The 2017 March for Life

[unholypoledancer]

There are barrier methods, like the diaphragm (my choice). Or heck, even pulling out. I don't see how those constitute murder either.

And no, those aren't 100% foolproof, but that's not the point (since no bc is 100% foolproof) when you use them and they work, I don't see how it's murder.

[Carm_88]

5 minutes ago, Gabe said:

You are showing your own ignorance not revealing mine. I said "most" not all. I am specifically referring to the drugs that prevent implantation after fertilization or poison the developing child.

Well that is most hormonal birth controls which are the most common kind. I personally don't know of anything that prevents implantation. I mean there's an IUD but most of those are hormonal now and the copper kind repels sperm. A diaphragm is a barrier method and so is a condom (which are very commonly used). Most of it is just progesterone and estrogen in different doses. There's really nothing poisonous as we have that anyway. Spermicides kill sperm...I'm not an expert here but I'm not seeing what you're talking about.

[Buzzard]

 

 

The "atrocity" of a women's march?  

[unholypoledancer]

They do realize that for some of us, the women's march that just occurred this January is not merely PL/PC, right? Some of us would like equal wages for equal work, too.

[Buzzard]

A "real" women's march apparently requires men to tell women what they can and cant do with their bodies.

[Gabe]

7 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Well that is most hormonal birth controls which are the most common kind. I personally don't know of anything that prevents implantation. I mean there's an IUD but most of those are hormonal now and the copper kind repels sperm. A diaphragm is a barrier method and so is a condom (which are very commonly used). Most of it is just progesterone and estrogen in different doses. There's really nothing poisonous as we have that anyway. Spermicides kill sperm...I'm not an expert here but I'm not seeing what you're talking about.

The Morning after pill the Abortion Pill...

In a consistently pro-life position, only actions that destroy a united sperm and egg are considered wrong. Thus while I might have a problem with a hormonal birth control option from a religious point of view. It does not destroy a human life and is therefore not murder.

[formergothardite]

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

And yet I give away more than 10% of my own after tax earnings to help provide for the poor in my community. Aren't you kind of arguing from a lack of evidence here?

Only 10%?  Again, what evidence do you have that putting women who have abortions in jail lowers abortion rates? Anything? A quick search shows that the studies don't seem to show that treating abortion like murder lowers abortion rates.

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

If an accuser (advocate for the child) accuses a mother of intentionally aborting her child an investigation of a miscarriage would be appropriate.

So if my newborn died in my care, nobody should look into it as long as no one accuses me of killing the baby? If I had three newborns in a row die in my care, the police shouldn't investigate? How many newborns can die in my care before someone looks into it? If a fetus is like a baby, then it appears that newborns can die in the care of their mother without anyone investigating, in your opinion.

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Evidence is highly lacking here

Quote

Our study found robust empirical patterns suggesting that the Mexico City Policy is associated with increases in abortion rates in sub-Saharan African countries. 

 

Quote

 the association is strong: the odds of having an abortion in highly exposed countries were more than twice the odds observed in the reference groups.

Quote

the timing of divergence between high and low exposure countries is coincident with the policy’s reinstatement: in high exposure countries, abortion rates began to rise noticeably only after the Mexico City Policy was reinstated in 2001 and the increase became more pronounced from 2002 onward.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/12/11-091660/en/

You support raising abortion rates if you support the Mexican City Policy.

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

BS (also most birth control mechanisms are abortifacient and therefore also constitute murder.)

Quote

Providing birth control to women at no cost substantially reduced unplanned pregnancies and cut abortion rates by a range of 62-78 percent compared to the national rate, a new study show

Quote

“This study shows that by removing barriers to highly-effective contraceptive methods such as IUDs and implants, we can reduce unintended pregnancies and the need for abortions,”

https://source.wustl.edu/2012/10/abortion-rates-plummet-with-free-birth-control/

IUD's don't cause abortions. Here is a little fun video on how they do work. 

 

[ShepherdontheRock]

The irony of a man holding up a sign about a "real woman's" march. 

It's just as bad as the man with the "I regret my abortion" sign. 

 

[formergothardite]

9 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The Morning after pill the Abortion Pill..

Very, very wrong. The morning after pill works by preventing fertilization. It will not work if fertilization has already taken place. Another video on how this all works and how it doesn't cause abortions. 

 

[Carm_88]

10 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The Morning after pill the Abortion Pill...

In a consistently pro-life position, only actions that destroy a united sperm and egg are considered wrong. Thus while I might have a problem with a hormonal birth control option from a religious point of view. It does not destroy a human life and is therefore not murder.

The morning after pill keeps fertilization from occurring. But you don't care. None of it is murder, you just want sit on your high horses and dictate. I notice you haven't replied about what you do underprivileged children other then pay taxes, which is something that every working adult needs to do. So Im going to assume that once they are born, it doesn't matter. You care about the zygotes and fetuses but not the lives of the children. Nor about the mothers who will have to put their lives on hold, you guys always talk about what the baby might have been but what might those teen mothers have been? But that doesn't matter does it? 

[samurai_sarah]

57 minutes ago, Gabe said:

BS (also most birth control mechanisms are abortifacient and therefore also constitute murder.)

You don't appear to know how many ABC methods work. Or even more traditional ones. Or are you really saying that it's murder to use a condom?

[formergothardite]

There is nothing quite like a man who doesn't understand the basics of birth control telling women what to do with their bodies. 

It is easy to ban abortion when you never have to address what denying abortion does to women. Women become disposable incubators whose lives don't matter one bit. Their lives can be tossed to the side.

[feministxtian]

@Gabe - your stupidity is hanging out. If you want children born but not have them provided for then you are no better than the "pro-aborts" you hate so much. How many kids have you fostered, adopted, cared for? How many mothers have you come alongside and helped? 

