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Mela99

Ian and Larissa's baby was born yesterday

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Waffle Time
Mela99

Baby Boy Dietrich was born yesterday morning. Larissa posted on Facebook and showed a picture of Ian holding the baby. 

Name is interesting. I was expecting something very biblical -- or, to be honest -- something very easy for Ian to pronounce. 

I hope they're both very happy and Larissa gets all the help she can get.

 

 

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Waffle Time
mango_fandango

Dietrich? Do they have German ancestry or something? 

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Georgiana
3 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Dietrich? Do they have German ancestry or something? 

Sounds more hipster-trendy to me. But it shortens nicely to D, which will be easier for Ian. 

I hope they transition smoothly to their new lives as parents!

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Koala

It's hard for me to get excited about this (read: I can't), as issues of consent loom large in my mind.  

I think if Larissa were in Ian's shoes, we'd see a very different reaction to him impregnating her and having her carry a child to term.  To say nothing of saddling her with the responsibilities of raising a child.

As any of the parents here can tell you, raising a child is not for the faint of heart.  It's a joy, but it's a job.  A job that it's unfair for Ian to have placed on his shoulders, in my opinion.

I do feel that Ian's father emotionally manipulated Larissa, essentially telling her she must marry Ian or get out of his life.  

Why?  Why couldn't she transition from a girlfriend to a support/friend role in his life?  The answer is pretty obvious.  Long term care.  

It's a sad situation, but I don't think bringing a baby into it was the answer.  He's here now though, so I wish them the best.

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Palimpsest

Congratulations to them both.  I wish Larissa, Ian, and baby Dietrich all the best.

 

 

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Koala
23 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

I'm not familiar with this family. What is wrong with Ian?

He was in a car crash and suffered a TBI.  At that time, he and Larissa were dating, but after the accident Ian's father pretty much told Larissa to marry Ian or move along (note that at this point, his father was managing the relationship on Ian's behalf, not Ian himself).  

If I recall correctly they had to get a judge's consent to marry (due to the fact that Ian wasn't able to give consent). 

http://ianandlarissa.com/

Edited by Koala

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Palimpsest
17 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

I'm not familiar with this family. What is wrong with Ian?

 

TBI from a car accident.  He has made an incredible recovery over the years.  He is able to walk and communicate his thoughts now, but is still significantly disabled. 

To some here that means he is incapable of consent to sex or parenthood, although a judge and plenty of medical professionals obviously disagree.  They also think that sex with disabled people is squicky, that Larissa raped Ian, and is too brain-washed and burdened by her disabled husband to be able to parent a child properly. 

Larissa and Ian actually have plenty of professional and family assistance.  His brother and his wife live with them and also have a child.

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Mischievous
Gobsmacked

Thankyou Koala and Pslimpsest.

They seem very happy together from the photos.

Hope all works well for them.

Another rabbit hole!

Edited by Gobsmacked
For some reason the post duplicated itself?!!

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Palimpsest
36 minutes ago, Koala said:

If I recall correctly they had to get a judge's consent to marry (due to the fact that Ian wasn't able to give consent). 

Clarification:  They had to have a competency hearing, as Ian's capacity to consent was doubtful at the time.  The judge's decision was that Ian was capable of informed consent to marriage (and all that it entails) so they were able to marry. http://www.the3rdjudicialdistrict.com/0803.html

 

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Koala
1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

 They also think that sex with disabled people is squicky

Are the "they" you are referring to FJ members?  If so, would you mind quoting them?  I must have totally overlooked it.

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

 He is able to walk and communicate his thoughts now, but is still significantly disabled. 

Now this is where I will be happy to acknowledge it, if I was mistaken.  I haven't seen any videos of Ian communicating his thoughts.  I am not saying they don't exist, just that in the videos I've seen, there has been no significant communication.  

