The Handmaid's Tale on Hulu

[adidas]

I keep changing my mind about whether Waterford set up Nick and June.

The guardians were pretty insistent that they needed to leave NOW and I think it’s because they knew there were timed patrols. I’m not great with US geography but I imagine that they’re close(ish)? to the Canadian border, which could mean that it’s more heavily patrolled and monitored. 

But the whole ‘you deserve this’ was so creepy. 

I don’t think this needs to be spoilers but it discusses the end of the book. Skip the spoiler box if you don’t want to know what might happen.

Spoiler

Waterford has to die soon. At the end of the book in the historical notes it says he ‘met his end’ soon after the events in the book - he was accused of having liberal tendencies, having unauthorised library materials and of harbouring a subversive. 

 

[SilverBeach]

Waterford didn't set up Nick. It just that everything he does ends up fucked. He kissed June on the forehead when sending her off to meet Hannah. He really thinks he is redeeming himself for the rape. Besides, he doesn't operate in a vacuum, he would be accountable for losing a guardian and a preganant handmaid who was about to give birth. Stupid Fred, he should know that being that close to delivery, sending June hours away for any reason was too risky. 

June still hasn't learned not to take foolish risks. When the guardian said times up, she should have left. 

I saw the Israeli trailer last week and knew the pregnant rape scene was coming, but it was still powerful. Serena high tailed it out of there, she knew that shit was wrong. Fuck her hot and cold ass. And old wives tales notwithstanding, how could forceful rape be good for a woman about to give birth? 

People should stop giving Nick shit about his child bride. She invades his personal space, and he didn't ask for any of it. Perhaps he should act a little more like a true believer to protect himself, but having caught Eden kissing that asshole Isaac gives him some ammunition here. I knew when she offered him a strawberry (shouldn't a wife not flirt like that?) that they would be into each other.

Second time crying during thie series,  at the Hanna scene (first was the handmaid funeral). As the mom of a daughter, and our government's recent reprehensible treatment of children, it was just too much. Agnes, really? Gilead really is trying to turn back the clock with that ugly-ass name. No way Hannah won't be fucked up by all of this. 

Gilead is all bullshit, it's not about babies or procreation at all. Its about power and control.  Their sorry handmaid system, lack of belief in science, and restricted intercourse practically guarantees few pregnancies. Taking women who have been in the colonies for handmaids? What is the likelihood they can carry a pregnancy to term or have a healthy baby? I think Emily would try to abort oor even kill her baby before she would let it grow up in Giled. There were slave mothers who did just that. 

 

[adidas]

I just found out that the Israeli trailers are different - where can they be found?

[adidas]

I just found the episode 11 Israeli trailer. Wow.   I wish I’d known about them all along haha.

Anyone else wanting to watch it, go to HotVod on Facebook to see it. 

[Irishy]

I guess Hannah was renamed to Agnes because the children are given religious names. Only other one I can think of is baby Angela. Agnes is Latin for Lamb (of God - Agnes Dei)

[Irishy]

*Agnus

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, Irishy said:

I guess Hannah was renamed to Agnes because the children are given religious names. Only other one I can think of is baby Angela. Agnes is Latin for Lamb (of God - Agnes Dei)

So many nice names with religious meanings that aren't ugly ones. Tiffany means "appearance of God". No excuse for Agnes. Ugh.

And Hannah is a pretty darn religious name already, right out of the old testament no less! 

Edited June 23, 2018 by SilverBeach

[Hane]

@SilverBeach, I agree:  If Gilead were really about restoring the population, they wouldn’t be going about doing it in such a ridiculously inefficient way.  Men’s fertility would be tested, which is insanely easy to do. (My old ob-gyn told me, way back in the ‘70s, that he refused to start investigating a woman’s fertility issues until her husband had had at least one sperm count.) Women who agreed to become pregnant would be treated like queens and rock stars: they’d be given generous stipends, the best of living conditions, and opportunities to pursue their education or careers with support.  The privilege of parenthood wouldn’t be a perk of the ruling class alone.

One departure from the book doesn’t strike me as logical:  the fact that the Gilead of the series isn’t a white supremacist society. Institutionalized racism would be a logical outgrowth of Gilead’s sexism, classism, and fascism.  But to accomplish this, the series would have to go far beyond Offred’s limited view of life as depicted in the book, and depict a parallel narrative of what happened to the people of color who were transported out of Gilead and sequestered in their own territories. Maybe it’s telling that Waterford, who is pretty high up the food chain, has been assigned a blonde, blue-eyed Handmaid, who could conceivably bear a child that would look something like him and his wife. 

Still, I couldn’t help feeling great satisfaction when that black Commander, in S2 Ep 10, announced that HIS wife was pregnant and that THEY didn’t need no damn Handmaid.

[EmiGirl]

The thing is hannah is a religious name. Hannah was the mother of the prophet samuel.

[JillyO]

I think re-naming the children has more to do with stripping them of their old identities and trying to make them forget their lives "before" than it necessarily does with giving them more biblical names.

