The Botkinettes have surfaced and they're giving relationship advice again!

[VooDooChild]

I haven't caught up on all the latest victim blaming b.s. yet, because it is too triggering and rage inducing.  But, I wonder if anybody else thinks that the botkinettes might be beyond deprogramming?  Is there such a thing as inability to be deprogrammed?  I need to research this.

 

These attempts of theirs to stay relevant are just that.  So transparent.  

[Palimpsest]

So have the Botkinettes been ruminating about all of this since the Fall of the Tool?  Has something else happened more recently in their own church?

Well, whatever.  This truck-load of victim blaming crap is apparently all that they can come up with.

I am intrigued, however.

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The church at large is still learning how to handle abuse, and with all the reports of churches handling abuse catastrophically, it’s worth remembering three things – that the situations that do go well (we know of many) tend to go quietly un-publicized; that, while individual churches can be bad, God’s design and instruction for church or for elders is not bad; and that the proper health and functioning of the church depends on all the members of the Body fulfilling their roles, including us.

Please define and elucidate, Botkinettes.

Handled catastrophically.  You mean churches ignoring incidents, or protecting the abuser and blaming the victims until they have successfully assaulted one or multiple victims and the whole thing goes public, I suppose.  Or perhaps even testifying in court in favor of a child rapist, and then marrying him him to another woman, so that he can attack his own child.  See Doug Wilson.  Or do you think that was OK?

The situations that do go well.  You mean the ones where the victim is successful in fighting off the attacker (or resisting the groomer), and is then blamed for attracting their attention in the first place, but it is all kept quiet?

We know of many.  And I bet this is true.  Your environment seems riddled with abusers.  The whole Patriarchal system is pretty much set up to enable them and to create victims.  How many? How were they handled?  How were the perpetrators punished?  How were the victims supported and made whole?

Tend to go quietly un-publicized.   Yes, and because they are not made public how many perpetrators are still freely walking the streets and infesting your churches?  How many will attack again?  You should be ashamed of yourselves.

God’s design and instruction for church or for elders is not bad.  You mean that perversion of Matthew 18 you follow?  The one that you claim means dealing with all sins within the church, dismissing claims of abuse as gossip and slander, and forbidding secular intervention - ever.   This design and "instruction" is terrible.

It is rather obvious that your interpretation means that huge numbers of cases of abuse and sexual assaults are never uncovered, are never dealt with, and the perpetrators are not punished nor prevented from sinning committing crimes again.  That is surely not what any decent God would have intended.

[formergothardite]

Part 5 and back to the fictional Emily and Bryan. 

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Emily truly did want to do the right thing in her relationship with Bryan. She genuinely believed that the things Bryan continually pressured her to do were wrong, and she really did mean “no” every time she said it. 

Emily isn't a floozy, though.

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 Emily’s no floozy, but her natural desires are simply a lot stronger than her spiritual ones. 

It isn't her fault, but it is. 

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We can’t say often enough that Bryan and Bryan alone bears the blame for what Bryan did. Emily’s weaknesses didn’t force Bryan to sin against her, and also didn’t mean that she deserved it. But they did betray her into the hands of a predator when it was fully in her power to escape.

If you watch a movie and have sympathy for someone in it, well you are to blame when your date won't accept no and forces himself on you.

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If we’re using music, movies, or novels, to sow to inappropriate fantasies, misplaced longings, or emotional roller-coasters, we must not expect to reap purity, clear-mindedness, emotional self-control, and a strong grip on reality. If we’re sowing to moral confusion by sympathizing with people in those movies, music, or novels doing things we know are wrong, we must not expect to reap moral clarity and resolve in the times when we need it most. 

They are blaming the women who spoke out against people in churches.

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The recent flood of scandals, including in the Christian community, includes far too many examples of women essentially saying, “Oh, I did rebuff his advances – every time we went out! I was never OK with the things he was pressuring me into doing, and I would tell him so every time it happened.” As a critically-injured young woman said when asked by her doctor why she didn’t just leave her abusive boyfriend: “Oh, but I have, Doctor – dozens of times!”

Women are just the worst.

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there is a kind of covetousness and ambition that women are very prone to when it comes to men, especially when it involves competing with other women. 

Still not acknowledging that they built their brand on legalism.

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Now, that said, we can’t underplay how common real spiritual bondage and false teaching are, and how much they can confuse us, blind us, bind us, and betray us into the hands of those who would even abuse us physically. Some of us will have a longer road ahead of us in learning to interpret Scripture accurately, unraveling bad interpretations and hermeneutics woven into our thinking since childhood. 

