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9 hours ago, SadieJane said:

It terrifies me that people are using this thinking that it is as decent as insurance. Now, I only work with psych patients, but all of my patients are long term (three days or more) in treatment that is in most cases court mandated (they have no freewill to say no I don't want this.) With Scamaritan and I am sure the other one as well they would look at you as a self pay, and they would probably force a sign up for medicaid/medicare. Healthcare isn't free, and everyone wants paid. You can't choose the moment you get sick.  I wish people knew better than to use programs like this....Makes me a sad panda.

I'm fairly sure Scamaritan doesn't cover psych issues - or at least anyone with a psych issue as a pre-existing condition.

Can anyone help me verify that?  I think I saw it in the tiny print at one point but can't find it again.  TIA.

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Do they cover things like physical, occupational and speech therapy that go on for years and years? I'm struggling to figure out exactly what they cover. 

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1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Do they cover things like physical, occupational and speech therapy that go on for years and years? I'm struggling to figure out exactly what they cover. 

From what I've seen, they cover critical care and home births.  If you got your appendix out, for instance, that would be covered. Beyond that, you're on your own. 

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8 minutes ago, Terrie said:

From what I've seen, they cover critical care and home births.  If you got your appendix out, for instance, that would be covered. Beyond that, you're on your own. 

Sounds like a really got idea to sign up with them. Not.

It never seizes to amaze how stupid fundies really are. Damn it folks!! Stop having shitloads of kids if you can't even have a coherent ever once in a while.

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So I read the whole thread on fb and I may have rolled my eyes about a dozen times. It is SO full of fakely sweet "debate." I wanted to gag. If they said anything even slightly negative, it was followed by fake as fuck sweetness, a big thank you, complements and then self deprecation. Is this how these people always talk? I would last about 10 seconds in a group of these fools. I'm always polite but I find the overly saccharine act to be be like nails on a chalkboard. 

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7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So I read the whole thread on fb and I may have rolled my eyes about a dozen times. It is SO full of fakely sweet "debate." I wanted to gag. If they said anything even slightly negative, it was followed by fake as fuck sweetness, a big thank you, complements and then self deprecation. Is this how these people always talk? I would last about 10 seconds in a group of these fools. I'm always polite but I find the overly saccharine act to be be like nails on a chalkboard. 

I've been known to use that tone when I'm trying to lead people through their logic and off a cliff. The nicer I get, the more I probably think you're an idiot. :) 

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8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So I read the whole thread on fb and I may have rolled my eyes about a dozen times. It is SO full of fakely sweet "debate."

<snip>

@JermajestyDuggar, I wish Coffee With Jesus would do a Scamaritan panel! 

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Can someone please explain to me why insurance is unchristian? I remember talking to my fundie lite aunt as a teen and she said something about it being a form of gambling. Of course, that doesn't seem to stop anybody from getting car or home insurance. Is it to avoid the possibility that "my money!!!" might go toward the prenatal care of an unwed mother or cancer treatment for an atheist or might acknowledge the humanity of a child born out of wedlock?

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3 minutes ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

Can someone please explain to me why insurance is unchristian? I remember talking to my fundie lite aunt as a teen and she said something about it being a form of gambling. Of course, that doesn't seem to stop anybody from getting car or home insurance. Is it to avoid the possibility that "my money!!!" might go toward the prenatal care of an unwed mother or cancer treatment for an atheist or might acknowledge the humanity of a child born out of wedlock?

That's a big factor. Particularly focused on paying for things like abortion or birth control that they deem abortion, STD treatment, and/or substance abuse treatment. The particularly judgmental ones are also opposed to helping pay for things like diabetes, which they attribute to unhealthy lifestyle.

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Scamaritan just seems like a such a bad value to me. It's so expensive for such limited "coverage"! I would think if you were absolutely opposed to insurance for some reason, you would be better off taking the same amount of money and putting it in a savings account each month. Then you'd be sure you had at least what you put in.

I mean obviously don't do that, get real insurance, but if hypothetically insurance is off the table, I don't actually see how Scamaritan is better than just saving your money toward future health-related costs.

