsest]

12 minutes ago, katilac said:

Thought weeds that climax and spread their seed? She has got to be trolling.

Gabe would like us to think so.  I'm not so sure.  Young Charlotte is pretty naive and we all obviously have dirty minds that need much weeding.  Or herbicide.

1 hour ago, catlady said:

i know i do.  as an atheist, i have no fear of sin or hell or damnation.  but i choose to live as you describe because i have no desire to hurt other people or otherwise damage the world around me.  not because i have to, but because i want to and choose to of my own free will.  yes, i have bad days and have my faults, but i have never been arrested/committed a crime (traffic violations excepted), cheated on a partner, caused injury, disparaged my family...you get the idea.  

Exactly.  I'm far from perfect but, even as an atheist going to hell in a hand-basket, I've managed to stay law abiding, ethical, faithful to my spouse, donate time and money to charitable causes without tithing, and generally try my best not to hurt others.

I'm don't know why Fundies think they have the monopoly on decent behavior.

[jozina]

A psychiatrist would have a field day with that blog post.  Talk about repressed thoughts and desires.  That's so funny!

Brigid looks ghastly.  The dress is ill fitting and all, but she looks so gaunt and pale compared to a few months ago.  Poor dear.  Either that or it was an incredibly unflattering shade and light (though the others look fine). Married life and gourmet cooking with Gabe-needs-a-new-hairdo-which-doesn't-make-him-look-creepy-as-creepy-can-be doesn't suit her maybe.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Another atheist, faithful law-abiding person here. Never been arrested. I do work and pay taxes, try to raise a kind, polite, hardworking kid as well. But I'm sure the fundues would still damn me to hell, for several reasons. Pre-marital sex, broken engagement, living in my own for a long time. 

[ChunkyBarbie]

I grow veggies in mine. 

[ladyamylynn]

My mental garden keeps sprouting these lovely flowers!

[ChunkyBarbie]

Because I'm real mature. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

30 minutes ago, ChunkyBarbie said:

Because I'm real mature. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krgUVduKFL4

 

[catlady]

This grew in my garden last year. 

[Kariina]

Oh my god y'all, I'm rolling. Welcome to the FJ County Fair, blue ribbons for the dirtiest veggies from the most polluted thought gardens!!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

12 hours ago, catlady said:

i know i do.  as an atheist, i have no fear of sin or hell or damnation.  but i choose to live as you describe because i have no desire to hurt other people or otherwise damage the world around me.  not because i have to, but because i want to and choose to of my own free will.  yes, i have bad days and have my faults, but i have never been arrested/committed a crime (traffic violations excepted), cheated on a partner, caused injury, disparaged my family...you get the idea.  

Yes this! Here everybody is at least culturally Catholic even if there are fewer and fewer practicing ones. I chose to exclude my daughter from religious ed (yes it's done in public kindergartens too, thank you lay state)  and chatting with other non religious mom they told me they didn't because teachers are pissed when parents choose the alternative activities (my decision wasn't contested just ignored and when I found out  my daughter threw a fit because she likes her rel ed teacher and wants to do what other children do) and "because of values". It's true that Catholicism stresses a lot on doing good deeds and love to the neighbours and such, but there are  Catholic values that I definitely don't want for her and I would have preferred a civics class (it's never too early to learn civics imho).

Christians don't have a monopoly of values and moral. Ethics can absolutely exist separatedly from religion.  

The thing is that religions were born as a form of ethics, more specifically as a binding form of ethics. There often was no concept of laity, laws had a religious value and had to be respected not only to grant the survival or the orderly life of the community but also because all sort of hell would break loose. Religion made ethics binding in the minds of people, gave a meaning to the unknown and the unexplained and was a way to keep order in their world. If you check the meaning of the latin verb "religo" from which (according to a majority of scholars) comes the noun "religio" you will see that it means "to bind". This was the true problem that the Roman Empire had with Christianity.  Christians refused to be binded to the official Roman religion. The problem was solved only when Christianity became the official binding religion. I call it moral dictatorship. 

This said I don't see why two thousands years later we must still be binded by the same spell laws and morals must be the monopoly of a religion that considers its law morally superior to the lay state laws (try to have it applied to Ilam and sharia and you will see what all those religious-morals-is-the-only-way people true colors are).

[spookytwoshoes]

New post up on the Boyer Sisters blog and it contains this sentence... 

"The worst part was, I just couldn’t seem to get off." 

She was talking about being on a roller coaster of fear but still...the Freudian slips are killing me. 

 

[jozina]

" commune within your own heart upon your bed"

Such a great bible passage to pick. 

[BobTheWalrus]

On 02/03/2017 at 6:41 PM, refugee said:

Now I'm puzzled. I admit, I don't follow their blog or notice their FB posts (I'm seldom on FB these days, for various reasons). Is Father Boyer always this sour in photos, as I've picked up from a comment?

