Girl Defined

[Lurky]

8 hours ago, Timetraveler said:

Why this whole idea that you know more/are more mature/more wise when you have found a partner? 

It's especially weird, because surely in the Fundy world, choosing the right partner is even more important than usual, as they have "no divorce" rules, and as a woman, you're expected to submit to him and rely on him in every way.  It's a logic fail to decide you're more wise AFTER you've made that decision, than before, when you actually do it!

[L1o2u3]

https://www.girldefined.com/how-to-discover-if-hes-the-one-you-should-marry 

And Bethany's talking about her failed courtship/relationship once again.

Edit: Apparantly it was her family that "encouraged" her to end it. 

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As things continued on, my family began to notice a lot of inconsistencies in my boyfriend’s life. They began to wonder if he was truly a great match for me.

Towards the end of the relationship, my entire family (every sibling and parent) were on the same page. After praying and observing, they all (at individual and different times) shared their concerns and advised me to end it. 

I don't really read their blog anymore because they always take about the same topics... Meh. I want to have their new book to read it and hate it  

 

They actually did a survey a few months ago on the topics they should cover in their relationship book. If I had known freejinger back then, I would have shared the link here.  I'm pretty sure they would have appreciated the suggestions. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by L1o2u3

[EmiGirl]

4 hours ago, Lurky said:

It's especially weird, because surely in the Fundy world, choosing the right partner is even more important than usual, as they have "no divorce" rules, and as a woman, you're expected to submit to him and rely on him in every way.  It's a logic fail to decide you're more wise AFTER you've made that decision, than before, when you actually do it!

I've seen many fundies say there's no such thing as the right person. All that matters is that they're a Christian and then the wife has to submit and become what the husband wants and all will be well.

[Lurky]

12 minutes ago, EmiGirl said:

I've seen many fundies say there's no such thing as the right person. All that matters is that they're a Christian and then the wife has to submit and become what the husband wants and all will be well.

I literally just shuddered when I read that!  THE HORROR!!!

[L1o2u3]

I've read articles like that, too. "It doesn't matter whom you marry, but why" or "Marriage isn't supposed to make you happy, but holy". 

I think the first one was by Matt Walsh, my favorite Catholic (eg. http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/matt-walsh-i-didnt-fall-in-love-with-my-wife/ and favorite meaning entertaining, not that I actually like him). An example for the second one can be found here: http://equippinggodlywomen.com/marriage/why-i-didnt-choose-a-marriage-that-would-make-me-happy/ There's even a whole book about that topic: https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Marriage-What-Designed-Happy/dp/0310337372/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6NBJQE6HXSAQX7Y06TAZ 

From the description: 

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Your marriage is more than a sacred covenant with another person. It is a spiritual discipline designed to help you know God better, trust him more fully, and love him more deeply.  What if God’s primary intent for your marriage isn’t to make you happy . . . but holy?

While I actually think that there isn't THE ONE and that you can't always be super happy all the time, I think they are taking this way too far. Just because there will never be the perfect partner doesn't mean that it doesn't matter who you marry. A strange attitude. 

[CyborgKin]

It doesn't matter who you marry... so long as they fit all of a few dozen specific criteria regarding doctrine, character, temperament, family background, and life goals.  

*sighs in resignation*

 

[louisa05]

11 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

It doesn't matter who you marry... so long as they fit all of a few dozen specific criteria regarding doctrine, character, temperament, family background, and life goals.  

*sighs in resignation*

 

And then you both conform to the prescribed gender roles once you are married. If you do all of that and are miserable, that is because marriage is supposed to be "hard work" and you are "becoming more Christ-like" because your spouse is "testing" you and it is all a big "sacrifice for the Lord". You will still love them in spite of it,  because love is a "choice". 

Can't tell you how many times I heard all of that preached in high school chapel when I taught at Christian school. Probably ten times a year in one way or another for six years. And don't you dare worry about being compatible; compatibility is a lie that the "secular culture" tells you to help "undermine" marriage. It just leads to divorce. 