[Mama Mia]

Next season, I’m most interested in seeing how they keep the June / Waterford storyline going. To me, the interactions between those three - and particularly Serena and June - are the center of the show.  

But about episode 10 — Damn, so much subtlety and brutality all in one hour.

1- June’s comment when she thinks she’s in labor and walks into the Waterford’s ( Gorgeous!!) Bedroom - and says “ at least it’s the last time I’ll have to be on this bed “ ouccchhhhhh

2- The many parallel statements / feels with June trying to set things up for this baby, who she knows ahead of time she can’t keep, to feel loved - and cram every single thought / wish / advice for Hannah into 10 minutes. The clinging on to the two Martha’s for help....

3-Elizabeth Moss deserves ALL the awards ever just for the subtle facial expression changes in this episode. standing at the window looking happy rubbing her belly- then the change as She heard Aunt Lydia come in. The almost hopeful look when Serena called her in to talk- like maybe, just maybe she was going to let her stay until the baby was weaned. Then the horror and shock as she realized what was about to happen. Gutted.

4- And what about Serena?!? I rewatched the greenhouse scene -and obviously they both wanted to punish June - but it was Serena who came up with the rape. And who was most angry.  I also think she was getting off on the whole rape. It had a VERY bdsm vibe to me. And she seemed VERY into it. Mixed with shame, of course. But I think her shame wasn’t because she was hurting June, it was because she liked it. Fred seemed like he was getting off more on Serena’s reaction, than on the rape itself. I think that’s why he felt so guilty.

But I’ve heard other people read her expression as pure disgust ( kind of like that new baby shower game- with a bunch of women’s faces- and you try to guess if it’s porn or childbirth ) 

5. I struggled with Fred being so immediately harsh with June about her request to be in Hannah’s district. But then I realized it might be because he actually cares for June ( in his own demented, limited way, of course ) - and any reminder of her humanity, of being a person who had a life, upsets his worldview. As does the reminder that these women had children, that they kidnapped. 

6. Serena’s primary motivation, with everything, seems to be public embarrassment. When she was punished by Fred- she turned on June out of embarrassment- not because of the beating itself- which seem to be very proscribed, and in her case, rare. When the false labor threw off Serena’s Party - embarrassment- and the need to punish. Even before Gilead, it was her embarrassment at the reaction of the crowd at the college, more even the shooting- that set her on this extreme path. 

7- That scene with Hannah - such a good job,  and SO realistic. Sadly I’ve been at a few child reunification’s - heartbreaking - and just like that. I agree that obviously June should have immediately left - but not a time when a mother is acting rationally. And she didn’t even have warning it was coming in the first place. 

 

TLDR - Damn! Amazing

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Mama Mia

[CancerBomb]

If Nick was set up, I wonder if Eden's friendship with the new guardian could have prompted it? If Nick was out of the way he'd be free to marry Eden. Am I overthinking this?

[adidas]

@Mama Mia This is 100% speculation based on nothing but my own uneducated guesses ... but I think next season will be June trying to get her baby back off Serena (and Hannah back off the new family). I think June will get to Canada at the end of this season and the next series will focus on her fight to reclaim her children. That way June and the Waterfords  will still be interacting, though not side by side like they are at present.

[Mama Mia]

9 minutes ago, adidas said:

@Mama Mia This is 100% speculation based on nothing but my own uneducated guesses ... but I think next season will be June trying to get her baby back off Serena (and Hannah back off the new family). I think June will get to Canada at the end of this season and the next series will focus on her fight to reclaim her children. That way June and the Waterfords  will still be interacting, though not side by side like they are at present.

That would make a lot of sense ! And would be interesting to see how her relationship with Luke has changed, especially if Nick somehow makes it out too. 

Another thought I had - what if she somehow blackmails the Waterford’s into letting her stay after the birth? Endangering the baby with the unsanctioned “ceremony”? Or maybe Fred decides to keep her there to try for another - he seemed very jealous when the other commander was talking about taking June. And I wonder if part of the reason he was so angry at the suggestion that June be in the district with Hannah- is he didn’t want her gone. Jealousy  seems like a big motivator in his actions. Usually of power, but also of romance.

So many intriguing directions it could go! 

[SilverBeach]

On 6/23/2018 at 4:53 PM, Hane said:

But to accomplish this, the series would have to go far beyond Offred’s limited view of life as depicted in the book, and depict a parallel narrative of what happened to the people of color who were transported out of Gilead and sequestered in their own territories.

Like what was done to depict the colonies. The 1990 HMT movie did depict the "children of Ham" being taken away. I liked that movie, but I'm a Robert Duvall fan. He played the Waterford character. Note that Kate (the "June" character played by the late Natasha Richardson) did react strongly to ceremonial rape, unlike the lifeless depictiion in the Hulu series (except for episode 10). 

[SilverBeach]

Back to Ep. 10, I do wonder if Rita saw Eden and Isaac kissing and turned them in. They weren"t even trying to be discreet. She can't stand Eden all up in her kitchen and everything, taking the rare chocolate tokens. The nerve!

Edited June 27, 2018 by SilverBeach

[AlwaysExcited]

June must get to Canada in finale. Another season with her in Gilead would be boring and repetitive. And too painful, give her a break already. 

