The Botkinettes have surfaced and they're giving relationship advice again!

[Fundiewonder]

Before the downfall of Doug Phillips, I though that Elizabeth would marry his son Joshua. I saw them photographed together a lot, but maybe he was too young for her.

i just realized that the Botkinettes remind me--rather improbably--of Madonna. When she was 25, Madonna was the embodiment of everything sexy. She was able to maintain that image for a quite a time, even though society is harsh on "older" women who still feel sexy. But when Madonna started approaching fifty and was still acting like a sexpot, she slowly became a joke. (Again, not to say older women can't be sexy--it's just that many people dismiss them in favor of very young women). But Madonna doesn't realize that she's become a joke to many people. She doesn't realize that few people  are now interested in seeing her flash the audience. In her mind, shes's still the sexiest woman in the world, and she thinks that men will still  fall at her feet. The discrepancy between her self perception and society's position is sad. likewise, it's sad that the Botkinettes have no idea  that they're becoming a joke.

[smittykins]

2 hours ago, Hane said:

In my Roman Catholic days, I spoke with a few priests who *did* have a clue about male-female relationships, but those priests had actual MSWs from accredited, non-religious universities.

And there have been some who entered the priesthood after the death of their wives(there was one not far from me in the 80s).

[Peas n carrots]

And there have been some who entered the priesthood after the death of their wives(there was one not far from me in the 80s).

There are also a few married Catholic priests who were formerly Episcopalian priests.

https://cruxnow.com/church/2014/08/05/married-priests-and-the-catholic-church/

[louisa05]

We need to be careful with assuming that people without specific personal experiences know nothing.

Unless you all are the asshole parents who explain to childless teachers that they don't actually understand anything about kids or learning.

If so, carry on.

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 hours ago, refugee said:

Well, it would certainly be Jane Austenish of them to live with a married brother. They wouldn't have to go together as a package, either, but could separate (unlike old bonded cats at the shelter that, by policy, get adopted out together). Just think: a live-in babysitter for each lucky household.

Didn't Elizabeth Bennett tell her sister, Jane, that she probably wasn't going to get married, “I am determined that only the deepest love will induce me into matrimony. So, I shall end an old maid, and teach your ten children to embroider cushions and play their instruments very ill.”

Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.

(sorry, couldn't resist, even though I can't remember where that quote comes from originally)

If you want to talk about SAHD in Austen books then look no further than "Persuasion." Anne's older sister was happy to play lady of the house to her father. And Emma Woodhouse as well. Until she fell in love with Knightly. 

[nokidsmom]

I always found it sad that these two present themselves as experts on relationships.  And it not just that they haven't had that personal experience themselves but that they are coming from a paradigm that's so unhealthy for today's women (Daddy worship, not getting an education, not working outside the home, sit on the sidelines of your own life while other people make decisions for you, etc) that no one should be listening to them. 

 

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If you want to talk about SAHD in Austen books then look no further than "Persuasion." Anne's older sister was happy to play lady of the house to her father. And Emma Woodhouse as well. Until she fell in love with Knightly. 

Emma was very young in the book, though, and has been mistress of the house for years because her mother had died.  She wasn't a SAHD in the classic sense, as she had much more freedom than the Maxwells, eg - to make her own friends, even in a lower social class; to walk alone; to boss around friends and family; to be petted darling and capricious boss of her life.  She even travelled in a carriage with only a thin wooden wall between her and a man, and the coachman!  (I'm pretty sure she rode alone, but can't remember offhand, so could be wrong). 

This is the thing about Austin - the Lady Bibliophiles, the Boyers etc etc glorify that world, while missing both Austin's irony (or as my teenage self wrote in the margins of Emma, OH BITTER IRONY!) but also the fact her young women have so much more freedom, in context, than these Fundy maidens want for themselves, or all other women.  (It drives me crazy!)

[nickelodeon]

(Lady Bib's favorite Austen heroine is actually sluggish, sanctimonious, passive-aggressive Fanny Price, whom Austen must have created for 21st-century fundie girls who feel that even gentle Jane Bennett is a little too empowered.)

