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The 2017 March for Life


lilwriter85

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It's not shocking, I was actually waiting for him to get sick of saying "Abortion is murder!" and stomp out. Still, it was fun while it lasted! 

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8 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I mean, the arguments are so tired.

Yes and Gabe trotted them out on schedule.  #Ignorant little fart.

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I am not scared of facts nor am I scared of you.

The morning after Pill works by constricting the tubes which can either prevent sperm from reaching an egg or prevent a fertilized egg from reaching the womb long enough for it to die before implantation. Thus it can be an abortifacient.

21 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

A lot. We aren't exactly poor people, but we do live well under our means. We have a small house that is paid for and we both drive older vehicles that are also paid for. We try to live a life that isn't consumer driven, so we don't buy tons of stuff we don't need. Because of living well below our means, we can actually donate a large amount of our income to various organizations*. We also support our tax dollars going to help people. 

Good for you.

21 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

*shit, this came off really sanctimonious! I don't judge folks who don't live like us, this is just our thing. Well, I do judge folks who try to stop their tax dollars from helping the poor and needy and then also only donate a tiny amount of their income to help others, and then expect pats on the back like they have done something grand. 

I don't expect a pat on the back. (I wouldn't ever get it from you) Just countering the notion that pro-life people don't do anything to care for the poor. Most people I know do more than me. (of course most of them are older and more prosperous)

When I do leave the thread, it will be because I have better things to waste my time on, not because the facts drove me away. I have only heard a bunch of drivel so far.

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7 minutes ago, Gabe said:

When I do leave the thread, it will be because I have better things to waste my time on, not because the facts drove me away. I have only heard a bunch of drivel so far.

You have heard the truth. Whether you want to admit it or not. You just want to stick on the same points.

A) Abortion is murder. 

B: Plan B causes Abortions

C. We don't know anything. 

And I should say that @formergothardite backed up all her facts with videos proving you wrong. So what's your point here? 

 

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13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The morning after Pill works by constricting the tubes which can either prevent sperm from reaching an egg or prevent a fertilized egg from reaching the womb long enough for it to die before implantation. Thus it can be an abortifacient.

Nope, it doesn't. It works by preventing ovulation or from sperm from reaching the egg. It does not prevent fertilization. Did you watch any of those videos? They used pictures to explain it all. The abortion pill and the morning after pill are two different things, you know that, right? Plan B WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM GETTING PREGNANT IF FERTILIZATION HAS TAKEN PLACE! 

By the way, when I was Gabe's age, I said stuff just like he is saying in this thread. You never know how folks will end up. 

13 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I have only heard a bunch of drivel so far.

And yet, when asked to provide proof that your idea of making abortion a crime lowers abortion rates, you have provided nothing. If your ideas won't cause less abortions, why go with them? 

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2 hours ago, Gabe said:

Since when does opposition to legally sanctioned murder morph into a duty to personally provide the necessities of life to every human being on earth?

So you oppose legally sanctioned murder...

2 hours ago, Gabe said:

I support the prosecution of murder (commonly called abortion) and the execution of convicted perpetrators.

except that you support it.

9 minutes ago, Gabe said:

When I do leave the thread, it will be because I have better things to waste my time on, not because the facts drove me away. I have only heard a bunch of drivel so far.

OK, bye.  That is if you're leaving.  Or does this mean that you're staying?  Oh, and thanks for acknowledging the facts.

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Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Pregnancy does not occur until the fertalized egg implants. These are medical terms that have defined meanings. You don't get to change them just because it makes your argument sound better. 

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17 hours ago, formergothardite said:

....how they think the fetus is equal to a human who is born all while refusing to actually treat a fetus like a human...

Snipped

So let's take their argument out a little further. They say zygote is a human and if mom aborts she gets charged with a crime. So if a baby is born and the act of giving birth causes the mom's death, does the baby now get charged with murder? or the doctor or the dad because they knew it was a risk for mom to survive the birth?

In case Gabe and others didn't know, the medical code for a miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion*" which makes me wonder if pro-life stats include these in their stats

*at least that is what was on my EOB 14 years ago when I had a miscarriage

 

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If one looks at the statistics, the abortion rates go DOWN during democratic administrations...might have something to do with democratic support for social safety nets. 

