"KILLING THE MINDS OF MALE BABIES" - Pastor is unhappy about American Girl adding a boy doll

[Lurky]

My sister's best friend had problems with the in-laws complaining that her son was playing with dolls - "Do you want him to grow up to be GAY???" - her response:  "Do YOU want him to grow up to be a terrible father?"

[mizandry]

45 minutes ago, Lurky said:

My sister's best friend had problems with the in-laws complaining that her son was playing with dolls - "Do you want him to grow up to be GAY???" - her response:  "Do YOU want him to grow up to be a terrible father?"

Because being gay is totally a career choice you learn from the sin of playing with dolls while boy. And it's a career so bad we must suppress it at all costs!! Ugh... It disturbs me how much people concern troll about gender roles and children's sexuality for the sake of appeasing their own homophobic panic. 

[smittykins]

Boys don't play with dolls, they play with action figures . *snerk*

ETA:

What, pray tell Pastor, bad things will little boys learn? How to take care of their children?

Don't be silly, that's wimmens work.

 And just what do you do when you wife is ill or in the hospital having another baby? Let your children go hungry or lay around in a dirty diaper because you're a MAN and can't be expected to do "those" things?!?

GRANDMA!

[mango_fandango]

I've seen the doll. He looks sweet! How can anyone get riled up by such a sweet little DOLL for Chrissakes? 

Oh. I forgot. Conservative Christians get wound up by almost anything. It's like they're actively looking for things to be offended by sometimes.

[anachronistic]

American Girl has had boy baby dolls for decades in its Bitty Baby line. This new doll is only remarkable because he is a school age kid, not a baby.

I am actually Impressed with the diversity of this years line. Seems like they've been churning out white dolls for doll of the year forever, about time for new characters of color.

[PennySycamore]

9 hours ago, JMarie said:

On a related note, people are huffed up about he American Girl's girl doll underpants.  Used to be that you could take them off, and now they're glued on (?).

http://people.com/babies/american-girl-dolls-underwear-controversy/

One of the American Girl doll lines, Truly Me,  is where you can get a doll that matches your skin, eye and hair colors as well as hair texture.  That is, unless you have albinism like my granddaughter.  Even the "white" dolls are not white like my granddaughter  (who is very white) nor are they "Asian".  The Asian dolls all have darker skin which would be fine for her toddler sister who is also Chinese but doesn't have albinism.  She is merely profoundly deaf.  The AG company has been asked by parents of kids with albinism to make a doll with albinism and the company has not been responsive at all.

[Imrlgoddess]

Things like this always make me shake my head.   My younger nephew (now a grown man) played with a baby doll when he was young, he'd take her around the house with him and cuddle her.  he also played with other more "boyish" toys like cars and whatnot but his baby was part of the mix.  He's the most masculine, sweet, woman loving, wrench turning fellow I know...and he loves children and animals.  It never occurs to these creeps that teaching a child love and compassion in any positive form simply makes them good grown up people.  

[Letgo]

5 hours ago, Lurky said:

My sister's best friend had problems with the in-laws complaining that her son was playing with dolls - "Do you want him to grow up to be GAY???" - her response:  "Do YOU want him to grow up to be a terrible father?"

My son played with dolls, too, as a preschooler. He named his, carried him around, 'nursed' him, did everything his twin sister did with her dolls. He had barrettes and bows in his hair when his sister wore them. His sister played with trucks and built things with Legos. Neither seems to have been "damaged" in any way from playing in non-gender specific ways. Neither is gay. They just played. They had fun doing things together and I didn't worry about gender roles. They are in their 30s now and appear to be happy and well adjusted adults. I am pretty sure any little boys with a male American Girl doll will survive. Maybe they should be American Child dolls now?

[DaniLouisiana]

@smittykins, this grandma would say to her son or SIL-"You made them-you tend to the them! I'm going to tend to your wife and new baby!"

[PennySycamore]

My dad played with dolls when he was little and he was born in 1928!  He also learned to knit and he made the best biscuits you ever ate, save for his mother's.  He was the soul of kindness and we miss him terribly.

[December]

Fortunately, I think we're all safe... those dolls and their accessories are pretty pricey, so I don't think anyone can afford to force them on unsuspecting families to corrupt the children.  