Which makes me wonder. Is part of their conventional wisdom that being a Patriarch is a Serious Business that consumes a man and haunts him at all times? Is Gabe going to become sour-faced as soon as the worries of fatherhood descend upon him? Is the old patriarch disapproving of the women at the ball with skirts above the knees? (Flaming temptresses, all.)

Is the Patriarchal life not all he envisioned it to be?

His eyes look sad, or angry, or maybe both.

His expression says to me that he's sick of this BS and wishes his family weren't such obsessive weirdos.

[nastyhobbitses]

Law-abiding, charity-donating (albeit to human rights, immigration, and pro-choice charities), ethical culturally/philosophically Jewish atheist. I realized that I didn't believe in God when I was 10 (but continued Jewish observances because I enjoy the culture and the teachings), and somehow I manage to be a functioning, contributing member of society without a sometimes-genocidal, shrimp-hating Sky Wizard telling me to be. That being said, Jewish teachings about morality and justice do motivate why I strive to be an ethical, good person: the idea that doing selfless, good things for others is just the bare minimum of being a human (when you're a kid, you think that "mitzvah" means "good deed", but it actually means "commandment" -- you are COMMANDED to be charitable and seek social justice), that you should call out injustice and seek to end it, that you should welcome the stranger and be sympathetic to those who suffer as we did, and that questioning and learning are how you grow and improve as a person.

I think that religion can be a wonderful thing (or why else would I continue to observe Jewish holidays and incorporate Jewish teachings into my life despite not believing in a higher power), and if religion motivates you to be a good person, that's great. But religion doesn't have a monopoly on goodness and I just can't get behind belief systems that say that no matter how good or ethical or just a person is, if they don't pray the right way, they're bad people.

[Palimpsest]

Quote

 

How do you cope with worry?

 

Meditation helps.  You would call that prayer, Jessica.  So does actively working to identify the problem and source of the worry, anxiety and fear.  Once you have done that you can move on to try to solve the problem.  You can try to set goals, objectives and take concrete actions.  Going in circles and blaming yourself is not productive - and that is what you have been doing.

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What has God taught you about worry/fear?

Common sense and experience have taught me that getting professional counseling is a good thing.  I also don't think God, your God, is against it.  I prefer secular counseling, but there are plenty of well-trained Christian counselors out there.  Look for one.  It is no shame to reach out to people outside your family.  It is also no shame to take prescribed medication if you need it.  The need may only be temporary.

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Add on the simple fact that I am a woman, and you just made that process even more difficult.

Stop falling for Patriarchal propaganda and pull yourself together, young lady.  It's not because because you are a woman.  It is because you seem to be stuck in a life-style that limits your choices, doesn't give you enough to do, and you end up focused on your faults instead of your strengths.  Think about those strengths instead.

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It’s easy to worry! A woman doesn’t have to look further than her own self to find a plethora of worry-perfect material.  Charlotte wrote in her post that our own appearances can cause us to become discontent and envious, both of which breed anxiety. 

We've discussed this before.  The two of you should stop worrying about your appearances (you are both very pretty) and think more about what you are doing with your brains.  If you must worry, worry about getting some more education.  Think about broadening your social circle.  Do some volunteer work, for goodness sake!  Stop berating yourself and breeding anxiety.

And that should read "can cause us to become discontented."  Pet peeve.

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So He puts up another stop sign, this time it’s a family member. They ask if anything is wrong. They’ve observed that something seems a little off about me. 

So have I.  In fact, you worry me.

Quote

For example, my shoulder cramps up whenever I am stressed/worried. I also get heartburn, which ironically shows up during my favorite de-stressing activity–walking! Usually, that means that things are really bad. I experienced a lot of days in which shoulder and heartburn both flared up at the same time. It felt like I was falling apart! 

That is not good.  Cognitive behavioral therapy with a qualified professional could be a huge help here.

For the love of little kittens, Mr. Boyer.  If nothing else, Jessica's self-esteem is somewhere around her ankles.  She is miserable, stuck in a vicious cycle, and prayer alone is not the answer.

This should not go on.  Get her to a qualified therapist.  Now!

[formergothardite]

Jessica needs to real help. She worries me a lot. Last year her entire life and sense of self fell to pieces. She watched her dreams be crushed, and it is clear she isn't over it. 

@Gabe, please encourage her to go to a real counselor. There are plenty of good Christian ones. 

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Jessica needs to real help. She worries me a lot. Last year her entire life and sense of self fell to pieces. She watched her dreams be crushed, and it is clear she isn't over it. 

@Gabe, please encourage her to go to a real counselor. There are plenty of good Christian ones. 

Yes, I thought about tagging Gabe.  I wasn't sure it would do any good coming from me - he appears to loathe me.    

Jessica really is crying out for help.  It is distressing to see and I hope the Boyers take this seriously.