Frankly, they generally made marriage sound like a life sentence to misery other than insisting that if you just remained super pure, you would have amazing sex forever and ever. You know, with this person that you might not even like or have much in common with who is busy making your life miserable everywhere but in the bedroom. 

As for that nonsense video linked above, I don't know very many women who got past 20 or so that were walking around with a "future husband" checklist. I don't think it is a coincidence that the ones that I know who were fall into two categories: 1--raised fundagelical or 2--still single in her 40s having never even had a relationship at all because no one matches up to the ridiculous detailed list.

I also don't know a single married person who wishes her husband were a better "spiritual leader for their home". And, in general, I am in circles of people who are church going. It occurs to me that I don't hang out with "married girls" or "single girls" as talked about in the video and never have. By the end of college, everyone I know considered themselves grown women, not "girls". So there is that. And I'm being a bit facetious, but not really. I think there is a different mindset and maturity level going on when you still consider yourself a "girl" at 28 or 30 as these two do. 

[smittykins]

9 hours ago, louisa05 said:

 And don't you dare worry about being compatible; compatibility is a lie that the "secular culture" tells you to help "undermine" marriage. It just leads to divorce. 

Besides, you have sex whenever your husband wants it.  Compatibile, schompatabile.

[CyborgKin]

Ugh, thinking though all the different things I've been taught about marriage, they're all so contradictory!

Edited July 1, 2017 by CyborgKin

[BackseatMom]

The internalized misogany coming out of some of these Fundy women's mouths kills me. I can't imagine being raised to think that I was automatically less than because of my vagina. But the worst part is when they feel the need to raise themselves up a half step (still below men, don't worry) by talking about how bad other women are. Their social circles and communities must be so judgemental and stifling.

[louisa05]

13 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Ugh, thinking though all the different things I've been taught about marriage, they're all so contradictory!

Now that I have been married for 8 years, I firmly believe there is not a formula for a perfect marriage. First of all, there is no such thing. 

I think there is a pretty simple formula for a relatively happy marriage: 

1-Marry someone you like and are friends with, that you like just being with. If you can't or don't want to do anything together with this person, then that is not the person you should marry. 

2-Once you do marry that person, be kind, helpful, respectful, loving and supportive to them (and none of those things is gender specific for the love of God--everyone needs to be treated with love and respect). In his homily at our wedding, our priest said there are three phrases that are key to a good marriage: "I love you", "I'm sorry" and "I forgive you". I would add "please" and "thank you". The last two keep you from taking each other for granted. We spend all day thanking each other in this house. He thanks me for making every meal I make. I thank him every time he takes the garbage out. It is just what we do. One of the most poignant things I learned after my dad died, following a nearly 3 year cancer fight, was when my mother told us while we were planning the funeral that while he was sick, dad thanked her for taking care of him every single night before they went to sleep. Even on the last night he could still speak and was at hospice. Relationship goals right there. 

From there you can work out the rest. And when working out the rest, remember that doing what works for you and your spouse is better than doing what works for some internet theologian or random person with a Bible and a mouth or the couple down the street or your parents or anyone else. And if that means throwing gender roles (she cooks and cleans, he mows the lawn or whatever...) out the window, toss them out. 

 

[L1o2u3]

Their newest post is called "The Greatest Calling of a Modern Christian Girl". Bethany shares the story of how she tried to convert an Au-Pair girl that was in the states for a year and how she almost didn't manage to "plant the seed of faith in her". Oh, and lots of questions!

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When you meet that new girl at school or at work, what will you do with the opportunity? 

Umm, be nice to her? 

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Will you build a friendship and lovingly bring up spiritual topics?

If she wants to be friends with me, I will "build a friendship". But "lovingly bring up spiritual topics"? I think I  have an idea how that would look and I don't think that's loving. 

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Will you care more about her eternal destination than looking cool in her eyes?

Or I don't care about both of these things and we can just hang out and get along? 

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Will you love her enough to share the best news in the entire world with her?