[freethemall]

@SilverBeach could you put your post under a spoiler or have a spoiler warning? I believe the mods said 2 days after the episode has aired, most of us will only be watching it tonight.

[SilverBeach]

Just now, freethemall said:

@SilverBeach could you put your post under a spoiler or have a spoiler warning? I believe the mods said 2 days after the episode has aired, most of us will only be watching it tonight.

I'm sure it's here, but I haven't seen any two-day admonition. I'll do you one better. I will create a thread for the latest episode by number. That way, discussion can happen unimpeded. Folks watch at all different times, can't possibly keep track of that. Hope it helps. I mst be weird because I love spoilers. 

[freethemall]

9 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I'm sure it's here, but I haven't seen any two-day admonition. I'll do you one better. I will create a thread for the latest episode by number. That way, discussion can happen unimpeded. Folks watch at all different times, can't possibly keep track of that. Hope it helps. I mst be weird because I love spoilers. 

I actually kind of like spoilers too, but I know a lot of people don't. I'm sure people will still use this as the main thread for show discussion, I kind of hate when there are a million threads on one topic (especially having individual threads for each boring Maxwell blog post).

Whether or not you make a new thread, you should put some kind of spoiler warning on your other one.

Edited June 27, 2018 by freethemall

[SilverBeach]

17 minutes ago, freethemall said:

I actually kind of like spoilers too, but I know a lot of people don't. I'm sure people will still use this as the main thread for show discussion, I kind of hate when there are a million threads on one topic (especially having individual threads for each boring Maxwell blog post).

Whether or not you make a new thread, you should put some kind of spoiler warning on your other one.

I am bad at adding spoilers, you can report the post you are talking about and ask a mod to do it.

Reddit keeps the episode threads separate, that's not bad policy. I like it. Lots of separate THT threads over there. We were actually encouraged to create more threads on FJ for Google purposes or something. I won't use this thread for any posts about ep. 11, 12, or 13 because I watch the episodes early (I'm really into THT) and don't enjoy censoring what I say. People who don't like spoilers should perhaps avoid the thread until they have seen the latest episode. Just a thought.

 

I have created the thread to discuss Season 2 Episode 11, Holly. 

I self-reported my posts commenting on Episode 11 and asked that they be moved to the new thread I just created.

Edited June 27, 2018 by SilverBeach

[Queen]

I just finished episode 11 of season 2 and went straight here hoping for discussion! No spoilers beyond S2EP6 in this post.

I love this show, even though it's too real sometimes. Like same-sex marriages not being accepted anymore, we've only had it for a year over here and if I've understood correctly equal marriage might be threatened in the US thanks to the centrist judge resigning from the Supreme Court. 

And underage brides being married off also exist today in many places in the world. I love that the show shows how gross and wrong these things are! Stoning, capital punishment, female genital mutilation, oppression of the opposition and a high control society is also everyday life in some places. Like I said, it's way too real. But also a very well made show! I keep thinking Elizabeth Moss should receive all the awards in the world for her role. It can't have been easy to shoot all that! Although in another Handmaid's Tale-thread here that she's a Scientologist made me disappointed. 

I also love how the tv show is - IMO - even more critical of religion than the book! Especially for an American show. It shows how misogynistic and backwards the Bible is and that we really don't want a society that's based on that book! Because it would be a freaking nightmare, even without the handmaids. I wonder if people living in theocracies, like Iran, have had any possibility to watch this show and what they think of it if they have. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Queen

[adidas]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:13 PM, adidas said:

@Mama Mia This is 100% speculation based on nothing but my own uneducated guesses ... but I think next season will be June trying to get her baby back off Serena (and Hannah back off the new family). I think June will get to Canada at the end of this season and the next series will focus on her fight to reclaim her children. That way June and the Waterfords  will still be interacting, though not side by side like they are at present.

Gahhhhhh I was so wrong!

[freethemall]

Ok so now I'm listening to HT podcasts and rewatching old episodes because I miss the show. The Mayday podcast (I recommend it) had an interview with Amanda Brugel who plays Rita, and there was a very interesting point that was brought up:

How do the Marthas cook without written recipes? They're generally not professional cooks in their previous lives, so how do they figure out baking fresh bread? And with that said, do they have to remove even the numbers from the stoves?

[Hane]

6 hours ago, freethemall said:

Ok so now I'm listening to HT podcasts and rewatching old episodes because I miss the show. The Mayday podcast (I recommend it) had an interview with Amanda Brugel who plays Rita, and there was a very interesting point that was brought up:

How do the Marthas cook without written recipes? They're generally not professional cooks in their previous lives, so how do they figure out baking fresh bread? And with that said, do they have to remove even the numbers from the stoves?

Coincidence: I thought of this very point when I saw SJ knitting and all the baby clothes she had made for Holly/Nicole. Unless you’re some kind of knitting genius like my mother, you need patterns! And, yes—recipes are vital for those learning to cook and bake. I’ve been baking from scratch for some fifty years, and do have several of my old favorites committed to memory, but even I need to consult recipes.