The Botkinettes have surfaced and they're giving relationship advice again!

[katilac]

Wow, finally watched - that was 3 minutes and 10 seconds of utter stupidity. It's complicated, it's complicated, it's even more complicated, but it's not that complicated! 

And yes, kind of sad, with them trying to look young and girlish (clothing and hairstyles) and ignoring the fact that they have no experience whatsoever in relationships. 

[nausicaa]

13 minutes ago, katilac said:

Wow, finally watched - that was 3 minutes and 10 seconds of utter stupidity. It's complicated, it's complicated, it's even more complicated, but it's not that complicated! 

And yes, kind of sad, with them trying to look young and girlish (clothing and hairstyles) and ignoring the fact that they have no experience whatsoever in relationships. 

Just wondering, what is it about their clothing and hairstyles that you think looks like they're "trying to look young"? I'm the Botkinettes' age and wear very similar clothing and hairstyles, right down to the layered bracelets. Now I'm kind of paranoid...

[Rachel333]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:31 PM, nickelodeon said:

(Lady Bib's favorite Austen heroine is actually sluggish, sanctimonious, passive-aggressive Fanny Price, whom Austen must have created for 21st-century fundie girls who feel that even gentle Jane Bennett is a little too empowered.)

The Lady B discussion prompted me to go see what she's up to now, and her most recent post, from Friday, actually mentions Fanny again as her favorite heroine.

Quote

She's one of the best examples of someone who is moral granite--absolutely will not be moved against her conscience--and yet doesn't have a particle of insistence where her personal preferences are concerned. She will stand for principle, but not for inclination.

 

[Grimalkin]

13 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Considering how much their family's belief system revolves around patriarchy, I would assume that everything left (and who knows how much will be left) will be split among the sons only. Perhaps a small sum for each unmarried daughter would be set aside, but I doubt they will get the bulk of the estate or control of whatever remains of the business. 

      This. Perhaps a trust with the brothers in charge. Maybe the sisters would be allowed to run it and continue whatever it is they do. 

[Flossie]

14 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Their answer is always "church elders." Needless to say, a penniless, grieving woman at the mercy of the male elders of her church is a situation that is wide open to potential abuse, but they never even issue any caution about it! 

I think if a SAHD outlived her parents and had no other close relatives or family friends to turn to, she would indeed end up as 'a ward of the church'.  After all of her parents belongings are sold off and their final bills are paid, she would be expected to give the rest to the church in gratitude for their love and support.

Then SAHD would be inspected.  What is her general state of health?  Is she more suited to being a companion to an elderly couple or is she robust enough to be nanny to a family with kids.

And just like that the Duggars have a replacement for Tabitha Paine.  SAHD will be moving into Grandma Duggars old room, handed a list of chores, and welcomed aboard.

[DancingPhalanges]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Just wondering, what is it about their clothing and hairstyles that you think looks like they're "trying to look young"? I'm the Botkinettes' age and wear very similar clothing and hairstyles, right down to the layered bracelets. Now I'm kind of paranoid...

You didn't ask me but I am at least 15 years older than both of them and I have a similar denim jacket (tommy hilfiger) that the blonde Botkin is wearing (I wear my hair like hers but parted on side) and I have a similar denim shirt that the brunette is wearing (free people). I wear hoop earrings as well and did not notice their bracelets. I wear artsy, fun type of accessories too.

Taste and style are so personal that it's often remarked on with wildly different opinions. 

The subject of the video was horrid enough to deal with that I think their fashion was actually the only thing I liked. The blonde Botkin had a more natural look regarding cosmetics, the brunette I have to agree looked overly done.

I loved, loved your NY Eve dress. 

Pardon my lazy writing, I have a terrible cold. 

P.S. To the posts about trusts, ours leaves our DAUGHTER in charge of her brothers. She's educated, hard-working and has sound decision making abilities. 