I will "love her enough" to accept her the way she is and no, I don't have a bad conscience because I don't constantly annoy her with Jesus-talk. That's not love. 

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Will you boldly and lovingly explain her current sinful condition and help her see her need for a Savior?

I fear that boldly and lovingly don't go together with telling her she is an evil sinner. So I might just tell her that I love her?

 

According to Bethany, I suck at being a Christian girl  

[Lurky]

On 01/07/2017 at 4:19 PM, BackseatMom said:

The internalized misogany coming out of some of these Fundy women's mouths kills me. I can't imagine being raised to think that I was automatically less than because of my vagina. But the worst part is when they feel the need to raise themselves up a half step (still below men, don't worry) by talking about how bad other women are. Their social circles and communities must be so judgemental and stifling.

Standing ovation! I want to like this 1000 times. They've internalised their misogyny so much that they only way they can feel better about being a shitty, less-than woman is to decide all other women are beneath them.

 

[Soulhuntress]

14 hours ago, L1o2u3 said:

Their newest post is called "The Greatest Calling of a Modern Christian Girl". Bethany shares the story of how she tried to convert an Au-Pair girl that was in the states for a year and how she almost didn't manage to "plant the seed of faith in her". Oh, and lots of questions!

Umm, be nice to her? 

If she wants to be friends with me, I will "build a friendship". But "lovingly bring up spiritual topics"? I think I  have an idea how that would look and I don't think that's loving. 

Or I don't care about both of these things and we can just hang out and get along? 

I will "love her enough" to accept her the way she is and no, I don't have a bad conscience because I don't constantly annoy her with Jesus-talk. That's not love. 

I fear that boldly and lovingly don't go together with telling her she is an evil sinner. So I might just tell her that I love her?

 

According to Bethany, I suck at being a Christian girl  

So do I.  Manipulations and sales tactics annoy me.   Her starter: Are you willing to love your friends enough to do these three things?  My friends and I are grown women and respect each other too much to do a damn Premier Jewelry presentation every time we "hang out"

1. Bring up spiritual conversations.

Really?  I know my friends well enough to know their heart, who or what they believe in and respect them enough to have a two way conversation.

2. Pray for an opportunity to share the gospel.

With who?  And do you mean act like I am trying to make them the downline to Plexus?  Because that is the kind of sharing that Ms.Bethany wants done.  

3. Share the gospel with your unsaved acquaintances/friends.

And sometimes use words?  Again the Plexus/It Works is not the model Jesus gave us nor is it how God saves souls.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Soulhuntress

[Howl]

I hate HATE HATE! the way people faux befriend in order to "spread the Word." It's inherently manipulative and is just straight out using people.   Most people rightly feel screwed when they respond positively to friendliness and then discover the person is just trying score their soul.   It also means that "soul savers" don't know really understand the purpose of friendship. 

[L1o2u3]

I also don't think of my friends as potential Jesus projects, but I view them as - friends  

 

Their Radical Purity-putting-chastitiy-belts-on-young-girls'-minds-conference is this weekend... Training them to be mind-virgins. No joke! 

https://www.girldefined.com/mind-virgin-saving-body 

Because appearantly your mind can be deflowered as well  and penetrated by lustful thoughts and then leaving the seed of Satan in there.  And because they say that the heart is filled with impure thoughts and lust, you probably also have to be a heart-virgin. 

Disturbing. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by L1o2u3

[BobTheWalrus]

I hate that Sacred Marriage book with a passion. I owned it for a while because someone recommended it to me, but I could never get into it. I think it's a dangerous book, because that attitude has contributed to women being abused. I mean, I get that 100% of your happiness can't come from one person, and that marriages will have tough times. But it's supposed to be a partnership, and your spouse should be a suitable companion. The big picture of marriage even in the Bible is that it's for love, support, companionship and enjoyment, for the benefit of the couple, their children and society. It's not supposed to be the man doing what he wants and the woman gritting her teeth and muttering "holy not happy" while he beats her.