So, if you're anti-abortion and anti-universal health care, anti-social safety nets, anti-education, anti-SNAP, anti-WIC, anti-childcare help, then you are a piece of rubbish who is not "pro-life", you want to control women and take away their choices. We are not walking incubators to incubate your spawn. So sorry...hell no. 

And if you wish to force women to carry fetuses with catastrophic and lethal defects, then YOU should be willing to take on the emotional, financial, physical burdens...you pontificate and walk away. 

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@Dandruff spoke my mind.

@Gabe, why are you wasting your time here?  Genuine question.

Is arguing with evil feminists and murderers on the internet your new ministry?  Do you not have work to do, a side business to develop, and kilts to make?  Surely you would be much better occupied getting more prosperous so you can donate more money, or even breeding arrows for your quiver?

Just now, quiversR4hunting said:

In case Gabe and others didn't know, the medical code for a miscarriage is "spontaneous abortion*" which makes me wonder if pro-life stats include these in their stats

Some do. And some want miscarriages investigated.  If Gabe and his ilk have their way, all spontaneous abortions will probably be prosecuted and murderers women who are unfortunate enough to have them will be executed.

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I just wanted to  note, that the Plan B info does say that it might prevent implantation. But this explain why it says that when it really doesn't. The anti-choice movement seems to purposely act like the morning after pill is the same as the abortion pill instead of telling the truth, which confuses many of their followers. 

.

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Studies have not established that emergency contraceptive pills prevent fertilized eggs from implanting in the womb, leading scientists say. Rather, the pills delay ovulation, the release of eggs from ovaries that occurs before eggs are fertilized, and some pills also thicken cervical mucus so sperm have trouble swimming.

 

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The notion that morning-after pills prevent eggs from implanting stems from the Food and Drug Administration’s decision during the drug-approval process to mention that possibility on the label — despite lack of scientific proof, scientists say, and objections by the manufacturer of Plan B, the pill on the market the longest. Leading scientists say studies since then provide strong evidence that Plan B does not prevent implantation, and no proof that a newer type of pill, Ella, does

 

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European medical authorities have not mentioned an effect on implantation on Ella’s label, and after months of scrutiny, Ella was approved for sale in overwhelmingly Catholic Italy, where laws would have barred it if it could be considered to induce abortion, said Erin Gainer, chief executive of Ella’s manufacturer, Paris-based HRA Pharma.

 

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Experts say implantation was likely placed on the label partly because daily birth control pills, some of which contain Plan B’s active ingredient, appear to alter the endometrium, the lining of the uterus into which fertilized eggs implant. Altering the endometrium has not been proven to interfere with implantation. But in any case, scientists say that unlike the accumulating doses of daily birth control pills, the one-shot dose in morning-after pills does not have time to affect the uterine lining.

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By 2007, scientific consensus was building that morning-after pills did not block implantation. In one study using fertilized eggs that would have been discarded from fertility clinics, Dr. Gemzell-Danielsson found that adding Plan B in a dish did not prevent them from attaching to cells that line the uterus.

 

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27 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Some do. And some want miscarriages investigated.  If Gabe and his ilk have their way, all spontaneous abortions will probably be prosecuted and murderers women who are unfortunate enough to have them will be executed.

Yeah, I know we're all using "why not investigate miscarriages" as a sort of absurdist thing, but given the fetal burial laws that Texas just put into effect, it kind of seems like that might be a reality in the future... brrrr.

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyhooooooooooo, you can't take organs/blood/bone from a dead body for use in a life-saving transplant surgery unless the dead body has previously consented to be an organ donor, so even if a fetus is a human life, you still can't require a woman to "donate" her organs to save it if she does not consent. Just for what it's worth.

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Ella was approved for sale in overwhelmingly Catholic Italy, where laws would have barred it if it could be considered to induce abortion, said Erin Gainer, 

Only to specify that "overwhelmingly Catholic Italy" legalized abortion many years before I was born (1978) and confirmed the law through a referendum in 1981 (68% of voters chose to confirm the law), with much dismay of the bigots. Here you can abort for whatever reason during the first trimester and then after that term for medical reasons only.

The debate referenced was about the possibility to sell the morning after pill with a prescription or even OTC, if it were an abortifacient it would have been unacceptable because abortions must be performed in clinical settings to protect women's health.

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1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Yes and Gabe trotted them out on schedule.  #Ignorant little fart.