 

[RosyDaisy]

Wow. Victim blaming wrapped in pretty paper to make it sound all nice and Godly. It's disgusting! Fuck them and their ilk!

[CyborgKin]

Okay here we go with part 4 of "look how much the Botkin Sisters are neither self aware nor generally aware".

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Joseph was a young and inexperienced immigrant, eager to do well with his first job, and enjoying great success due to his boss’s good favor. Everyone thought he had the makings of a star, though the vulnerability of his position was always on the back of his mind.

You all remember Joseph the Immigrant, right?  He immigrated to Egypt because of some squabble with his brothers, right?  Anyhow he was an immigrant with a good job he didn't want to lose, just like so many African American immigrants, back before that war about states' rights and something to do with economics.

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So, Joseph did the hard and scary thing; he told her “no” and got away from her. As a result, he lost everything. Scripture records him as a hero of the faith.

We decided to use this example of a slave being thrown in prison man losing his job to explain the pressures women face, because we couldn't find a good example in the Bible of a woman successfully saying no and suffering loss for speaking out.  Just a few cases of women being raped and the men going to war over it.

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Saying no or speaking up can cost a woman everything, and it has for many brave silence-breakers.

While saying nothing and giving in to the abuse doesn't cost... uh... no let's try to ignore that.

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“I tell students that whatever feels the most empowering for them is what they should do.” Which, we’re pretty sure, is how Harvey Weinstein’s whole network of effectual accomplices covering things up to protect their own careers and success were operating all along. Actually… we’re pretty sure that’s how Harvey Weinstein was operating, too.

And we would know, because our family knows everything and has so many contacts with influential people in important places.  You never know who you'll meet when pursuing the noble science of duck biology!

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With all its promises of strength and liberation, feminism leaves women in the ultimate bondage, the bondage to their own natural sinful tendencies. Bondage to the fear that says, “I just can’t.” To the apathy that says, “It’s not worth it.” To the ambition that says, “It would be OK to trade my principles for success.” To the pragmatism that says, “What would it profit me if I think about my soul and lose the whole world?”

Remember when we were talking about abuse?  No?  Well now we're talking about women's sinful tendencies and trading their principles for success.  Like the principle of... not letting yourself be abused.  But we're not victim blaming, we'd never do that!

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God, on the other hand, is in the business of setting women free from the weakness and fear that tyrannize them. He gives us several biblical role models who were strong enough to stand up to sinful men, at great personal risk to themselves.

We will ignore the detail that none of the six cases listed were women who were directly facing any issues relating to sexual abuse.

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God’s virtuous woman, just like the ones He holds up as our examples, was a force to be reckoned with – a discerning, cool-headed, fearless, and unshakeable soldier of right.

What does God think women need all of these qualities for? Making better muffins?

 

Just look at our lives for examples of what virtuous women should do!

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God knows what many of us didn’t realize before entering adult life

We're not saying whether we specifically knew or not, but we are implying that we have entered adult life.

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God’s ideal woman is a woman who is made for battle, because that’s what our lives are all about: doing battle for the Lord every day.

Also we've decided to join the army!

Part 5

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The reality is, we all have a traitorous sin nature which can sometimes be all too willing to welcome a predator at the gate, enjoy being the occasion for his sin, hanker for the “compliment” of his attention and the gratification of his affection, push us towards him for more, and keep us from tearing away. Not that this makes a predator less culpable if he takes advantage of this, or makes anything he does “our fault” or something that we “deserved” (as we explained in Article 1) – but a predator will definitely see vulnerabilities like this as a golden opportunity, and make the most of it.

We're not victim blaming but...

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Do we say “yes” to inner emotional warm-fuzzies after a guy has flattered us?
Do we say “yes” to the fears that make us keep silent when we know there’s something that needs to be said?
Do we say “yes” to the pressure to go along with things friends want to do, even when we know it’s a bad idea?
Do we say “yes” to the temptation to do nothing, when doing something sounds really hard and scary?
Do we say “yes” to the temptation (we all have it) to dress or act in a way that will draw men’s eyes to us?
Do we say “no” when a guy friend gives us attention as though we were something other than “a sister, with all purity”?
Do we say “no” to the temptation to laugh at the inappropriate joke everyone else is laughing at?
Do we say “no” to the inner voice that says “You’re not in any position to call someone to account for something – you’re a sinner too!”
Do we own the responsibility for our own sin, without blaming others?
Do we let other people dictate our sense of right and wrong, to the point that we feel guilt over things that weren’t wrong?
Do we ask first what God thinks about everything, before consulting our own inclinations and feelings?
Do we back up the things we say with our actions?
Do we approach situations asking what we have to personally gain or lose?