[Howl]

6 hours ago, L1o2u3 said:

Because apparently your mind can be deflowered as well  and penetrated by lustful thoughts and then leaving the seed of Satan in there.  And because they say that the heart is filled with impure thoughts and lust, you probably also have to be a heart-virgin. 

This is THE recipe for neurosis.   And (clutches pearls on the way to the fainting couch) I adore your imagery! 

[CyborgKin]

It's like looked through the Bible, found all the places that talk about our sins being forgiven or washed away, and added "except sexual things" to each one.

[Jucifer]

20 hours ago, L1o2u3 said:

*snip*

Their Radical Purity-putting-chastitiy-belts-on-young-girls'-minds-conference is this weekend... Training them to be mind-virgins. No joke! 

https://www.girldefined.com/mind-virgin-saving-body 

Because appearantly your mind can be deflowered as well  and penetrated by lustful thoughts and then leaving the seed of Satan in there.  And because they say that the heart is filled with impure thoughts and lust, you probably also have to be a heart-virgin. 

Disturbing. 

So... training 'girls' to be mind virgins is literally a mind-fuck. 

Oh the irony. 

I can't believe these women are so willfully stupid. I seriously wonder if we're being punked. 

[SadieJane]

I just watched this again.... I missed the green eyebrows. I am going to start reading their blog....

[SadieJane]

Okay. Not to over do the posting on this thread tonight, but I am knee deep in the vlog, and I am watching this vlog with a young married couple... and the man is wonderful, and fabulous.... if you get me.... He seems pretty awesome, but yeah.I wonder if he knows the pecan thief? 

[Howl]

On 7/1/2017 at 10:53 AM, louisa05 said:

Marry someone you like and are friends with, that you like just being with. If you can't or don't want to do anything together with this person, then that is not the person you should marry. 

2-Once you do marry that person, be kind, helpful, respectful, loving and supportive to them (and none of those things is gender specific for the love of God--everyone needs to be treated with love and respect). In his homily at our wedding, our priest said there are three phrases that are key to a good marriage: "I love you", "I'm sorry" and "I forgive you". I would add "please" and "thank you".

I read the Matt Walsh article and part of the next one.  They basically say the same things you are (kinda sorta) with a subtext implying that all godless heathens and not-the-right-kind-of-Christians are too whorish and shallow to pull off the hard work of deep love and commitment required to make any marriage successful.  They both were very attracted to their future spouses and currently very happy in their marriages.  Both are flogging the "didn't marry for love" trope to suck in their readers, which is manipulative and shallow of them. 

Vaugh "Let Them Marry.org" Oldham, on the other hand..... 

[Palimpsest]

On 7/14/2017 at 2:24 AM, L1o2u3 said:

Training them to be mind-virgins. No joke! 

https://www.girldefined.com/mind-virgin-saving-body 

Oh, FFS.  I just started to read this and thought - well at least these silly little twits are acknowledging that women can actually lust.  

Nope.  Websurfing will deflower your mind! 

I REALLY want to ask them if they masturbate.

[Howl]

On 6/29/2017 at 4:28 PM, L1o2u3 said:

I think the first one was by Matt Walsh, my favorite Catholic (eg. http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/matt-walsh-i-didnt-fall-in-love-with-my-wife/ and favorite meaning entertaining, not that I actually like him). An example for the second one can be found here: http://equippinggodlywomen.com/marriage/why-i-didnt-choose-a-marriage-that-would-make-me-happy/

There's another point I'd like to make about these two twits giving marriage/life advice.  Matt Walsh is 11 years into it.  He has not yet raised teenagers.  Miss Equipping Gawdly Women is also not very far down the road of marriage.  They live a fantasy that everything will turn out OK BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE RIGHT THINGS.  They may very well go on to have long happy marriages, or they may not.  I'm going to be 69 in a few weeks.  I personally would take advice about life from someone my age, but NOT from people in their 20s, because they have no idea, really no idea about what might happen as life unfolds.  Don't misunderstand me.  People in their 20s can have an excellent grasp on life and make wise decisions with maturity and grace.  What these two shouldn't do is set themselves up as experts, based on limited experience.