In the video I am about to link, Larissa talks about making the decision to marry based on what Ian said/did before the accident (min: 4:03).  She does say that Ian can communicate, but there is no real evidence of that in the video.  I think at one point he says, "Hi wifey" and when asked how his day went he says what sounds like, "I love you".

At min 6:10 she talks about his dad telling her they need to make a decision about what they are going to do.  Why did his dad need to do that if Ian was capable of making decisions for himself?  Why was his father a part of that aspect of their relationship?

Larissa said that the conversation (which really sounds a lot like an ultimatum) with his father is the reason they decided to pursue engagement.

Do I think Larissa is a bad person?  No.  Her writings are tragic, and you can tell she deals with a lot of depression over the direction her life has taken.  

Like I said, if there is a video that I've missed, showing that Ian has progressed and is now having meaningful conversations, please point them out to me so that I can apologize.  

If not, this is my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  I maintain that if this was a woman (in Ian's exact same situation), there would be an outcry like no other if her husband impregnated her and had her carry a child to term.

I do wish them both the best. 

*edited, because I found the video on Youtube*

Edited by Koala

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Palimpsest
1 hour ago, Koala said:

Are the "they" you are referring to FJ members?  If so, would you mind quoting them?  I must have totally overlooked it.

Oh, God, not again.  I am so tired of this because I have said it all before.

Yes, on FJ.  No, I'm not going to do that.  Too many threads and far too many grossly insensitive and immature comments over many threads.  Just one example - on the last I & L thread someone got all squicked out and found it necessary to decide Larissa was "harvesting sperm."   People with disabilities, even as significant as Ian's, can actively participate in, receive and give pleasure, and enjoy sex.  There was no need to go there.  

There is a newish video out there where Larissa comments that Ian's brain injury makes him sometimes blurt out "inappropriate" comments.  I watched that and I don't have any doubt that Ian enjoys sex!  Talking about sex at inappropriate times doesn't mean someone is incompetent to make decisions.  (Although I have my doubts about J.B. Duggar.)

I probably have more experience in communicating with people with dysphasia than you do, and I find Ian quite understandable.  I also probably have a lot more experience with assessing competency and issues around informed consent than most - from both clinical and policy angles.  I used to work for APS and these issues come up all the time across the board regardless of sex, gender or orientation.

The original competency hearing was because *someone* had raised concerns about Ian's capacity to give informed consent to marriage.  Competency Hearings don't come out of the blue.   It is both a medical and legal issue.  The judge takes everything into consideration, medical evaluations included, and makes a decision, whether you or the general public agree with that decision it is based on solid evidence.  Ian has improved immensely since then.

I also think Larissa was unfairly pressured into marriage by Ian's father and their brand of Christianity.  I think she has chosen a hard road.  I also think she is a sensible adult who loves Ian as he is now, is a good provider, and will be a good parent.  She too has come a long way, and probably having a child will help with the depression she has shown in the past.  Ian may not be able to parent much but he seems really happy about being a father. 

If the ability to have a "meaningful" conversation, and one that is understandable to Koala despite dysphasia (or even complete aphasia), is the measure of fitness for sex and parenthood then I can point to an awful lot of people who should never have been allowed to have children.

1 hour ago, Koala said:

If not, this is my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  I maintain that if this was a woman (in Ian's exact same situation), there would be an outcry like no other if her husband impregnated her and had her carry a child to term.

I'll leave it.  My more educated opinion says otherwise.  I would also add that plenty of women with disabilities have had children, even those with brain injuries.  You just haven't heard about them. 

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Koala
8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I also think Larissa was unfairly pressured into marriage by Ian's father and their brand of Christianity.  I think she has chosen a hard road.  I also think she is a sensible adult who loves Ian as he is now, is a good provider, and will be a good parent.  She too has come a long way, and probably having a child will help with the depression she has shown in the past.  Ian may not be able to parent much but he seems really happy about being a father. 

For clarity, you think having this child will possibly help with Larissa's depression, and you acknowledge that Ian will likely not be able to "parent much"?

