Duggars by the Dozen, Parts 25- More threads than Duggars

[front hugs > duggs]

Obviously speculation, but I don't think Derick will get involved in ATI and maybe not IBLP. Don't get me wrong- I think he is fully fundy, I just see him taking a different route, and I don't think Jill will win that battle. Derick is definitely more headstrong than Ben. He may homeschool, though I'm not too sure- I think he may realize that Jill homeschooling will not result in Izzy becoming OSU's newest Pistol Pete. I just don't think Derick fits into/ wants to fit into the ATI mold.

[MoonFace]

7 hours ago, SassyPants said:

As long as Jeremy is participating in and  taking the money from the show, he is not independent, no matter how far away he resides from Duggarville.

The true mark will be the first couple from either family who steps away from the $how.

Maybe Bobblehead makes that a condition of 'giving away' his daughter - 

Yes, you can have my daughter in marriage as long as I have your signature on the contract saying that you will agree to be filmed when it is required. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

6 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Obviously speculation, but I don't think Derick will get involved in ATI and maybe not IBLP. Don't get me wrong- I think he is fully fundy, I just see him taking a different route, and I don't think Jill will win that battle. Derick is definitely more headstrong than Ben. He may homeschool, though I'm not too sure- I think he may realize that Jill homeschooling will not result in Izzy becoming OSU's newest Pistol Pete. I just don't think Derick fits into/ wants to fit into the ATI mold.

I get this vibe from him as well. I just can't see them having a dozen or even a 1/2 dozen kids.  I'm really interested to see how Jill's delivery goes this next time, if she has to have another C/section I see them stopping after 3 or 4 kids. if she is able to have him vaginally I can see 4 or 5 but I don't see them having more than 4 or 5 kids.  I get the impression that in a year or so Derick will be over the show, over Boob and have a real job, I can see him wanting his boys to go to christian private school and if they have girls them to hopefully. I think he realizes Jill isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and her homeschooling isn't the best idea 

[Dandruff]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I just don't think Derick fits into/ wants to fit into the ATI mold.

He doesn't seem to fit the mold, and I wonder whether it's a difference between wanting to follow Jesus vs. be Jesus.  I think even the ATI crowd would suspect he's nuts were he to show up for a conference. 

I don't consider him a leader though.  My impression is that he sold his soul to Jim Bob, the deal was sealed with Jill, he's realized that life as he knew it is over, and he's not too happy.  I believe he's trying to make the best of things and present himself in an insightful/inspiring way, but it seems to be going over like a lead balloon lately.

[buggers]

I live in Austin, and Derrick reminds me so much of the hippie Christians here. Super into Jesus, not that into education, but pretty chill. While he's definitely a fundie, I can see them doing natural family planning and not having a ton of children. He wears the pants in that relationship and JIll will go along with whatever he feels "called to" whether that is twenty children or two. Jessa and Bin are the only ones I see having buckets of children. It might be hopeful thinking, but I can see Jeremy being okay with condoms or some sort of birth control. 

[calimojo]

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I get this vibe from him as well. I just can't see them having a dozen or even a 1/2 dozen kids.  I'm really interested to see how Jill's delivery goes this next time, if she has to have another C/section I see them stopping after 3 or 4 kids. if she is able to have him vaginally I can see 4 or 5 but I don't see them having more than 4 or 5 kids.  I get the impression that in a year or so Derick will be over the show, over Boob and have a real job, I can see him wanting his boys to go to christian private school and if they have girls them to hopefully. I think he realizes Jill isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and her homeschooling isn't the best idea 

I agree, except I don't see Derick getting a job.  I think he will find a way to live off of donations from a half-assed ministry.  I think Derick has wanderlust.  And, he expresses it through his interest in being missionary.  He seems  like he would be content living off grid in various places around the world with a misguided sense of being useful or savior complex.  I think, based on Jill's positive reaction to Nepal,  that he found a kindred spirit in Jill and that they would live a somewhat nomadic existence together, supported by JB and the duggar machine.  Then the scandals broke out and the prospect of endless  Duggar dollars was less certain. 