[crawfishgirl]

Regarding their inheritance - even if they have plenty of money now (I don't know the Botkin family's current financial situation), that doesn't mean that they won't go through it quickly if the parents have medical issues towards the end of their lives.  I've been through it with my grandparents and my father.  My grandfather had many issues and eventually had to go into a nursing home.  Nursing homes are expensive.  My aunts and uncles had to sell his house and go through his savings to pay for his needs.  When he passed away, there was very little for inheritance (no one was expecting anything, but I say this in reference to my point about the Botkins).  My father was in a similar situation (he had strokes and dementia) when he passed away.  He was in a nursing home for a couple of years.

In these situations, my relatives tried to keep their relatives in their own homes for as long as possible, but it got to a point where it wasn't possible.  My father had dementia and had to be watched constantly, and would try to sneak out of the house to drive.  He also lost control of some of his bodily functions, and would fall down a lot.  My mother didn't have the strength to pick him back up, so it got complicated.  

So even though the Botkinettes will take care / serve their parents in their elder years, sometimes it gets to the point where it's beyond their abilities and/or they need specialized medical care.  It gets very expensive at that point, and even long-term care insurance doesn't pay for everything.

[refugee]

13 hours ago, katilac said:

Wow, finally watched - that was 3 minutes and 10 seconds of utter stupidity. It's complicated, it's complicated, it's even more complicated, but it's not that complicated! 

And yes, kind of sad, with them trying to look young and girlish (clothing and hairstyles) and ignoring the fact that they have no experience whatsoever in relationships. 

All style issues aside, I just had a flash -- a cartoon picture appeared in my brain, of the two of them as octogenarians, touting their latest revision of It's Not Complicated...

[snowgirl]

Hey, Friends,

So what interests me about this, is that this is all these girls talk about.  Like. . .why don't they do a hobby or something. . .they live on a farm. . . they could breed Highland Cattle together.  . . .but that is breeding things, so that could get complicated. . .and they could start rock climbing or working out or be trainers. . .

BUT THEY ALWAYS TALK ABOUT HOW TO POLICE YOURSELF IN RELATIONSHIPS

I don't consider this encouragement.  If I was single and someone tried to feed me this even with it being laced with chocolate mousse, chased down with a Raspberry Lemon Drop. . .I would rage away and run run run.  For me it would NOT be that complicated to make that personal choice.

And then there is the fast fact they get older and older and keep talking about it, but they don't have a relationship!  I wish it for them if they want it.   

It honestly is like Saturday Night Live to watch this video.   I thought KellyAnne Conway was going to jump out at the viewer from behind the blackboard!  

 

[Sobeknofret]

12 minutes ago, snowgirl said:

Hey, Friends,

So what interests me about this, is that this is all these girls talk about.  Like. . .why don't they do a hobby or something. . .they live on a farm. . . they could breed Highland Cattle together.  . . .but that is breeding things, so that could get complicated. . .and they could start rock climbing or working out or be trainers. . .

BUT THEY ALWAYS TALK ABOUT HOW TO POLICE YOURSELF IN RELATIONSHIPS

I don't consider this encouragement.  If I was single and someone tried to feed me this even with it being laced with chocolate mousse, chased down with a Raspberry Lemon Drop. . .I would rage away and run run run.  For me it would NOT be that complicated to make that personal choice.

And then there is the fast fact they get older and older and keep talking about it, but they don't have a relationship!  I wish it for them if they want it.   

It honestly is like Saturday Night Live to watch this video.   I thought KellyAnne Conway was going to jump out at the viewer from behind the blackboard!  

 

They trapped themselves early on in their speaking and writing careers. There is no way that they can do anything else but talk about how women can position themselves in relationships, because their entire "minstry" is founded on the principle that women can't have status or interests in their own lives, but should be judged for how they relate to the men in their lives, whether father, husband, brothers, whoever.

I remember being astonished when Elizabeth once said that she gave up her interests in serious music so her brother could have all the resources devoted to his musical career. Why couldn't the Botkins have nurtured the musical talents of both Elizabeth and her brother (presumably Ben)? They seem to have more than enough money to ensure that both kids could pursue their interests in music. But, no. Ben gets the resources for his musical career, Elizabeth gets the praise for sacrificing herself to further her brother's career.  She positioned herself as submissive to Ben's needs, and policed her own desires to fit those of the men in her life. 