[MayMay1123]

When I taught two and three year olds, the boys would always play with the dolls and the dollhouse and the tradionally "girl" toys, especially if they didn't have a sister, because they usually didn't have those toys at home. Sometimes a boy would say he, or another boy, shouldn't play with them because they were for girls, but we were able to explain that all toys were for all children... I had a transgender 3 year old who was not able to be who he was at home...he would come in and immediately put on a dress up dress and put a scarf over his head for long hair...I often wonder how he is now, and if his parents will ever accept that he is actually she. 

 

[Childless]

My nephew liked to wear tutus to the store and get his nails painted.  He turned out just fine.  Conservative Christians need to unclench their asses and relax a little.  Jesus!

[Hane]

16 hours ago, DaniLouisiana said:

Wow! @Hane, you're a creative mom!

I have a Madame Alexander doll collection-long story. We had to convince the grandkids that those are Mimere's dolls and are "look at, not to play with." Most of them are the late '60s or early s70s versions.

Those early Madame Alexanders were the good ones--made so much better than they are now. In the '60s, my sisters and I got the Little Women and Sound of Music ones.

My nephew had a Cabbage Patch Kid when he was little.  This is how he played with it one day at his grandmother's, at age 3 or so: "Hi, Ma! This is Baby John. Wanna keep an eye on him while I run to the store?" (sounding EXACTLY like his father) After "Ma" agreed, he tucked the doll in for a nap and asked her, "Isn't he precious?"

[Rachel333]

26 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

When I taught two and three year olds, the boys would always play with the dolls and the dollhouse and the tradionally "girl" toys, especially if they didn't have a sister, because they usually didn't have those toys at home. Sometimes a boy would say he, or another boy, shouldn't play with them because they were for girls, but we were able to explain that all toys were for all children... I had a transgender 3 year old who was not able to be who he was at home...he would come in and immediately put on a dress up dress and put a scarf over his head for long hair...I often wonder how he is now, and if his parents will ever accept that he is actually she. 

 

I obviously don't know the full situation, but why does wanting long hair and wanting to wear a dress mean that a 3-year-old is actually a girl? Those are cultural markers of femininity, not an innate part of being female. I do feel sad though for any child whose parents are too fixated on gender roles to let them be who the child wants to be.

I do think that transgender children exist, but the idea that children who don't conform to traditional gender roles are really just transgender seems like it's just a repackaging of traditional ideas about gender. I thought this was a great blog post by a mother with a gender non-conforming son. She writes about how she's fought against the idea that because her son is a boy he must act a certain way but now she's dealing with people telling her that because her son acts a certain way he must be a girl.

[MayMay1123]

5 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I obviously don't know the full situation, but why does wanting long hair and wanting to wear a dress mean that a 3-year-old is actually a girl? Those are cultural markers of femininity, not an innate part of being female. I do feel sad though for any child whose parents are too fixated on gender roles to let them be who the child wants to be.

I do think that transgender children exist, but the idea that children who don't conform to traditional gender roles are really just transgender seems like it's just a repackaging of traditional ideas about gender. I thought this was a great blog post by a mother with a gender non-conforming son. She writes about how she's fought against the idea that because her son is a boy he must act a certain way but now she's dealing with people telling her that because her son acts a certain way he must be a girl.

i only know what the child said and how he acted, he was, after all, only three, and i haven't had any contact after that year. he told us he was a girl, i let him be whatever he wanted in my classroom...he was *not allowed to have "feminine" toys or clothes at home.

[Rachel333]

6 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

 i let him be whatever he wanted in my classroom

That's definitely the way to go. I'm sure it was a relief for him to be there.

[Rubaiyat]

Oh, good lord.  I know I'm about to sound as redundant as all hell...but DUDE!  If that poor man's masculinity is so fragile it can be destroyed by the mere existence of a boy doll, I don't even know what to tell him!  Add me to the long list of people with sons, husbands, and all sorts of various and sundry family members who played with dolls as children, and grew up to be happy, healthy, productive members of society.  

I get especially riled up about this kind of thing.  I have two sons (one adopted and one biological - this becomes important in a minute.)  Both sons have baby dolls (boys) whom they positively adore.  They write their talented gramma and ask her for new doll clothes all the time.  Every other damn week is some doll's "birthday." They are tucked in, dressed, bathed, sung to, roughhoused with, left on the floor, rescued from the dog...you get the idea.  One of my sons has beautiful long hair and is frequently referred to as a girl.  It doesn't really phase him, but his brother will frequently tell people "he's a BOY!  Boys can have long hair, too!"  My other son was raised by a very large, intimidating abusive asshole bully of a human being.  He came to us disgusted by "gayness" - although not exactly knowing what that was - and viciously derisive of anything outside traditional gender norms for boys.   After two weeks home, he was reveling in having his nails painted (every. single. color. we. own.) deciding whether or not to grow his hair long, admitting to really liking the color hot pink, and very shyly asking if maybe he could have a doll like his brother.  He also likes, noise, dirt, trucks, throwing things, making a giant mess and not cleaning it up, things that are blue, and has ginormous man-feet.  