 

I agree also with what many have said that Jill looks unhappy.  And Izzy is a handful.  I don't support blanket training, of course, but he definitely seems to be a busy and headstrong toddler.  Jill's reaction to him after pushing Meredith was pathetic.  My child would have been out of that li'l tykes car immediately and sitting out of play for a few minutes.  Yes,  toddlers are bratty and selfish,  that is normal, but parenting is to set limits, remove them from situations when they have shown aggression or behaved selfishly.  Even at Izzy's age, he can make the connection between cause and effect.  i.e., I push my cousin, I don't get to play with the car.  No need for harsh punishment, but limits are needed.  I just don't see Jill effectively parenting him. and then they do something stupid like try  to force a music lesson on him, which is completely inappropriate for his age.  (I think very young children can have some structure music lessons but what they were shown doing was stupid.  Enroll him in a Kindermusic class or something similar). 

 

Derick's thinness may be a psych thing.  He may be failing under the pressure of living a public life and having people judge him on social media, coming to the realization that his wife isn't cut out for the life he wants, and that she is functionally useless in many ways.   And, I think his extreme appearance is a subtle fuck you to JB.  Remember JB recruited Derick for Jill.  And sold Derick a bill of goods with promises of a fairly lucrative lifestyle by being associated with the duggar brand.  I don't think Derick was ready for the level of dysfunction he was walking into, and remember,  he came to that dysfunction at a vulnerable time in his life.  His dad had died suddenly, his mom remarried, and then got sick all in the course of a few years.  It seems like he isn't close to the stepdad, so that is more stress. 

 

I think as a lonely guy in Nepal,  he saw JB as a father figure when they were prayer partners.  And as a lonely boy he was open to JB having a stable of attractive young women to choose from.  And there was fame and Money to fund his world travels.  That is pretty heady stuff for a young man, who likely was always a bit of an odd ball. 

[buggers]

4 hours ago, calimojo said:

I think as a lonely guy in Nepal,  he saw JB as a father figure when they were prayer partners.  And as a lonely boy he was open to JB having a stable of attractive young women to choose from.  And there was fame and Money to fund his world travels.  That is pretty heady stuff for a young man, who likely was always a bit of an odd ball. 

This this this. I totally agree. People seem to ascribe a sort of villainy to Derrick's entrance into the Duggar clan, but I don't really see it like that. He was lonely and religious. He found a prayer partner in Boob - and it's important to note that it really might not have been in the interest in a wife yet. At that time, the duggars were the creme of the crop as far as public christians went, and it makes sense for a local christian boy to reach out to a "celebrity" christian for a prayer partner. I was raised in the church, and I saw many young christians reaching out to "celebrity" christians for prayers and guidance. Jill was bred to be agreeable, and so she was everything Derrick wanted. 

I think Derrick's hippie thing is a bit of a rebellion towards the oppressive duggars, and also a little bit of him finding himself. Again, he's young. Mid-twenties is when people try out new versions of themselves: hipster, frat boy, etc.

I worry about Jill as a functioning human being sometimes, but at least her and Derrick do seem to be in love. I don't always like the things Derrick says or the beliefs the clan has in general, but at the very least... I do think their relationship seems genuine. 

I really wish that someone who went to college with Derrick could speak out about what he was like then. I think that would answer a lot of questions.... Was he ever a mainstream christian? Always a fundie? Did he go to parties or hang out in non religious settings?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, calimojo said:

I agree, except I don't see Derick getting a job.  I think he will find a way to live off of donations from a half-assed ministry.  I think Derick has wanderlust.  And, he expresses it through his interest in being missionary.  He seems  like he would be content living off grid in various places around the world with a misguided sense of being useful or savior complex.  I think, based on Jill's positive reaction to Nepal,  that he found a kindred spirit in Jill and that they would live a somewhat nomadic existence together, supported by JB and the duggar machine.  Then the scandals broke out and the prospect of endless  Duggar dollars was less certain. 