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10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm fairly sure Scamaritan doesn't cover psych issues - or at least anyone with a psych issue as a pre-existing condition.

Can anyone help me verify that?  I think I saw it in the tiny print at one point but can't find it again.  TIA.

Here's what I found from their website:

Psychiatric Care—Inpatient psychiatric care due to involuntary commitment, and psychiatric treatment for changes in the brain due to injury or physical illness are publishable up to $50,000 per condition (as a part of the $250,000 need limit if not in Save to Share™). Psychotropic medication to treat chemical imbalances not demonstrable by lab tests is not publishable except for the situations described above. No other type of psychiatric care or services is publishable.

30. Psychological Services—Psychological services including psychophysiology are not publishable.

 

 

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3 hours ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

Can someone please explain to me why insurance is unchristian? I remember talking to my fundie lite aunt as a teen and she said something about it being a form of gambling. Of course, that doesn't seem to stop anybody from getting car or home insurance. Is it to avoid the possibility that "my money!!!" might go toward the prenatal care of an unwed mother or cancer treatment for an atheist or might acknowledge the humanity of a child born out of wedlock?

Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me. 

Big Daddy JB and one of my aunts explained it at different times and in equal brevity, so this is a very Readers Digest version:

Around the turn of the 19th-20th century, insurance plans were unregulated and very often nothing more than scams bordering on the criminal, if not outright criminal indeed.

From the pulpits, clergy encouraged parishioners to be careful with their investments -- indeed, in many cases buying a policy turned out to be worse than gambling, and people's lives were being ruined at the very time their insurance investment should've been providing aid and a cushion.

In response, faith communities and ethnic groups, even labor unions (IIRC but I might not) began to form their own insurance companies, often called "brotherhoods" to indicate the group nature of the outfits.

The idea was that the pooled funds would be invested and paid out in claims among a defined customer-community, by a firm that had a degree of trust and oversight by responsible, trusted community members.

For example: Lutherans founded the Aid Association for Lutherans and also the Lutheran Brotherhood, which merged some time ago into Thrivent.  I dont know what it's like now, but AAL & LB were operated as coöps of a sort and after expenses were met, profits were plowed back into the monies available to members for claims or as returns on investments. 

So, over 100 years ago, yes, life insurance was a dicey proposition.  It's now still an industry wherein the bricks are held together with blood not mortar, as some say, but anyone seeking responsible financial advice will know it's neither demonstrative of a lack of trust in God, and certainly not a gamble along the lines of casino gambling, to purchase insurance against life's uncertainties (and the big certainty!).

My sense is that Niednagel and his ilk reject conventional insurance as a show of solidarity against covered procedures which they find immoral.

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, TeddyBonkers said:

Here's what I found from their website:

Psychiatric Care—Inpatient psychiatric care due to involuntary commitment, and psychiatric treatment for changes in the brain due to injury or physical illness are publishable up to $50,000 per condition (as a part of the $250,000 need limit if not in Save to Share™). Psychotropic medication to treat chemical imbalances not demonstrable by lab tests is not publishable except for the situations described above. No other type of psychiatric care or services is publishable.

30. Psychological Services—Psychological services including psychophysiology are not publishable.

 

 

Thank you so much for finding that!  I love you muchly.  

So they cover TBI.  Their version of psych issues caused by "physical illness" is covered with along with what they define as approved "chemical imbalance," but not anything else.  And there is a strict limit.

I'd put money on Teri Maxwell being declined by Scamaritan because of her history of depression not her bad back.

 

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My guess is that PPA/PPD run rampant in these fundie circles (more pregnancies mean more chances) and are treated with essential oils and chiropractors. 

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And prayer.  And forcing yourself to act joyful.  It's not a feeling, it's a choice, amirite?

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5 hours ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

Can someone please explain to me why insurance is unchristian? I remember talking to my fundie lite aunt as a teen and she said something about it being a form of gambling. Of course, that doesn't seem to stop anybody from getting car or home insurance. Is it to avoid the possibility that "my money!!!" might go toward the prenatal care of an unwed mother or cancer treatment for an atheist or might acknowledge the humanity of a child born out of wedlock?

Insurance is no more unchristian than paying for any other item or service.

