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Duggars by the Dozen, Parts 25- More threads than Duggars


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Bit unrelated to the thread at hand, but I really have to hand it to Krista, who's a friend of Jinger's (insta: kristaann_vt). She was at the NYC Women's March and stated that she was marching BECAUSE

Fruend, don't be hard on her. It took me decades to learn how to play it smart and get the he-- away from a verbally abusive control freak. And I had a good job and a college degree and had not been r

I saw that & was stunned. But I do know a few pro-life people, but they are truly pro-life, they care about babies after they are born, they want them to have food, and a home and an education. Th

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mizandry
59 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Pro-life more like pro-fetus and then after birth we don't give a damn. 

"Look at all our blessings! God only gives you what you can handle! ... Here Jana."

 

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backyard sylph
10 minutes ago, mizandry said:

"Look at all our blessings! God only gives you what you can handle! ... Here Jana."

 

That's why Jana was the first girl, early on, silly. God gave her to them to handle the rest. :-)

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SamiKatz
2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Fruend, don't be hard on her. It took me decades to learn how to play it smart and get the he-- away from a verbally abusive control freak. And I had a good job and a college degree and had not been raised to depend on anyone, least of all a mere man. 

I don't think it's a matter of dumb vs. smart as much as an almost total lack of self-confidence and years of being told you CAN'T. 

My years began when I married; Anna's began the moment she was born female. 

 

I would like this twice if I could.

Anna is a victim - of being born female into a cult that said her value as such was in bearing children for her husband, in being submissive to first her father, then her husband, of being her husband's chattel.  Of never being exposed to an outside world that would show her there are other options and avenues available to her.

It would be wonderful though if at some point, she (or any other woman raised in this cult) woke up one morning and said "Hell no".  I'd be really interested in hearing more about that from the women in this forum who did do that.

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Carm_88
2 hours ago, mizandry said:

"Look at all our blessings! God only gives you what you can handle! ... Here Jana."

 

The episode where they are in the airport and Jackson got lost. When he was found he ran straight to Jana for comfort, he didn't even think about running to Michelle or JB. Yeah, that's the way to raise your children. 

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wikinggirl

I tend to like Krista, but this was a little too much for me. 

From the comments:

Quote

I am perfectly ok and so is the child i didnt have. Making the choice to have an abortion is not one that a woman comes to likely. I went back and forth with my choice but at the end of the day I had to think of what was best for me. Yes its our body's and we have every right to say what happens to it not man or government or Bible pushing crazies. No my soul will not go to hell for having an abortion and God loves me always..

Krista's reply:

Quote

first, thanks for commenting. I know it can be scary to comment on a post when you have a completely different opinion than the author (at least it is for me!). And secondly, I'm sorry for whatever made you feel like you had to make that choice. I don't think it's a choice that any woman wants to make, and I think all women can work together to attack the reason WHY women get abortions. I know the internet is far from being the same as face to face, but can you really tell me that my mom should have had the right to end my life? That you're okay if I never existed? I'm sure that if I had been killed as a young child that would have bothered you, so can you help me understand why me never being born is okay but if the same thing had been done to me after I took a natural breath that wouldn't have been okay? I'm not asking to fight or belittle, but I'm genuinely interested in your thought and justification process.

I almost understand where she is coming from, but not really. Like the poster said, no one takes lightly on abortion,  but it isn't about not wanting Krista to be alive, but to see that a baby is not the right thing right now. 

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Carm_88

Plenty of people can think that. I know I can, my Mom could have aborted me but she chose not to. If she had, well then I would know nothing about it, I wouldn't have existed. No one pushes a woman towards abortion, if that is the best choice for her then it is. You don't go to Planned Parenthood and have people tell you that you need an abortion. They are supportive and tell you the choices that you have. Which is what many women need, to know that there are choices and that they don't have to choose to keep the baby because their mother or grandmother did. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion, it's letting women know that their bodies are their own and that they can make whatever choice is best for them.