 

I agree also with what many have said that Jill looks unhappy.  And Izzy is a handful.  I don't support blanket training, of course, but he definitely seems to be a busy and headstrong toddler.  Jill's reaction to him after pushing Meredith was pathetic.  My child would have been out of that li'l tykes car immediately and sitting out of play for a few minutes.  Yes,  toddlers are bratty and selfish,  that is normal, but parenting is to set limits, remove them from situations when they have shown aggression or behaved selfishly.  Even at Izzy's age, he can make the connection between cause and effect.  i.e., I push my cousin, I don't get to play with the car.  No need for harsh punishment, but limits are needed.  I just don't see Jill effectively parenting him. and then they do something stupid like try  to force a music lesson on him, which is completely inappropriate for his age.  (I think very young children can have some structure music lessons but what they were shown doing was stupid.  Enroll him in a Kindermusic class or something similar). 

 

Derick's thinness may be a psych thing.  He may be failing under the pressure of living a public life and having people judge him on social media, coming to the realization that his wife isn't cut out for the life he wants, and that she is functionally useless in many ways.   And, I think his extreme appearance is a subtle fuck you to JB.  Remember JB recruited Derick for Jill.  And sold Derick a bill of goods with promises of a fairly lucrative lifestyle by being associated with the duggar brand.  I don't think Derick was ready for the level of dysfunction he was walking into, and remember,  he came to that dysfunction at a vulnerable time in his life.  His dad had died suddenly, his mom remarried, and then got sick all in the course of a few years.  It seems like he isn't close to the stepdad, so that is more stress. 

 

I think as a lonely guy in Nepal,  he saw JB as a father figure when they were prayer partners.  And as a lonely boy he was open to JB having a stable of attractive young women to choose from.  And there was fame and Money to fund his world travels.  That is pretty heady stuff for a young man, who likely was always a bit of an odd ball. 

I think if Derick could stand up to Jill and say "I am the man and we are going to live, where ever" and then said no more TV show, no more of your siblings and parents coming over every other week we are going to take our little family of 4 and do what ever, Jill would adapt, I think they both need to get away from the hyped up fear of scary brown people everywhere, get in with a REAL mission group and Jill is allowed to work with local midwives and REAL nurses she is trained enough to listen to heart beats and do blood pressure checks and assist someone better trained to deliver a baby. I think if she had something to do besides stare at Izzy all day she might enjoy life and being an adult and away from her controlling father. She's young enough still and still has a resaonable number of kids that they can be a normal fundy/fundy light family. 

I agree with your last paragraph, Derick reminds me of a young seminary student that was interning at our church 21 years ago, he had just finished at seminary school. He joined shortly after his father had died, he had been an atheist prior to his father's death, and after he met a pastor that brought him to the Lord and all that testimony stuff that you hear from the lost turned saved folks.  He left for a mission trip shorty after hubby and I married. About 5 years after we married we ran into him and a group of friends standing in line for a movie.  He was an atheist again and said how his trip into biblical insanity as he called it was how he dealt with his fathers passing he felt guilty because he & his father always fought over his atheism.  I think Derick's decent hardcore fundydum could be a reaction to losing his father & almost losing his mother, his own health issues, getting married to a stranger having a kid right away, it was a lot to deal with at a transitional age for him and he clung to the one that wouldn't go away God. I think as he gets older and grows as a parent I can see his grip on his crazy hard core fundy thoughts waning especially if he can get away from Jill's family, which is why Boob holds onto them so tightly. 

 

 

[calimojo]

I think Derick has a love hate relationship with the Duggar cult.  On the one hand, he relies on it to fund his future and on the other hand, I think he hates the controlling aspects and I think he doesn't like the influence the family has on his wife.    To me,  his appearance is a passive aggressive response (not his thinness, but his hair, and general disheveled appearance) to JB and M and possibly also to the critics he has on Social Media.  Even in his talking heads, there are subtle passive aggressive snarks, imo that the rest of the clan are too stupid to really get. 