[JeanieCat]

Their world is so limiting! Almost everything interesting is guilt producing. When I was their age,even though I was a church-going Christian, I never let guilt get in the way! My parents and church didn't pay overly much attention to my life.  I was free to think,feel and explore the world as I wished! Even the simplest things in their world have to be over-examined by everyone in the family it seems! These girls are extremely creative and probably overly emotional. They need to feel free to explore the world and be more apart of it.

 

 

 

[FundiesInParis]

On 3/3/2017 at 6:08 PM, jozina said:

Brigid looks ghastly.  The dress is ill fitting and all, but she looks so gaunt and pale compared to a few months ago.  Poor dear.  Either that or it was an incredibly unflattering shade and light (though the others look fine). Married life and gourmet cooking with Gabe-needs-a-new-hairdo-which-doesn't-make-him-look-creepy-as-creepy-can-be doesn't suit her maybe.

Judging from their favorite podcasts post, it sounds like Brigid might be doing the trim healthy mama thing which could explain why she's looking so rough.

The sisters were already pretty slender, I can't imagine starting a restrictive diet would do any of them any favors.

[Gobsmacked]

On 2 March 2017 at 2:04 PM, FeministShrew said:

I would do this. (Our wedding was actually a costume party, but it ended up being mostly Star Trek uniforms.) 
No offense to Gabe, but he looks exactly as I picture Mr. Collins from Pride & Prejudice.

That was exactly my first thought!!  

[GenerationCedarchip]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:46 AM, usedbicycle said:

Some of these people, like the girls on the left in this pic, look so.... normal?

I think, because we tend to talk about the extremes here, it's easy to forget that there's a LOT of variation among conservative Christians, fundie churches, however you would want to describe it. I grew up in a community that had a lot of VF influence but even within my church's denomination(or within a single church), there was a ton of variation.  To me at least, it's pretty normal to see everything from  "modern modest" dress  and fairly mainstream evangelical lifestyles to very conservative families with SAHD daughters all in prairie dresses all in the same congregation. For that reason, I'm not very surprised to see some variations between how the Boyers do things and how their friends do. I just hope they're all healthy and happy.

 

[usedbicycle]

I've seen the  ”Be still, and know that I am God…" verse very often misused by stay-at-home daughters who are visibly deeply unhappy with their lives. The are women who are so restless at home under Daddy's tiny umbrella that they have to literally ask God to shut up their desires for a more exciting/productive life. 

Here's a passage from a the oldest of the Seven Farmgirl Sisters. She has since gone to flight school and seems so happy about it. I'm glad she listened to the other voice saying "there is more to my life than keeping my parent's house in order and waiting for a husband to save me".

Quote

"Then Jesus took me through a time of resting and being still with Him. I struggled for a few years, wondering if I was supposed to be ‘doing more’. I loved my life and it was very comfortable, but I’d wonder often if I wasn’t supposed to be ‘out there doing something’. Whatever ‘out there doing something’ was! Especially as Cassia and Susannah started pursuing their callings in EMS and midwifery.  I often asked God, “What is my calling? Shouldn’t I be doing something?” And every time I asked Him, He always gently and clearly told me, “You are right where I want you to be, doing exactly what I want you to do.” He taught me to be still with Him, and showed me so much more of how much He loves me. SO MUCH of what I read and heard during that time was, “I love you so much! Rest on Me, and be still. I’m taking care of you.”

 

[Kariina]

Every vaguely-written crisis of SAHDs seems to boil down to "I was getting worried and dissatisfied, but then xyz reminded me that I'm supposed to load up on God and stop fussing about it." It's so depressing to witness!

This genre of SAHD blog post doesn't even go into specifics, they just write epics in the vaguest sense possible about their "trials" and "selfishness" and whatever else, and end with "but I just needed to learn on / turn toward / fill up with / trust God." Chelsy Bontrager's blog is peppered with those sorts of entries. A fundie (aaaalmost fundie lite, but still very very devout) friend of mine has a blog that's almost 90% agonizing textual self-flagellation because her guilt for failing to "lean on God" compounds whatever normal life anxieties she's experiencing. Things like changing a college major, or being single midway through her 20s. I just want to reach out and tell these girls/women that these are very common life anxieties, and there are real cognitive ways to re-evaluate, talk to people you trust, or god forbid, a therapist, and realize that you're not spitting in God's face just because you feel a negative emotion.

For all readers know, Jessica and other similarly distressed SAHDs could have major depression, or be lashing out at loved ones, or it might just be a little bit of worry which they're magnifying to epic theological significance. Nobody owes the world details of their mental health on a blog, but it's a little worrysome that they can't even articulate the reality of their problems in text without couching it in terms of vague yet disastrous spiritual failure. 

Whatever the case, patriarchal Christianity is only offering a solution for a problem it created, and spiritual guilt for even ever having had the problem.

[ladyamylynn]

Poor Jessica. She seems like she's in the midst of a mental health breakdown. She needs a change of scenery and a good therapist. And not a courtship, either. If she gets married before fixing (or learning to manage) whatever is bothering her, she's going to become Teri Maxwell part 2.