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, nickelodeon said:

(Lady Bib's favorite Austen heroine is actually sluggish, sanctimonious, passive-aggressive Fanny Price, whom Austen must have created for 21st-century fundie girls who feel that even gentle Jane Bennett is a little too empowered.)

I love Lizzie Bennett but I told my best friend once, that I am the Charlotte to her Elizabeth Bennett. I'm practical, plain and unromantic :-/

[CloakNDagger]

That video is just sad.

[Grimalkin]

On 2/13/2017 at 3:52 PM, Hane said:

In my Roman Catholic days, I spoke with a few priests who *did* have a clue about male-female relationships, but those priests had actual MSWs from accredited, non-religious universities.

     I was going to say something along these lines. Many priests actually have dated before they got their calling. They also went to regular schools and had somewhat normal childhoods, though I am sure that varies greatly. From what I can tell the priests at our church seemed to come from normal yet religious families but not over the top. Current priest was in the Marines and grew up Methodist and converted after attending a catholic funeral of one of his friends who he served in The Gulf War with. I think I have been to church 10 times in he past five years. I seem to know a lot about our priests. I don't know what kind of advice he gives though. 

[acheronbeach]

I've interacted and been friends with several Jesuits in Canada over the years (my spouse has some connections in the Catholic church).  None of these priests have had any comprehension of normal, respectful, romantic relationships between a man and a woman, not to mention non hetero relationships/dysfunctional relationships/abusive relationships.  If they had reasonable understanding of women before they entered the priesthood, their bizarre groupthink over a decade plus of training tends to obliterate their original reasonableness.  

 

[Bethella]

On 2/13/2017 at 6:51 PM, Fundiewonder said:

Before the downfall of Doug Phillips, I though that Elizabeth would marry his son Joshua. I saw them photographed together a lot, but maybe he was too young for her.

Last we heard Joshua Phillips was courting Delany Sproul, but that was before her father was arrested for drunk driving.

[Childless]

18 hours ago, louisa05 said:

We need to be careful with assuming that people without specific personal experiences know nothing.

Unless you all are the asshole parents who explain to childless teachers that they don't actually understand anything about kids or learning.

If so, carry on.

Teachers have an education in early childhood and adolescent development and elementary/secondary education.  Have the Botkinettes been to college?  Have they taken any courses on interpersonal relationships?  Do they have any type of certification or post high school education in the subject matter at hand?  I didn't think so.  Therefore, I have no reason to listen to any of their drivel.

[Lurky]

4 hours ago, Childless said:

Teachers have an education in early childhood and adolescent development and elementary/secondary education.  Have the Botkinettes been to college?  Have they taken any courses on interpersonal relationships?  Do they have any type of certification or post high school education in the subject matter at hand?  I didn't think so.  Therefore, I have no reason to listen to any of their drivel.

Exactly this.  Teachers' work is nothing like parenting, and they are rigorously trained for it, so it's nowhere near analogous with the Botkinettes.  If they'd, I don't know, done education, training and assessment in couple/family counselling, for example, it would be different (and again, I would never cast doubt on a couples' counsellor who was single, either).

These sheltered young women, though, they just know they're superior to everyone else, and that they have a special relationship with God - and they've been Fundy royalty for so long, of course they're the most qualified to talk about marriage!

[NakedKnees]

On 2/13/2017 at 8:20 AM, Lurky said:

And every time I read about the Botkinettes, I have to head over the Katie Botkin's blog for some balance.  I love Kate!

https://kbotkin.com/

Is Katie Botkin their sister? That blog absolutely IS a breath of fresh air.

[elliha]

My oldest niece is the younger Bodkinette's age. She recently told us that she is pregnant with her first child. She has a great boyfriend, they recently bought a house, she has been to college in another town, has worked in 3 different places using her training from college to do something she really likes. I am slightly older than the older Bodkinette. I have been to college, married, two kids, a decent job (not my dream job but good enough and in the field I trained for). I get that they might not want the things we wanted but still, it is so sad to see their lives wasted. They don't have our option of focusing on our careers if no man had turned up in our lives or the option of having babies through insemination. They only have being married and having children and they are now at an age where this is becoming less available for them. Had they been in the real world this still would be an option but there are tons of younger girls in their life that want the same as them and that the men could pick.  I feel depressed now...