Such an appropriate description. And as I tell my kids, never trust a fart.

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8 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Only to specify that "overwhelmingly Catholic Italy" legalized abortion many years before I was born (1978) and confirmed the law through a referendum in 1981 (68% of voters chose to confirm the law), with much dismay of the bigots. Here you can abort for whatever reason during the first trimester and then after that term for medical reasons only.

The debate referenced was about the possibility to sell the morning after pill with a prescription or even OTC, if it were an abortifacient it would have been unacceptable because abortions must be performed in clinical settings to protect women's health.

I was wondering about that, thanks for explaining a bit more. It is amazing how far America is behind when it comes to women's rights. I have a feeling things will only get worse here before it gets better. 

And just a note, one doesn't have to spend money to help out those at risk. If you value life, then you can call your representatives when they want to not help refugees, you can vote against people like Trump who is stirring up hate, you can protest the Wall of Racism and his weekly list of crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Avoid chocolate and coffee produced by child slaves. There is a lot to do that doesn't involve money. 

 

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1 hour ago, Gabe said:

The morning after Pill works by constricting the tubes which can either prevent sperm from reaching an egg or prevent a fertilized egg from reaching the womb long enough for it to die before implantation. Thus it can be an abortifacient.

No, it doesn't.  The Fallopian tubes do not constrict. The morning after pill (Plan Bworks through delaying ovulation.  I did a literature search to make sure nothing has turned up recently contradicting this and found three studies saying it is not effective after ovulation has occurred. 

Please stop getting your scientific and medical info from whatever source you used. 

Fallopian tube constriction has never even been hypothesized as a mechanism for Plan B.

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"The tubes constrict"

I just...

LOL.  No.

I come from a family of many medical professionals - doctors, nurses, physician assistants - and we are all very amused.  

 

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I did a search trying to figure out where he got this from.  I found one study saying Plan B can stop the Fallopian tubes from contracting, which could possibly keep the egg from reaching the uterus.  But studies of groups of women taking Plan B before or after ovulation show no effectiveness after ovulation, so this mechanism does not affect zygote mobility enough to prevent implantation. 

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42 minutes ago, Petrel said:

Please stop getting your scientific and medical info from whatever source you used.

In his defense, he is probably getting it all from quack anti-choice science that many of us had beat into our heads growing up. It wasn't till I became a member here that I discovered that the Silent Scream was faked. And I spent years truly believing doctors delivered babies, stabbed them in the head with scissors and sucked their brains out with a vacuum. Young pro-life version of me thought I knew science and all about abortion but truly knew nothing. 

I know Gabe can sound insufferable, but I hope that perhaps he will at some point pause to think about all this. 

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I still want to know how it's moral to force a woman to carry a pregnancy that she doesn't want. Pregnancy wreaks permanent havoc on a body...I certainly wouldn't want to be forced to go through that.

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http://time.com/4651958/mike-pence-anti-abortion-supreme-court-justice-march-for-life/

I can't help but feel that Trump is really... not that great of an "advocate" for anti-choicers to show off. To me, the Republicans lost their claim to "moral" when they lined up behind him.

I had a "discussion" with my mother a few days ago -- first time I realized she was anti-choice. The gist of it I got was that all that matters is carrying the pregnancy to term; afterwards, you have to suck it up and accept your punishment.

So in short... quality of life doesn't matter, so long as you have one. And if you're born into a crappy situation, well, that's just too bad. Bootstraps!

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3 hours ago, Gabe said:

The morning after Pill works by constricting the tubes which can either prevent sperm from reaching an egg or prevent a fertilized egg from reaching the womb long enough for it to die before implantation. Thus it can be an abortifacient.

 

Do you realize how dangerous it would be if Plan B actually worked like this? Fertilized eggs can and do implant in fallopian tubes when the tubes are blocked by scar tissue (or something else). If Plan B worked by constricting the tube, it could result in ectopic (or tubal) pregnancies and could kill women. Never mind that fallopian tubes don't even constrict in the first place.

Plan B works in three ways:

1. It stops ovaries from releasing eggs.

2. It prevents fertilization.

3. It makes the uterine environment hostile to implantation (this is the only one you could possibly use to call it an abortifacient, btw).

Quote

 

I am not scared of facts


 

 

Then maybe learn some.

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