 

I imagine that most of the Duggars, besides Jill, think Derick is odd.  Some may secretly admire his resistance to fitting fully into the mold,  but that would only be if we assume that some among them are actually deep thinkers and we have absolutely no evidence of this.   

 

And, Derick hasn't really won over the fan base either.  There are probably a few very hardcore who seem to support him out of a weird loyalty to Jill,  but I don't really think they a true fans of Derick.  We aren't seeing Derick and Jill making separate public appearances like we have with Jessa and more recently with Ben. 

 

I can't help but wonder if JB isn't secretly a bit disappointed with how this marriage has turned out so far.  There isn't all that much interest in Derick other than wondering why he looks so bad, and even Jill seems to be falling out of favor.  She doesn't have the same pull that Jessa does,  She doesn't evoke sympathy like Jana does.

 

Now,  On to Jeremy and Jinger.  I have to say Jeremy is playing this all pretty strategically.  He seems to be following the strategy of "Leave them wanting more".  Or, in more modern terms,  he is breadcrumbing the fan base.

I am not convinced that they are really separating from the clan, just yet.  I think their lack of presence on social media is really a way to drum up more interest for now.  I see lots of comments on their fan pages wondering what Jinger and Jeremy are up to.  I think they are playing this intentionally, and there will then be a reveal that they have been filmed during the move and transition to Laredo.    Maybe Jeremy is angling for a spin-off of sorts. 

I hope I am wrong, and that he really is helping Jinger separate from the clan to a degree.  And I hope that I am wrong and that they really do want a more private lifestyle, similar perhaps to Allie Bates.  Appear here and there, to augment their income and keep enough interest going that there is an open door for more presence in the cult should they want that or need it when Jeremy's little church salary fails to support Jinger's thrift store addiction.

 

PS.  Forgive my grammar.  Having some issues with typing today from a minor hand injury and too lazy to go back and fix it.  But hopefully my comments make sense

[Coconut Flan]

Just a reminder folks, but if you're going to go to the trouble to bold part of a quote, just snip the quote to the bold part, please. 

[BadMurphy]

14 hours ago, calimojo said:

 

I agree also with what many have said that Jill looks unhappy.  And Izzy is a handful.  I don't support blanket training, of course, but he definitely seems to be a busy and headstrong toddler.  Jill's reaction to him after pushing Meredith was pathetic.  My child would have been out of that li'l tykes car immediately and sitting out of play for a few minutes.  Yes,  toddlers are bratty and selfish,  that is normal, but parenting is to set limits, remove them from situations when they have shown aggression or behaved selfishly.  Even at Izzy's age, he can make the connection between cause and effect.  i.e., I push my cousin, I don't get to play with the car.  No need for harsh punishment, but limits are needed.  I just don't see Jill effectively parenting him. and then they do something stupid like try  to force a music lesson on him, which is completely inappropriate for his age.  

That was at the romper room place right? Was Anna better with her own kids? I didn't watch the whole episode

[calimojo]

She seemed fine with her kids.  She did say she felt overwhelmed at times, and wondered if she was a good mom.  Which is actually a pretty honest statement.  All moms wonder that at times, so to hear Anna say that rather than some bullshit about God giving her strength to handle all of the blessings she has been given, yada yada yada not bad.

 

 

[choralcrusader8613]

I saw a recap of it somewhere else, and to see Anna say, "I feel like a good mom at naptime" made me feel bad for her. I hope that was just a joke that kinda fell flat. I'm glad she's not acting like a Michelle clone in that way, though.

[Lizzybet]

This is probably a ridiculous question, but I keep hearing the term 'prayer partner' and I don't know what that means. Is it  just two or more people who pray together?

How does that become a separate, specific relationship? Is it exclusive to fundamentalists?

[DugFan]

So ABC just had this story on the most-searched recipe, by state, for Super Bowl Sunday.  And Oregon's is... tater tot casserole.  And when you click the link in the story it actually links directly to the DUGGAR's recipe!  OK, Oregon FJers... explain this craziness.