Do we blame victims?  (Also please remember we're talking about sexual assault and abuse, cos we definitely remember that's the subject.)

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In other words, whether or not we could be led captive by men like this hangs on whether we are “weak”; laden down or “piled up” with sins; led around by longings and lusts of various kinds; and in spite of going here and there for answers, not being solidly grounded in the truth.

We're not victim blaming and we're not removing any responsibility from sexual predators, but women who give in are weak, sinful, and ignorant of Truth.

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Emily’s no floozy, but her natural desires are simply a lot stronger than her spiritual ones. Does this feel familiar?

It doesn't to us, because neither of us have been in a relationship.

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We can’t say often enough that Bryan and Bryan alone bears the blame for what Bryan did. Emily’s weaknesses didn’t force Bryan to sin against her, and also didn’t mean that she deserved it. But they did betray her into the hands of a predator when it was fully in her power to escape.

We can't make it very very clear that we're definitely not victim blaming often enough.

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What do you do when you know you don’t have the strength you need?

It's only part 5 of 6 but we've decided to get to the point and tell you what you need to know early.

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In Scripture there is a simple, powerful, life-changing principle that explains how we practically get from point A to point B in our Christian growth. “Do not be deceived,” begins Galatians 6:7,8: “God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 

We've established that what we are teaching is definitely Biblical, by quoting the Bible.  Now we'll tell you what it means.

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If we’re using music, movies, or novels, to sow to inappropriate fantasies, misplaced longings, or emotional roller-coasters, we must not expect to reap purity, clear-mindedness, emotional self-control, and a strong grip on reality. If we’re sowing to moral confusion by sympathizing with people in those movies, music, or novels doing things we know are wrong, we must not expect to reap moral clarity and resolve in the times when we need it most. If we’re sowing to an affection for the wrong things in men, we must not expect to be more drawn to godliness and holiness than good looks, rakish charm, and edgy humor. And if we’re sowing thoughts and actions from our natural desire for men to notice us, like us, want us… we must not expect to respond really selflessly, righteously, and uncompromisingly when one does.

That's right, the solution to the issues of women being sexually abused and assaulted is to only consume media of which we approve.  And by 'we' we mean our father.

 

Next up is a long list of things not to sow, I'll leave that for another time.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

OMG You guyzzzzz...I’m dying. 

http://blindgossip.com/?p=91739

 

i didn’t even take the time to read the actual blknditem before coming here because..lol...the botkinettes are being used by blindgossip which is basically all my internet worlds colliding. 

[acheronbeach]

1 hour ago, Escapefromfundiedom said:

OMG You guyzzzzz...I’m dying. 

http://blindgossip.com/?p=91739

 

i didn’t even take the time to read the actual blknditem before coming here because..lol...the botkinettes are being used by blindgossip which is basically all my internet worlds colliding. 

Omgwtffff? I never thought my love of "closeted Travolta/Cruise gossip" would collide with my fundie obsession!!!!

[hoipolloi]

What the hell? Are the Botkinettes now reduced to being stock photos in someone's digital archive??

 

[Howl]

OK, OK, I did not see this twist coming.  FJ, I adore you so hard. 

[bluelady]

11 hours ago, Escapefromfundiedom said:

OMG You guyzzzzz...I’m dying. 

http://blindgossip.com/?p=91739

 

i didn’t even take the time to read the actual blknditem before coming here because..lol...the botkinettes are being used by blindgossip which is basically all my internet worlds colliding. 

I was just coming to post this!  I don't much follow the Botkins so when I saw the picture, I stared at it a second trying to figure out how I recognized them!

[Lisafer]

The way the Botkins use Deuteronomy 22:24 to victim blame makes me so angry. I thought for years that if somebody tried to rape me, even with a gun to my head or a knife to my throat, and I did not scream for help, that I would have been equally as guilty as the rapist. 

Growing up, we were forced to listen to audio sermons by this one "preacher" (he's pictured in the second-to-last photo on the original "Bringing Home Rebecca" blog post by the Reins sisters). He insisted unequivocally on this same doctrine. If you were raped and didn't scream for help, you were guilty and worthy of death, even if the rapist was physically threatening you. His actual quote? "There are fates worse than death." Fuck. Him. Even seeing pictures of that guy today makes me physically uncomfortable, because he was (and is) such an asshole. 

I've been followed and harassed simply after speaking pleasantly to someone. And at the time I was dressed in 1880s period costume, collar to my neck and skirt to my ankles! Was it my clothes? 

 

[acheronbeach]

11 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

What the hell? Are the Botkinettes now reduced to being stock photos in someone's digital archive??