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FleeJanaFree

"As I heard various woman chant "her body her choice" yesterday, I realized that had my mom come to them 23 years ago and expressed her fears and suggested she wanted an abortion, these woman would not only have encouraged her but driven her to a clinic to get rid of me."

 

i really don't  understand why  krista said this,  when just the other day she said she had never met a prochoicer that WANTED an abortion, just the choice. Krista, having a child's is your choice, who the fuck would tell you to get an abortion only because they're pro Choice? That is ridiculous. It truly is. I decide for me. You decide for you. That's the choice. Now if you had decided on your own, and then needs help, yes I would drive you and support you in your time of need. 

 

Krista, if you read here, I really do respect you. I just don't understand some things you say. I love that's you're open to a discussion and are respectful.

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NakedKnees
2 hours ago, wikinggirl said:
*snip*

I almost understand where she is coming from, but not really. Like the poster said, no one takes lightly on abortion,  but it isn't about not wanting Krista to be alive, but to see that a baby is not the right thing right now. 

I don't have that many pro-life friends, but several of them do seem to agree with Krista's perspective on this (many, not all, of my adopted friends do). My whole thing is that, on a spiritual/philosophical level... it's inconsequential whether you had been aborted or not. Your entire perspective wouldn't exist to be happy or sad or anything about it.

That said, I would never say that to someone like Krista's face if they were daring me to do so in the way that she seems to be doing on this post. This isn't because I don't think it's true, or because I suddenly realize it's an unethical, but because I don't share her experience and think it's a bit condescending to explain her own experience to her. I don't think she's witnessed this as a "pro-choice" perspective.

I do know that my mom and grandmother both had abortions before me (and my mom, respectively) were born. The odds of me and my sibling existing are extemely slim if it wasn't for those abortions. But I'm not going to dare anyone to try to hurt me about it!

Krista- if you read this, I love that you marched on Saturday :my_biggrin: Keep working hard and being awesome!

Edited by NakedKnees
riffle and march comment
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Iamtheway
On 2017-01-21 at 1:46 AM, calimojo said:

Remember that terrible episode where Josh and Anna go on a vacation, and Josh ended up giving away that giant stuffed bear to the that woman that ran some sort of a pregnancy half way house?  I think that was the same episode where Sierra had the kids paint the storks. 

How is this a show that people watch? 

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FleeJanaFree

Yes I remember being so annoyed with that episode. What good does a gigantic stuffed animal do, exactly? Money for health services, referrals to adoption agencies, a real discussion about the struggles she will face as a single mom, those were things that would have been helpful. 

 

Im trying to remember, wasn't the bear free to Josh anyway?

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Bad Wolf
Just now, FleeJanaFree said:

Yes I remember being so annoyed with that episode. What good does a gigantic stuffed animal do, exactly? Money for health services, referrals to adoption agencies, a real discussion about the struggles she will face as a single mom, those were things that would have been helpful. 

 

Im trying to remember, wasn't the bear free to Josh anyway?

I think he won it at a carnival.

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FleeJanaFree

Oh yeah. He 'donated' it, in other words didn't want to pay the airline charge for the inconvenience of keeping the piece of crap.

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onekidanddone
1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think he won it at a carnival.

Those carnival toys are crap.  He couldn't have opened his wallet and donated some diapers?  I'd call  him pond scum, but he is not that high on the food chain.

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2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Those carnival toys are crap.  He couldn't have opened his wallet and donated some diapers?  I'd call  him pond scum, but he is not that high on the food chain.

Why donate money to needy children when you can spend it on an Ashley Madison account?

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Buzzard
42 minutes ago, Archer said:

Why donate money to needy children when you can spend it on an Ashley Madison account?

I vaguely recall some instagram pics that popped up shortly after the episode aired with Joshly giving them a check.  I'm sure it was a "token" donation, though.