 

https://gma.yahoo.com/top-super-bowl-sunday-dishes-most-searched-recipes-141903336--abc-news-topstories.html#

[choralcrusader8613]

Just now, Lizzybet said:

This is probably a ridiculous question, but I keep hearing the term 'prayer partner' and I don't know what that means. Is it  just two or more people who pray together?

How does that become a separate, specific relationship? Is it exclusive to fundamentalists?

Prayer partner is someone who prays for you for a specific situation. For example, Derick probably asked JB to be his prayer partner while he was over in Nepal, and JB probably would be praying that Derick's mission work wouldn't fall on deaf ears, that people would believe in Jesus because of him, etc. Derick was shown on the show giving JB an update on how things were going in his mission work before he and Jll were officially courting (we didn't actually hear how things were going, but let's elide that part of it).

2 minutes ago, DugFan said:

So ABC just had this story on the most-searched recipe, by state, for Super Bowl Sunday.  And Oregon's is... tater tot casserole.

I'm surprised anyone does casseroles at Super Bowl Sunday. I just do finger food.

[SassyPants]

The best thing that could happen to all these Duggars is for the show to end and for the 2nd generation to be forced to LEAVE AND CLEAVE!

[Purrl]

I wonder where Joy & her brother are staying while they are in DC? 

[Coconut Flan]

Wasn't that Little Rock?

[Purrl]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Wasn't that Little Rock?

Oh maybe. I'm geographically challenged - is that close enough to stay at home?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

I saw a recap of it somewhere else, and to see Anna say, "I feel like a good mom at naptime" made me feel bad for her. I hope that was just a joke that kinda fell flat. I'm glad she's not acting like a Michelle clone in that way, though.

I know exactly what she means she feels like a good mom at nap time because no one is crying no one is fighting no one is making a mess, and they look like angels when they sleep, so you can say look they are perfect, I'm a great mom. 

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, Purrl said:

Oh maybe. I'm geographically challenged - is that close enough to stay at home?

Not really, Little Rock is about 200 miles/3 hour drive from Tontitown.

[BabyBottlePop]

Not sure what thread to put this on cause I feel any of the Duggar threads would work. They have nothing else to talk about!! And never will.

[MamaJunebug]

22 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

I saw a recap of it somewhere else, and to see Anna say, "I feel like a good mom at naptime" made me feel bad for her. I hope that was just a joke that kinda fell flat. I'm glad she's not acting like a Michelle clone in that way, though.

This reminded me of one of my favorite people -- a Latin-rite Roman Catholic who had 8 kids within 13 years (1 set of twins).  Sassy and more than occasionally potty-mouthed, a very real, no-pretenses woman. She once said, "Thank God for naps. I wake up and I look at my children and say, 'Oh yeah, I *do* love you!'"

i bet that's what Jill was going for. 

[calimojo]

1 hour ago, BabyBottlePop said:

Not sure what thread to put this on cause I feel any of the Duggar threads would work. They have nothing else to talk about!! And never will.

I saw this and thought the same thing.  But wow, seeing the picture blown up like this is interesting to me.  Jill looks drawn and dead in the eyes, Jessa looks pretty but older than her years, Joy looks pretty,  Jana looks over it and Jinger looks better without the heavy eye liner.  But what really stands out, is that Jessa is dead center.  It is clear to me that for the purposes of carrying the torch of the duggar machine,  it is Jessa who is seen as the lead.  Which is unfortunate given she isn't very interesting.  It does remind me of the Kardashians, in that Kim was the main one, but she has no real personality,  so they have to bring in the others, and then manufacture drama, etc to keep it going. 

 

Jessa just doesn't hold my interest and her fake laugh drives me nuts.  Her baby is adorable, and I think she is at her best when she is shown in some unguarded moments with him, but other than that she is dull as dirt. 

 

Ben wants to be interesting.  I think he is bored with Jessa.  He was blinded by her beauty and his own normal teenaged hormones.  But he is not going to be content with Jessa and her narrow view of life.  Ben is seeking more knowledge and more experiences.  He is not exactly interesting on his own, but he at least has interest in things outside of the confines of the clan.