That's a tall order for a child to fill. Mom has depression that he/she will probably "help" with. Dad is not able to parent much.  

There's not a lot I can say to that...

 

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EmiGirl

Aren't these the pepole who had to give awayy a fog because he couldn't tolerate the noise or something of that nature? How in the world is a baby going to be tolerated?  

I just really don't see how this was a responsible decision. I don't see how this could help depression, just worsen it by the added stress.

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ladyamylynn

"Thinking it's icky" is a bit of a glib mischaracterization, but I'll admit @Palimpsest  obviously has more experience in this area so I'll not argue the details. What does bother me, and I think this is indisputable, is that they're using Ian to push an agenda. And while a judge gave permission for him to marry and all that entails, including having a baby, there's no way he can give consent for the way he's been paraded around as some sort of inspirational emotional porn.  Maybe he would prefer privacy, but too many people seem to have an agenda and he comes across as a bit of a prop, which isn't right in my opinion.

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Palimpsest

 

8 minutes ago, Koala said:

For clarity, you think having this child will possibly help with Larissa's depression, and you acknowledge that Ian will likely not be able to "parent much"?

That's a tall order for a child to fill. Mom has depression that he/she will probably "help" with.

You misunderstood me (or I wrote it badly).  I think part of Larissa's depression was situational, a fear that she couldn't cope, and fear that she would never have children because of Ian's situation.  

She has learned to cope, has seemed much happier recently, and Ian's overall health has improved.  You seem stuck on the early days. I don't expect the child to do anything other than exist and be loved to pieces by his parents, his extended family and their very supportive friends and community.

12 minutes ago, Koala said:

Dad is not able to parent much.  

There's not a lot I can say to that...

Ian has limitations but will be able to parent as much as he can.  Larissa is capable and she has support.

Do you believe that it is necessary for all children to have two fully functional (to your exacting standards) parents.  What do you say to single mothers?  Single parents who adopt?  Would you deny a paraplegic woman a child?  How about a amputee father who can't lift his child? Visually impaired people shouldn't reproduce because they can't watch their children properly?  If you suffered a TBI should your husband put your kids up for adoption because he can't cope with caring for both you and the children?

What are your criteria for parenthood?  Who should not reproduce?

It is a very slippery slope.

2 minutes ago, EmiGirl said:

Aren't these the pepole who had to give awayy a fog because he couldn't tolerate the noise or something of that nature?

No. That was a different couple.  And that family seems to be coping nicely, thanks.  They just had their second child.

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Carm_88

I haven't followed this couple very much but I'm glad that the baby was born healthy. I hope that Ian and Larissa are happy. :) 

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Koala
38 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Do you believe that it is necessary for all children to have two fully functional (to your exacting standards) parents.  What do you say to single mothers?  Single parents who adopt?  Would you deny a paraplegic woman a child?  How about a amputee father who can't lift his child? Visually impaired people shouldn't reproduce because they can't watch their children properly? 

No, I don't think it's necessary for all children to have 2 parents (I was raised by a single mother), but I do think it's extremely important that potential parents be able to consent to becoming parents, and then parent the child they brought into the world.  It doesn't always work out that way (my father chose not to parent), but I don't think it's an unreasonable goal.  The consent issue is non negotiable in my book.  HUGE deal. You'll never convince me that it's okay for one person to make the decision for both to become parents.

I also think it's fine for single parents to adopt, but again, they need to be able to consent to adopting, and then actually parent the child they adopt.  Do you think there are no standards for potential adoptive parents?  Do you think that an adoption would be approved if the prospective parent said that "they wouldn't be able to parent much" or that the child would "help with depression"?  Of course not, because while it's hard to set an exact standard, there is a limit to what would be considered an acceptable candidate for adopting. 

No, I wouldn't deny a paraplegic the right to adopt.  A paraplegic can parent. Same for the other examples you listed.  What we are talking about is the ability to consent, and the ability to parent.