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mizandry

All of Krista's typical, "I'm special because I could have been aborted" hem-hawing just kills me. The fucking entitlement folks have to beginning life angers me, honestly, and to me it highlights that they really don't understand just what it means to actually believe that life is a ~precious blessing~. The complete lack of sympathy and regard for her mother's life and choices also angers me -- like she's fucking offended that there are women who would have helped her mom get an abortion IF SHE WANTED ONE and needed help to get to the clinic where she might be harassed by "pro life" protesters? This argument is fucking selfish and delusional... and frankly, disrespectful as hell to her mother and all the mothers who have made the choice to continue their pregnancies when abortion seemed like (and often would have been) a damn good option. She didn't owe Krista life.

Like... my mom had an abortion before and after me. I'm in a very, very similar boat with the whole, "I could have been aborted" storyline. My mom gave birth to me when she was 24, unemployed, and living with a couple -- the husband of whom forced her to have sex with him or else she would be on the streets. This was after she'd stopped doing hard drugs and was struggling to find gainful employment, because she'd gotten into some really toxic crowds to try and deal with the pain of having the piece of shit parents she had - particularly her child molesting, rapist, animal abusing father. My grandmother was the breadwinner of the family, sometimes supporting four children of her own just as soon as she'd gotten done raising her 8 siblings for her own mother, who completely checked out of her parenting duties when my grandma was a teenager (because her father had left her mom for another woman; my grandma's biggest memories of her dad are of him driving her and a young brother out to a woman's house every other day and leaving them in the car for at least an hour so he could sleep with her). I honestly think that, by the time she had to raise her own children, she was so worn out from her EIGHT SIBLINGS that she just gave less of a fuck about parenting over the years and just really dropped the ball for her own daughters. It might explain some of the cruel, disgusting things she said and did to my mom and aunts as teenagers, her selfishness towards them particularly as they got older and needed guidance, and her general lack of action towards my grandfather's worthless existence and child-molesting ways... I don't know. 

BUT ANYWAYS, all this to say that my family's background is laden with abuse and women bearing the brunt of that their whole lives. Given all that I know and understand about my family now, given all that I've seen and been subjected to because they still live in their trauma, I honestly wish that my mom had chosen abortion for her pregnancy with me. Not because I hate myself, or something, but because I love her enough to see that having me necessarily meant giving up on a lot in her life, including the headspace to just care about herself for awhile when she never really got to do that before choosing parenthood. I would much rather exist knowing that the people who brought me into this world were able to do so with a sense that it would actually BE a positive addition to their lives and that they'd be ready to raise me. I do believe my mom feels I was a positive addition, so I respect her choice to birth me, but... if I were in her shoes? I might not have done the same, and that's okay. I should be able to have a support network of people who will stand by me in that choice, not go, "Well, you *CAN* have an abortion, but I'm not going to help you get it because [some shit about morals]." It sounds like that's what she wanted for her mother in this hypothetical situation of her choosing abortion. The false victimhood from these pro-lifers over the idea that they COULD have been aborted is repulsive, as if we're supposed to feel bad for them or be horrified by it or something. And it's always stood out to me that white cis men are the ones who give the biggest crocodile tears about their sense of injustice over their mom's ability to choose to let them develop into a baby or not. So much entitlement, so much ignorance... 
 

11 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

The episode where they are in the airport and Jackson got lost. When he was found he ran straight to Jana for comfort, he didn't even think about running to Michelle or JB. Yeah, that's the way to raise your children. 

This makes me want to cry, honestly. It breaks my heart that this is what these children get to have as their Parent dynamic... just chaos and confusion and ridiculously unreasonable child labor dressed up as "Godliness" and "Family Values" ... How the hell could these two shitbags have all these children and not want to love them individually, to invest more time in them than they ever will or do? My word. They are so obviously disconnected from their offspring, particularly the younger ones, and when I look at their kids, I'm just like, "Why? Why do they keep doing this? I would do SO MUCH to try and raise that particular child, or any of their existing children, well."

They're not even trying. They've put that responsibility onto Jana and don't even take a real interest in the personalities and opinions of their children. They're missing out and stunting them all as a result. I can't even begin to process the burden Jana is dealing with in being head sister mom. She didn't choose to have all these kids, she didn't choose to be born into this family. Everything about her life has been and will be decided by her parents, unless she manages to get the fuck out of there at some point and successfully keep away.