A couple months later, still coming out of his shell, he reveals a profound love for small children.  Babies are okay, but kids from about 10 months to about 4 are his thing.  One of our friends has a beautiful toddler son, and he and my son are practically joined at the soul.  My son will play with him, hold him, rock him, feed him, wipe his face and hands, carry him, talk to him, smile at him, etc...for hours.  I've seen him sit still (he NEVER sits still) for two hours with another friends' sick toddler on his lap because she was comfortable and he didn't want her to have to move.  My son has had very little success in his life.  He has some profound challenges that will follow him forever.  But, with little kiddos, he's so perfectly happy, and so effortlessly himself.  It's beautiful, and it makes my mama heart sing.  And now, he gets to feel like that any time he darn well pleases, because he has his very own baby (whom he named after his favorite toddler soulmate.)  

So, fuck you my good sir.  A simple baby doll (which just happens to be a bitty twin) might have given my son the one thing he needed to feel safe being himself.  He can have hundreds of baby dolls, of any gender, if he wants.  I don't know that my son will ever be a father, but I can promise you that he will nurture many, many children in his life time. And that, my dear intolerant asshole, will benefit humanity, and your God, much more than your hateful little tirade ever could.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

6 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

One of the American Girl doll lines, Truly Me,  is where you can get a doll that matches your skin, eye and hair colors as well as hair texture.  That is, unless you have albinism like my granddaughter.  Even the "white" dolls are not white like my granddaughter  (who is very white) nor are they "Asian".  The Asian dolls all have darker skin which would be fine for her toddler sister who is also Chinese but doesn't have albinism.  She is merely profoundly deaf.  The AG company has been asked by parents of kids with albinism to make a doll with albinism and the company has not been responsive at all.

You should definitely keep trying! They're the only doll company I've seen that is at all responsive to complaints about ableism. Used to be they only had wheelchairs for the doll infirmary, implying none of the dolls would use them permanently. They've recently released a "power" wheelchair that is for any doll anytime so the Truly Me dolls can be wheelchair users. They've also released diabetes care kits for dolls after parents of diabetic kids requested them. I know hearing aids for the dolls are under discussion and they've made dolls with prosthetic legs and also sell service dogs. 

As for the Asian dolls, I don't know about all the skin tones (I feel like I've seen light skinned Asian ones but could be totally wrong), but I know the Emerson doll is light skinned and Asian and there is a Korean American doll being released this year. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@Rubaiyat--     

I just had to stop myself from standing up and clapping in a waiting room. Very well said!

[ADoyle90815]

If someone's masculinity is so fragile that the thought of a doll can damage it, then it's not that strong to begin with. I'd even say he's so far in the closet, he can see Narnia as far as gender goes. My brother and I often played with each others toys, and both of us are secure in the gender we were born with. My brother has gone on to be a great dad to my niece, and an uncle to her cousins, and is very much a heterosexual male. I happen to be child free by choice, but I'm still heterosexual as well. Anyway, those dolls and accessories are so overpriced, I doubt that asshole has to worry about them corrupting the children in his congregation.

 

[backyard sylph]

My youngest son, who is now 18, asked for a baby doll when he was about six. We got him one that came with a little car seat, and he named it Thomasthebaby. Thomasthebaby was an office man, a super hero, a film maker, and more. A few months later I found an identical one on Ebay, and so Earl came to live with Thomasthebaby. Earl had problems; he was sort of the comic relief man. But they were friends. Thomas, who referred to himself as "Thob," because he had some sort of sinus condition, had birthdays, played baseball, and went on all kinds of adventures. He is missing a hand now, and resides at the top of my closet waiting for the day when my son wants him back for a kid of his own. Well, and Earl, of course.

[DaniLouisiana]

@ADoyle90815, Lol! We say so far in the closet they're playing with the Winter Queen!

[ADoyle90815]

This pretty much sums it up.

[AuLait]

Guess he'd freak out at the picture of my 4 year old son breastfeeding a boy doll.

Most my FB friends are varying degrees of conservative Christian but not a peep on my FB feed!