[December]

10 hours ago, crawfishgirl said:

So even though the Botkinettes will take care / serve their parents in their elder years, sometimes it gets to the point where it's beyond their abilities and/or they need specialized medical care.  It gets very expensive at that point, and even long-term care insurance doesn't pay for everything.

Such a good point.

It's a hard enough situation for many normal families where adults have educations and work experience. I can't imagine how bad the circumstances could be for families with no one left who's socially permitted to work outside the home. 

[snickerz]

They could still find someone (a widower, for example) 10 years from now.  Geoff did pray over their ovaries as babies, so how do they explain that away?

[RosyDaisy]

Geoff did pray over their ovaries as babies,

Wait, say what now? That's just...just...ewwww.

[Howl]

What would happen if one sister married and the other sister was left at home? Would there be guilt for escaping?  

Also, I can't imagine that they have much (any) discretion in what they write about; after all, this is an extremely dick-centric household, even by patriarchal standards.  

I truly, truly hope they have some type of social life outside the family.  At least they have one completely awesome cousin, the incomparable blogger Katie Botkin, to turn to should one or both decide to escape. Katie Botkin (kbotkin.com) has critiqued some of the duck biologist's writings in the past and has written critically and wittily about various aspects of patriarchy, particularly as manifested in Doug Wilson's World in Moscow, ID.  She's also an intrepid solo world traveler, in sum, the antithesis of the Botkinettes. 

 

[MamaJunebug]

9 hours ago, snickerz said:

...  .  Geoff did pray over their ovaries as babies, ..:

Yeah, while his wife Victoria about bled out from complications of A-S's birth.  Again, makes a great story for old Geoff: "I prayed that her eggs would hatch into a dynasty while her mother - my wife - lay thisclose to death. Had to distract myself from the icky body fluids and lady parts that the (probably Marxist) medical personnel were fussing with."

2 hours ago, Howl said:

What would happen if one sister married and the other sister was left at home? Would there be guilt for escaping?  

Also, I can't imagine that they have much (any) discretion in what they write about; after all, this is an extremely dick-centric household, even by patriarchal standards.  

I truly, truly hope they have some type of social life outside the family.  At least they have one completely awesome cousin, the incomparable blogger Katie Botkin, to turn to should one or both decide to escape. Katie Botkin (kbotkin.com) has critiqued some of the duck biologist's writings in the past and has written critically and wittily about various aspects of patriarchy, particularly as manifested in Doug Wilson's World in Moscow, ID.  She's also an intrepid solo world traveler, in sum, the antithesis of the Botkinettes. 

 

Sadly, I dont think they have much of a relationship with Katie. When the two families had a reunion at Katie's dad's place (he actually earned an MD and practices medicine) a few years ago, it seems it was the first in decades. Who knows for sure, though? 

Katie's recent blogpost is on date rape, and how many of her friends have been victimized. What do A-S & E think about that subject? I'm asking rotely. I **really** do not want to know. 

[DomWackTroll]

6 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Yeah, while his wife Victoria about bled out from complications of A-S's birth.  Again, makes a great story for old Geoff: "I prayed that her eggs would hatch into a dynasty while her mother - my wife - lay thisclose to death. Had to distract myself from the icky body fluids and lady parts that the (probably Marxist) medical personnel were fussing with."

Oh, God help me, but I laughed so hard at that... You nailed it, MJB. 

Yeah, I guess Geoff's ovary prayers didn't really work. Surely he must realize that A-S and Elizabeth would have had to get married when they were VERY young in order for that to happen. Sure, predestination and all that, but you still gotta do your part, Geoff. 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/20/2017 at 10:28 AM, DomWackTroll said:

Oh, God help me, but I laughed so hard at that... You nailed it, MJB. 

Yeah, I guess Geoff's ovary prayers didn't really work. Surely he must realize that A-S and Elizabeth would have had to get married when they were VERY young in order for that to happen. Sure, predestination and all that, but you still gotta do your part, Geoff. 