Edited by mizandry
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Carm_88

Jana's smirk tonight when they asked her if she had any child rearing tips. I felt for her because I feel that she has been raising her parents kids for so long, that she doesn't struggle to think of 4 kids. 

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RosyDaisy

If my friend was faced with an unplanned pregnancy, my job is not to sway her in any direction. I will support and respect her choice, if that means driving her to an abortion clinic or shopping for baby clothes. Her body, her choice. Nobody should have a say except the woman who has to make the choice.

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Jiraffe

Gah. I don't know why she thinks it's so black and white for pro-choice people. When I realized I was preggers, I honestly didn't know anyone who wasn't pro-choice. Due to abuse, I would've been a single mom. No choice at all on that matter, and I didn't really have a relationship with my family then either so there would've been no other family to help raise it. Everyone I told, asked me what I wanted to do. Although I'm pro-choice, my choice was to keep it. Everyone I know was supportive and nobody tried to pressure me or change my mind. Because pro-choice means choosing life sometimes, too!

Incidentally, had I told the dad, and had it been a girl, he would have tried to force me to abort it. He only wanted a boy, he had said that many times. It's why I left when I left; I knew I was preggo and didn't want him having any say. You never, ever know what caused someone's situation.  Nobody has the right to judge, and I just so wish these fundies would realize this. I do wish I had insta so I could respond to Krista; she does seem a bit more open to dialogue than others.

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ophelia
17 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

That's why Jana was the first girl, early on, silly. God gave her to them to handle the rest. :-)

The sad thing is that they really believe it is that way. Run, Jana!! RUN!!!

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

If my friend was faced with an unplanned pregnancy, my job is not to sway her in any direction. I will support and respect her choice, if that means driving her to an abortion clinic or shopping for baby clothes. Her body, her choice. Nobody should have a say except the woman who has to make the choice.

AMEN!

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front hugs > duggs

I wasn't as a baby in that situation, but my parents seriously considered aborting my brother, as so far as they drove to the place and just couldn't go through with it. My mom was 34 with a 10 year old difficult child, and my dad was 24, and they had only been dating a short time. They certainly never regretted the decision to keep my brother. But I guess a year after my brother was born, my mom got pregnant again and they did abort that baby. My mom was never a particularly strong mother and never really fully embraced motherhood because she was honestly quite selfish, and my dad didn't want to be 26 with an 11 year old still difficult step daughter, a 1 year old, and a newborn. 

I'm sure both times were difficult decisions for my parents. But life does go on, and they never seemed to dwell on the fact. I didn't even know until I was probably 16, about 20 years after they did it. I certainly don't live my life thinking "what if I had another sibling?". 

I am seriously pro-choice. It's up to each individual/couple to decide what is best for them. I'm honestly not sure if I'd be able to go through with it either, like my parents. But that would still be my/husband's choice. And I do agree with some other posters who have said that better sex ed and more readily available condoms for teenagers and access to birth control would go along way. 

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Scrabblemaster

Soooooo... This debate about alternative facts...I am not sure if i got it right. Hope the following is not too mean. 

3 alternative facts about the Duggars:

1. Michelle's hair looks gorgeous, healthy and wonderful. 

2. They eat healthy food on real dishes and nobody ever licked food before putting it on pizzas. 

3. Their children have the possibility to study everything they want and choose their own way of life and their parents will accept them and be proud of them. 

 

 

Edited by Scrabblemaster
Weird typo
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onekidanddone
4 hours ago, Scrabblemaster said:

Soooooo... This debate about alternative facts...I am not sure if i got it right. Hope the following is not too mean. 

3 alternative facts about the Duggars:

1. Michelle's hair looks gorgeous, healthy and wonderful. 

2. They eat healthy food on real dishes and nobody ever licked food before putting it on pizzas. 

3. Their children have the possibility to study everything they want and choose their own way of life and their parents will accept them and be proud of them. 

 

 

4. They have a rainbow flag flying in their yard, and fully support marriage equity. 

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