Shut up. 

[Gabe]

21 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

The morning after pill keeps fertilization from occurring. But you don't care. None of it is murder, you just want sit on your high horses and dictate. I notice you haven't replied about what you do underprivileged children other then pay taxes, which is something that every working adult needs to do. So Im going to assume that once they are born, it doesn't matter. You care about the zygotes and fetuses but not the lives of the children. Nor about the mothers who will have to put their lives on hold, you guys always talk about what the baby might have been but what might those teen mothers have been? But that doesn't matter does it? 

I know exactly how the morning after pill works. It destroys a fertilized egg which is a human child.

As soon as somebody starts legalizing the murder of born children the pro-life camp will be there to oppose it.

I believe I mentioned after tax giving... How much of your own personal resources do you give to underprivileged children?

34 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Only 10%?  Again, what evidence do you have that putting women who have abortions in jail lowers abortion rates? Anything? A quick search shows that the studies don't seem to show that treating abortion like murder lowers abortion rates.

How much do you give?

Quote

So if my newborn died in my care, nobody should look into it as long as no one accuses me of killing the baby? If I had three newborns in a row die in my care, the police shouldn't investigate? How many newborns can die in my care before someone looks into it? If a fetus is like a baby, then it appears that newborns can die in the care of their mother without anyone investigating, in your opinion.

Your question presupposes too many conditions that I also disagree with for it to be meaningful. The response would have to tackle each one. 

Quote

https://source.wustl.edu/2012/10/abortion-rates-plummet-with-free-birth-control/

The tallied results plummet but the number of children murdered doesn't. 

9 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

You don't appear to know how many ABC methods work. Or even more traditional ones. Or are you really saying that it's murder to use a condom?

You simply assume that.  You are free to use any method to avoid a pregnancy that does not destroy a human child. (The definition of when life begins is when the sperm fertilizes the egg.) Condoms are perfectly fine to use.

1 minute ago, feministxtian said:

@Gabe - your stupidity is hanging out. 

Ad Hominem

[samurai_sarah]

3 minutes ago, Gabe said:

You simply assume that.  You are free to use any method to avoid a pregnancy that does not destroy a human child. (The definition of when life begins is when the sperm fertilizes the egg.)

You assume a lot, but don't appear to know much. So would condoms be okay in your view?

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Ad Hominem

If the shoe fits! You're getting schooled by my sisters here...so...open your mind and maybe you'll learn something. 

[Gabe]

2 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

I asked a question. I would thank you for answering it.

I did, see my edited pst

[samurai_sarah]

Just now, Gabe said:

I did, see my edited pst

Please note my edited post. Thank you.

1 minute ago, samurai_sarah said:

Please note my edited post. Thank you.

P.S.: Saw too late what this was about. My mistake.

[Carm_88]

10 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I believe I mentioned after tax giving... How much of your own personal resources do you give to underprivileged children?

How much do you give?

 

Well I give monthly to the children's hospital so that they can buy toys, I give to homeless shelters that are for women and children, I give to after school programs which help underprivileged children, the local breakfast program which feeds kids who don't get breakfast at home, I give to coats for kids and the happy tree, and I always give to my local food bank. I donate to Planned Parenthood as well, so that they can buy condoms and administer pregnancy tests. 

And as I said I volunteer my time with a number of organizations that help underprivileged women and children. Plus children in general, schools, hospitals. I don't know what portion of my income it is but let's say that I am happy to give it.  

And I live in Canada so I pay more income tax because of universal health care. So you know. 

[samurai_sarah]

So, we can conclude that the pill is fine. Nuva ring, condoms, the implant, etc. Pretty much anything. So what's your stance on women not using any of it? Or men?

[Jana'sHairScrunchie]

10 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I know exactly how the morning after pill works. It destroys a fertilized egg which is a human child.

 

Actually, the morning after pill works the same way as monthly birth control pills, it is just a stronger dose. It is releases hormones that prevent ovulation. Without releasing an egg, there is no fetilization. It's not an abortion. 

[formergothardite]

31 minutes ago, Gabe said:

How much do you give?

A lot. We aren't exactly poor people, but we do live well under our means. We have a small house that is paid for and we both drive older vehicles that are also paid for. We try to live a life that isn't consumer driven, so we don't buy tons of stuff we don't need. Because of living well below our means, we can actually donate a large amount of our income to various organizations*. We also support our tax dollars going to help people. 

31 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I know exactly how the morning after pill works. It destroys a fertilized egg which is a human child.

Nope, nope, nope. You are just spouting propaganda without real knowledge. The morning after pill isn't the abortion pill. The morning after pill prevents fertilization. If an egg is fertilized the pill won't do anything, that is why they tell you that you can still get pregnant after taking the morning after pill. 

*shit, this came off really sanctimonious! I don't judge folks who don't live like us, this is just our thing. Well, I do judge folks who try to stop their tax dollars from helping the poor and needy and then also only donate a tiny amount of their income to help others, and then expect pats on the back like they have done something grand. 

[Carm_88]

I think we scared @Gabe away with facts.  

[formergothardite]

I'm not surprised he doesn't have the faintest idea on how birth control works or how to lower abortion rates. The anti-choice propaganda machine deals with alternative facts, or as people with common sense call them, lies. 

And if one truly believes that abortions kill babies, wouldn't one go with the side that lowers the number of dead babies? Why stick with the side that says killing babies is bad, but then refuses to support things that result in less dead babies? That doesn't make sense. 

[feministxtian]

3 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I think we scared @Gabe away with facts.  

That's usually when they turn and run...I had a "discussion" earlier with some looney tunes on the local TV station face book page. I mean, the arguments are so tired. It was telling when I had men jumping on me...and cranking out those pictures from "life news now".