38 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

If you suffered a TBI should your husband put your kids up for adoption because he can't cope with caring for both you and the children?

What a ridiculous question.  No one here has suggested any such thing.  That said, I can say for certain that he (my husband) wouldn't try to produce more children.  

Edited by Koala

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Palimpsest
34 minutes ago, Koala said:

What a ridiculous question.

Ah, it was just a spot of hyperbole as you seem prone to it. :)

As I said, it is a very slippery slope when it comes to deciding who should or should not have children.  We'll be back to eugenics, forced sterilization, and so-called euthenasia of people with disabilities if we are not careful.

I always think it is sad when people think they can judge capacity to consent so accurately over the internet.  How do you know Larissa made a unilateral decision?   How can you possibly judge Ian's capabilities from where you sit on your high horse?  

Competency and capacity to consent are incredibly complex and controversial issues.  That's why they are both medical and legal issues.  Also be glad that they are taken so seriously.  You don't want your rights taken away from you if you ever have a brain injury, believe me.

I'm done with this discussion, Koala.   Deliberate obtuseness irritates me.  So do people who sit in judgement over things they obviously don't understand.

I truly wish the best for Ian, Larissa, and Little Deitrich.  Along with the other challenges the family faces, they are going to find an awful lot of Koalas sitting in judgement.

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laPapessaGiovanna

There are few topics as controversial as the sexuality of people with a cognitive delay or a brain injury and all what it entails. 

This conversation reminds of lively debate that was sparked that time when at a Uni class we watched a docu-movie on doctor Basaglia's work in Trieste's asylum. He was the one who fought to free mental health patients from asylums  in my country and prompted a radical change in the law (in1978) and in the collective conscience. In the movie it was portrayed very well the shock of the authorities when it is discovered that the patients were left free to live their sexuality too and were provided with contraceptives and sex ed. Nowadays the attitude towards most mental illnesses has changed and we more than ever before tend to consider them on the same level of physical ailments that can cause disabilities of variable gravity that must be considered differently on a case by case basis, but that in any case don't impact a person's rights and dignity. The only widespread exceptions to this attitude are towards people with what we perceive as a cognitive delay. We as a society tend to treat them as less then and limit their rights, including the possibility of a fulfilling affective and sexual life. Sometimes there are good reasons to intervene to save a person from an exploitative situation, or because he/she isn't able to give a fully formed consent. This is why I am happy that professionals got involved in this case and I take the court's educated decision as a word that I have no reasons to doubt.  

Admittedly I didn't read the whole blog but Larissa seems to be well aware of Ian's limits and possibilities, she seems aware that her husband disabilities will probably have her shoulder more than what in different circumstances would have been her part of the burden of raisind a child and she is fine with it. Being aware of the situation they made their choices and seem to be happy to live by them. They will probably be as good as parents as "poor Amy" and her husband. Good for them, I really wish them the best luck.

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna

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lilwriter85

I wish them well. As other posters pointed out they receive a lot of help from Ian's family. I hope Larissa and others in the household don't get burned out and if they do i hope they find support. I wonder if Ian and Larissa have ever connected with Kate and Ben Rye. 

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Palimpsest
2 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

"Thinking it's icky" is a bit of a glib mischaracterization, but I'll admit @Palimpsest  obviously has more experience in this area so I'll not argue the details. What does bother me, and I think this is indisputable, is that they're using Ian to push an agenda. And while a judge gave permission for him to marry and all that entails, including having a baby, there's no way he can give consent for the way he's been paraded around as some sort of inspirational emotional porn.  Maybe he would prefer privacy, but too many people seem to have an agenda and he comes across as a bit of a prop, which isn't right in my opinion.

I think both Ian and Larissa were taken advantage of and exploited by Piper's agenda.  

I am glad they have decided to stop blogging and giving talks and interviews.  Let them enjoy their lives and child in peace.

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