Usually the blinds written by BlindGossip choose accompanying pictures that are meant to be a hint.  This one, though, I think was just chosen for hair colour because the top guesses are Aniston/Selena Gomez.  I don't see how the Botkinettes could be a hint for either of those women or Justin Theroux.  

[Mrs. Bean]

15 hours ago, Lisafer said:

The way the Botkins use Deuteronomy 22:24 to victim blame makes me so angry. I thought for years that if somebody tried to rape me, even with a gun to my head or a knife to my throat, and I did not scream for help, that I would have been equally as guilty as the rapist. 

Growing up, we were forced to listen to audio sermons by this one "preacher" (he's pictured in the second-to-last photo on the original "Bringing Home Rebecca" blog post by the Reins sisters). He insisted unequivocally on this same doctrine. If you were raped and didn't scream for help, you were guilty and worthy of death, even if the rapist was physically threatening you. His actual quote? "There are fates worse than death." Fuck. Him. Even seeing pictures of that guy today makes me physically uncomfortable, because he was (and is) such an asshole. 

I've been followed and harassed simply after speaking pleasantly to someone. And at the time I was dressed in 1880s period costume, collar to my neck and skirt to my ankles! Was it my clothes? 

 

This guy? 

[Lisafer]

@Mrs. Bean Sorry, this guy: 

Spoiler

His name is Richard Bacon. His church was Reformed Presbyterian in name, but almost cult-like in practice from what I can tell. I met him once.

[starfish]

I wonder if the Botkinettes have seen this yet. I know they like to be in the news and all, but they may resent being used as a stock photograph. 

And I bet Natty Darnell will use it as a good excuse to come calling again, to offer his sincerest sympathies to the wronged sister and offer his clammy hand in matrimony. 

[Mrs. Bean]

3 hours ago, Lisafer said:

@Mrs. Bean Sorry, this guy: 

  Hide contents

His name is Richard Bacon. His church was Reformed Presbyterian in name, but almost cult-like in practice from what I can tell. I met him once.

Disgusting self-righteous prick.

[sleepy_doggos]

3 hours ago, Lisafer said:

Mrs. Bean Sorry, this guy: 

Spoiler

His name is Richard Bacon. His church was Reformed Presbyterian in name, but almost cult-like in practice from what I can tell. I met him once.

That picture was taken in a Braum's. How dare they disrespect the best ice cream store??

[Marian the Librarian]

3 hours ago, Lisafer said:

@Mrs. Bean Sorry, this guy: 

  Reveal hidden contents

His name is Richard Bacon. His church was Reformed Presbyterian in name, but almost cult-like in practice from what I can tell. I met him once.

And I'm just sure that Good Sir Reverend Bacon was first in line, offering financial support to stay-at-home, income-less wife Rebecca and her two small sons, when hubs had to do prison time for illegal gun sales.

[Lisafer]

17 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

And I'm just sure that Good Sir Reverend Bacon was first in line, offering financial support to stay-at-home, income-less wife Rebecca and her two small sons, when hubs had to do prison time for illegal gun sales.

I know, right? You're supposed to be completely dependent, living life a certain way, but nobody's going to take you in when it all goes to hell in a handbasket!

[sleepy_doggos]

This guy? 

Omg. This photo is in Braum's too. Wtf? Why is everyone awful at Braum's?

[Lisafer]

6 minutes ago, sleepy_doggos said:

 

 

Omg. This photo is in Braum's too. Wtf? Why is everyone awful at Braum's?

 

Actually I know a fundie family who looooooves Braum's...maybe it just attracts fundies!

[Marian the Librarian]

Recipe for a Little Princess That Will Never Know the Workplace Sundae:

Two scoops of ice cream, preferably Keep Sweet flavor. Top with subservience sauce, no-college whipped cream, and all the patriarchal nuts you can find. Serve, presented attractively on a SOTDRT diploma.

 

 

[Lisafer]

12 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Recipe for a Little Princess That Will Never Know the Workplace Sundae:

Two scoops of ice cream, preferably Keep Sweet flavor. Top with subservience sauce, no-college whipped cream, and all the patriarchal nuts you can find. Serve, presented attractively on a SOTDRT diploma.

 

 

Of course, this sundae should probably be served at Chik-fil-A, not Braum's!

[sleepy_doggos]

Of course, this sundae should probably be served at Chik-fil-A, not Braum's!

Mmm. I choose to say it's my favorite flavor, no matter my true preferences.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Marian the Librarian said:

and all the patriarchal nuts you can find.

Now that's a thought.  Do you mean nut in the mental health or gonadular sense and can one glean them like pecans?  Inquiring mind ...