[acheronbeach]

37 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

Is Katie Botkin their sister? That blog absolutely IS a breath of fresh air.

She is their cousin.  

[crawfishgirl]

They have a new article on their website today about preparing for a single life:  https://botkinsisters.com/article/should-i-keep-preparing-for-marriage-or-is-it-time-to-start-preparing-for-a-single-life

It mentions that single women should prepare to be part of God's kingdom, and not worry about not being married.  

[Jencendiary]

Confirmed. Neither of them intend to actually submit themselves to a headship.

Edited to Add: And I don't blame them one bit. Can't knock their hustle.

[Foudeb]

41 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

It mentions that single women should prepare to be part of God's kingdom, and not worry about not being married.  

Obviously I want all these SAHD to be happy and find love but... if it's a choice between being a broodmare and helpmeet to someone they may or may not be into (remember he'd be chosen by their father not by them) or staying single and at home, well, staying at home may be the wisest choice for their own happiness.

This is just so sad any way you look at it. What I truly wish all these female second-generation fundies is a job - a career, an independence, to do what they want to do and not what their parents tell them to do. The Botkinettes are good at marketing, think of what they could be doing in a proper company producing proper videos for an actual real product. I bet they'd find it more fun too.

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

22 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

(Lady Bib's favorite Austen heroine is actually sluggish, sanctimonious, passive-aggressive Fanny Price, whom Austen must have created for 21st-century fundie girls who feel that even gentle Jane Bennett is a little too empowered.)

Oh dear lord, Fanny Price! I have always thought that Mr. and Mrs. Edmund Bertram would be the dullest dinner party guests on the planet. The Crawfords, on the other hand.....

I don't actually think that not having been in a relationship means that the Botkins should automatically be ignored. My son's nanny has no children but she is much better than me on the childcare front! Same with his wonderful class teacher who is brilliant with him. The trouble is the Botkins have such a narrow perception of what relationships are about and have no idea how they can vary. It is the close mindedness I have a problem with. As with all fundies. 

[Howl]

50 minutes ago, Jencendiary said:

Confirmed. Neither of them intend to actually submit themselves to a headship.

Well, they are already subsumed under giant amoeba Geoff, who has successfully suffocated them with slime.  I know, I know, not very charitable, but Lord Dampnut and his court have me discombombulated.  

The Botkinettes are definitely plowing the different day, same shit field: 

Spoiler

What we see in Scripture is both married, single, and widowed women being all about the same essential things: Relationships. Discipleship. Service. Teaming up with others to spread the gospel. Pouring themselves into the households they were in. Assisting men (fathers, husbands, brothers, prophets, fellow disciples) in supportive roles. Nurturing biological and spiritual children. Meeting physical and spiritual and emotional needs. You know what this would mean for life preparation? It means the same training that would prepare a woman to be an amazing wife and mother would also prepare her to be an amazing single woman, an amazing widow, and an amazing empty-nester.

So to clarify, STAY AT HOME and serve penis people.   

And it chaps me that they act all passive, "Well, marriage just didn't happen for us."  It's not, "Well, dad cock blocked every potential suitor due to emotional incest, our eggs are slowly drying up and we're stuck at home being unpaid servants."  Guess I'm still on the non-charitable mean streak, but FFS, ladies, Get a Damn Clue! 

[Chocolatedefrauded]

The priest who married us said they saw a lot when doing pre-Cana counseling and marriage counseling and just going to dinner at families homes. He said they had ideas of who was going to get divorced just by how they treated each other. Being a third-party observered can be educational. But they never saw what couples are like when no one else is around. So who knows? 

[dramallama]

If only they all followed in the footsteps of the Botkinettes, unconcerned (they claim) about marriage and content furthering Daddy's work, there would be fewer future Christofacists made and to grow up and vote for the next Trump in 18 years (see Mortons, Campanas, etc).  I actually wish they'd all have an epiphany and see the absurdity of it all, and get out to become independent adults leading their own lives as they choose freely, but barren and at home forever is the next best thing if you ask me.