It was freaking hilarious. I just can't with these pretentious little twits. I would love to know who the actual potential suitors have been in the past. I would be super curious to see what isn't good enough for the Botkins.

[katilac]

On 2/18/2017 at 10:50 PM, nausicaa said:

Just wondering, what is it about their clothing and hairstyles that you think looks like they're "trying to look young"? I'm the Botkinettes' age and wear very similar clothing and hairstyles, right down to the layered bracelets. Now I'm kind of paranoid...

You know, I looked again, and I really can't pinpoint it, because I agree that many their age and older wear similar styles with great success. I think I'm having a hard time separating my thoughts and conjecture from what I am actually seeing; it's more the overall tone (and knowing about them) than what they are wearing. 

 

On 2/20/2017 at 7:22 AM, Howl said:

What would happen if one sister married and the other sister was left at home? Would there be guilt for escaping?  

And/or resentment from the one left at home? The Boyers are much younger and it was hard on them when one sister left (and there are still two at home).

[DancingPhalanges]

On 2/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, Howl said:

What would happen if one sister married and the other sister was left at home? Would there be guilt for escaping?  

I'm not sure if there would be guilt but I'm pretty certain there would be idiotic courting/marriage "advice" and asinine videos. 

Possibly a new book on all things marriage! Yay!

Marriage/Partnerships are damn complicated at times. Although I guess one with such defined rules as theirs might be less complicated (and less respectful etc.) than my marriage on equal grounds. 

As I read through the families in FJ I continue to be astonished when I should just expect lunacy as the norm. 

[ladyamylynn]

To me it's more about the contrast between their pretty, youthful looks and their uptight, matronly, and quite off-putting demeanor.

[Hokey Pokey]

They do talk REALLY......oddly. I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe it's just due to over-rehearsing, but I find the robot, dead-eye, unblinking stare talking really off putting. Like they're just sort of mimicking human behaviour.........

[Kelsey]

13 minutes ago, Hokey Pokey said:

They do talk REALLY......oddly. I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe it's just due to over-rehearsing, but I find the robot, dead-eye, unblinking stare talking really off putting. Like they're just sort of mimicking human behaviour.........

When they talk, it's like a normal person having a medical exam. You know, how you kind of fade away a little and let the doctor do the exam. You're there but you're not there.

[Hokey Pokey]

2 hours ago, Kelsey said:

When they talk, it's like a normal person having a medical exam. You know, how you kind of fade away a little and let the doctor do the exam. You're there but you're not there.

Yes (great comparison, wish I'd thought of it ) sort of going through the motions, but distant.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Maybe that's it -- they are going through the motions.  Because really, truthfully underneath the facade of SAHD obedience and serving their High Lord and Master Geoff - King of the Western Conservancy,  they are seething with rage and frustration.

Seething and shaking with rage that their lives are passing them by and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it.  Frustration that they are unmarried women in a culture that only values women as wives and mothers of many, many babies.  By that very definition they are lesser women than their SILs.

SAHD seems a great idea when you're 18, 19, 20, 21 and expecting  Godly Prince Charming to arrive any day to whisk you off to your reward for being a SAHD -- wonderful godly marriage and motherhood. After all your SILs achieved it.  Fast forward 10-12 years and you're still waiting. And you're left with 2 thoughts -- 1) something is wrong with you or 2) King Geoff scared/ drove every suitor away.

The robotic delivery and dead-eyed stare is how they keep all that rage and frustration in check,

[freealljs]

They're kind of in the same boat as Sarah Mally, the Prince Charming book and Bright Lights lady. At what point does she retire from her ministry, because she can't keep peddling the same old message when she's in unmarried in her 40s about staying pure and waiting for the one that God has chosen. IMO, she wants a man but doesn't want to put the effort into building a relationship. Leave it up to God is a lazy excuse. I believe that the same issues will belie the Botkin sisters. They are knocking on the 30 yo door of life, and yet have nothing to show for it, besides building a business around a mesage that does not fit them anymore. At what point do they throw in the proverbial towel too and actively pursue love?

All I see with these women is wasted youth and potential.