Church Wants Own PD; state committee ok w that

[MamaJunebug]

Because what bad could happen, when a religious group decides it needs its own police department? Anything like the Rajneesh days in Antelope, Oregon?

A conservative Presbyterian congregation with its own K-12 school and "seminary" has asked for its own PD. Here's local TV coverage and there's lots more at The Wartburg Watch website. 

I dunno. It did occur to me to wonder why the University I attended had its own campus PD.  In recent years, a big reason seemed to be to quieten down news of on-campus violent crime. 

I attended a very liberal Presbyterian service recently.  Huge physical plant; no evident security personnel.

Off-duty city officers politely checked our purses at a High Holy Days service a few years ago and when I visited a friend's sabbath service this year there was an armed, off-duty officer in plain sight. The church I go to is installing a security system. I get it. But a whole police force?

[Jellybean]

I have encountered too many churches with controlling leaders, and would worry about vulnerable people being threatened with investigations or made to live in awful situations because the church PD has decided that no wrongs were committed. Generalising horribly here, but religion is no guarantee of perfect behaviour, and I don't think the church should be above or outside the law.

I don't really understand why this is necessary- what sort of crimes will be investigated, what population they serve (anyone who ever visits the church? Anyone within the vicinity? Anyone connected with a church member?) and whether the church police will investigate and enforce 'church law' as well as/instead of secular law? Will they have powers of enforcement or punishment? 

Would this set a precedent for sharia law enforcement agencies affiliated with Islamic centres/mosques, just to pick a relatively well-known example? If so, would that change the opinion of local lawmakers?

[Chocolatedefrauded]

I can see these cops engaging in harassment of anyone who falls afoul of the leadership, violations of the dress code, you name it. Are they going to have a church trial, jail and a system of punishment. The whole idea is ridiculous.

[Flossie]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Because what bad could happen, when a religious group decides it needs its own police department? Anything like the Rajneesh days in Antelope, Oregon?

Oh, yes, I remember that.  I didn't live close by, but near enough that the local news reported on it sometimes, until the story went national.  Then we heard about it all the time.  Play nice long enough to take over the local government and the school district and change the towns name to Rashneeshpuram.  Have your elderly, neurotic Guru (who insisted that his clothes had to be rinsed 30 times after washing) drive through the compound each day to smile and wave at his followers in one of his 70 Rolls Royces.  Let his younger girlfriend run the show while the Guru luxeriated in the notion that he was God.

Start getting pushback?  Send people out to spread salmonella spores over local restaurants salad bars in hopes of sickening enough people that they wouldn't get out to vote when the locals decided to take the town back.  

That didn't work out, very few people got sick, but you still managed to squeak by this time.  But another election is scheduled because things aren't really adding up according to the feds.  Solution, Plan B:  Bring in homeless people from as far away as New York to live at the compound and register as voters so they'll vote for you.  But the homeless are a lot of trouble for you.  A lot of them don't want to work, or start to feel that they've been taken advantage of, or have issues you don't know how to deal with, or start getting arrested.  

Back to Plan A.  This time use a more potent strain of salmonella and spread it more widely.  Congrats.  You got more people sick, but now everyone seems to be onto you and it's only a matter of time before it all comes crashing down.  

On to Plan C:  make up a hit list of local and federal law enforcement, and include some of the people in your own cult who are making you nervous.  But before you can really get that plan into action you find that some of the people in your cult have now targeted you.

Solution:  Run like hell.  Get scooped up individually or in small groups in other countries and face the music.  It turned out that most or all of the high-level cult members were all wanted in various countries on multiple charges!  Go figure.

I'd love for someone to track down lower level members of the cult and find out what they're doing today.

[CelticGoddess]

1 hour ago, Chocolatedefrauded said:

I can see these cops engaging in harassment of anyone who falls afoul of the leadership, violations of the dress code, you name it. Are they going to have a church trial, jail and a system of punishment. The whole idea is ridiculous.

And it wouldn't have to be someone who ran afoul of leadership.  I lived in Greenville, SC (Home of Bob Jones) and worked for a LTC facility second shift.  On several occasions,  I had BJU security follow me, no matter what route I went home.  They would start following me at the head of one road (where the campus is located,  And for those who don't know, BJU is fenced and gated, so I was NO where near their property at the time.  About 1mile away on a public road).  It was suspicious because there are a couple of routes I could take home from there (which all lead away from the campus) and security would follow me no matter which way I turned. 

I finally called the city police and reported it, and found out that this is something that BJU security likes to do.  Patrol on public, non campus roads.  I have no problem with the patrolling on BJU property.  But not on a city street.  And not at midnight.  It's all about control.  BJU claims they were "protecting their campus and students".  At midnight, on a city road.  They want power, they have some power and they will use what little they have to destroy the lives of those who don't fit their mold.

BTW: I called BJU to complain and their response was laughable.  I had NOTHING on the back of my car to show that I was a BJU student but that is the reason given for following me.  Apparently security mistook my care for a students.  right.

 

[PennySycamore]

Not surprised this church was in Alabama although I would not have been the least bit shocked to see that t was an SC church.  Both states are crazy that way.  

Churches do NOT need to set up their own police forces.  

@CelticGoddess,  that is horrible that the BJU police would harass you like that.  They had no jurisdiction and that should be illegal if, indeed, it is not.

[RosyDaisy]

Trust me, they will get what they want. Briarwood Presbyterian is located in Vestavia Hills, which is an affluent suburb of Birmingham, Alabama. They are a stinking rich, powerfu, hateful fundie group. You bet your ass they will use a police department to bully and harass people.

[StacyW]

I often go to the gym on Sunday mornings, and it's right next to what appears to be a plain vanilla generic Christian church. However this church has burly men walking around with jackets that say "Off Duty Officer." I feel like going up to them and asking what if Jesus had had bodyguards, he might not have gotten crucified and then where would we be.

[LadyCrow1313]

6 hours ago, StacyW said:

I often go to the gym on Sunday mornings, and it's right next to what appears to be a plain vanilla generic Christian church. However this church has burly men walking around with jackets that say "Off Duty Officer." I feel like going up to them and asking what if Jesus had had bodyguards, he might not have gotten crucified and then where would we be.

I'd love to see a video of this. (As I'm super paranoid about some things, just be careful if you choose to do it.)

[uber frau]

Most conservative churches wield quite enough psychological power to severely fuck with people's heads. The last thing they need is a security  department policing people's every move.

It's ironic that the sort of people who scream for small government also want the power to control everyone else's behaviour.

[December]

I understand having private security at a church, just like any other big event. If it's some huge mega church that's the size of a small town, I can even see having some sort of permanent police presence. But a whole police department? That just seems like overkill, and a way to avoid any public/government oversight of any wrongdoing on the campus. 

[RosyDaisy]

Exactly! There was a drug problem at the school that was conveniently swept under the rug. Imagine what they could do with their own police. Shades of Moscow, Idaho, anyone.

[RebelliousEscapee]

Looks like this will be up for a vote soon. http://www.al.com/news/montgomery/index.ssf/2017/03/alabama_senate_committee_oks_p.html

My family and I actually briefly attended this church years ago. While they're not nearly as hardcore as a lot of churches, a certain Sunday school class in the church did lead to the creation of a far more radical  fundie church by the Keen family and others.

The number of patriachal-leaning families who attend that church is high enough that I would have extreme concerns about this idea being abused and used to further oppress any who dare speak out or try to escape from a toxic environment.

Besides that, there's simply the basic fact that I'm not comfortable with any single group or person having that much power at their disposal. This whole proposal makes me feel ill.