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Scamaritan just seems like a such a bad value to me. It's so expensive for such limited "coverage"! I would think if you were absolutely opposed to insurance for some reason, you would be better off taking the same amount of money and putting it in a savings account each month. Then you'd be sure you had at least what you put in.

I mean obviously don't do that, get real insurance, but if hypothetically insurance is off the table, I don't actually see how Scamaritan is better than just saving your money toward future health-related costs.

And some of them would do just that, but Samaritan gives them the ability to not pay the penalties for Obamacare. It is a complete exemption.

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5 hours ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

Can someone please explain to me why insurance is unchristian?

Gothard used to teach that it showed you didn't trust in God. Scamaritan says this:

Quote

God created man as His image bearer and the crown of His creation. Right worship of God requires respecting His image in all people for all of life, including health care. The Sixth Commandment, “You shall not murder,” requires the preservation of human life, and the subduing of all passions and avoiding all occasions, temptations, and practices which tend to the unjust taking of life. We must live according to Biblical ethics in all aspects of health care.

http://samaritanministries.org/foundational-principles/

So if you pay insurance you might pay for birth control, which we all know is just like murdering a newborn. :roll:

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9 hours ago, Terrie said:

I've been known to use that tone when I'm trying to lead people through their logic and off a cliff. The nicer I get, the more I probably think you're an idiot. :) 

Ha, I'm reminded of the whole "what British people say, and what other people think they mean" stuff that was going round a few years ago!

ETA Also the Very British Problems twitter

(I made the mistake of showing my Aussie best friend, once, who hadn't realised my "I see what you're saying..." type phrases!)

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@MamaJunebug, I have life insurance through Thrivent, and some of my mutual funds with them. My parents set these accounts up when I was a little 'un. Once I started earning a paycheck, I took over paying the monthly premiums and contributing to the mutual funds. As far as I know, Thrivent does not offer health insurance, aside from Medicare Supplement Insurance. 

 

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42 minutes ago, TeddyBonkers said:

@MamaJunebug, I have life insurance through Thrivent, and some of my mutual funds with them. My parents set these accounts up when I was a little 'un. Once I started earning a paycheck, I took over paying the monthly premiums and contributing to the mutual funds. As far as I know, Thrivent does not offer health insurance, aside from Medicare Supplement Insurance. 

 

Hi, @TeddyBonkers

https://www.thrivent.com/products/insurance/#

Thrivent does have health coverage. I thought so but had to google.  Am I a Googlutheran?

My post was responding to the question why/if religious people thought that life insurance is immoral. Around 1900, when life insurance was questionable and the various brotherhoods were forming, medical care was costly but nothing like it is now.  In fact, my family didn't have medical insurance while I was a dependent.  The folks said prices were pretty well known and people just budgeted to pay upon receipt, or made payment plans for unexpected, big bills. 

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5 hours ago, TeddyBonkers said:

Here's what I found from their website:

Psychiatric Care—Inpatient psychiatric care due to involuntary commitment, and psychiatric treatment for changes in the brain due to injury or physical illness are publishable up to $50,000 per condition (as a part of the $250,000 need limit if not in Save to Share™). Psychotropic medication to treat chemical imbalances not demonstrable by lab tests is not publishable except for the situations described above. No other type of psychiatric care or services is publishable.

30. Psychological Services—Psychological services including psychophysiology are not publishable.

Thanks for this info.

So essentially they do not provide mental health coverage, since the majority of mental illness cannot be traced to a specific injury or physical illness and many have a genetic component.

They don't even properly cover traumatic brain injury, either, with a coverage limit of $50,000 - TBI costs far more than that in treatment and therapy. A TBI patient would blow through that limit in no time and then be on their own.

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So inpatient psych treatment can be covered if you're involuntarily committed, but not if you sign yourself in? Weird, usually it's preferable not to get involuntarily committed but I guess if you had Samaritan then it would be better to let yourself be involuntarily committed.

I'm curious what a chemical imbalance demonstrable through lab tests would consist of.

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11 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm curious what a chemical imbalance demonstrable through lab tests would consist of.

I've been wondering about that and I think it's just to make it sound like they cover mental illnesses caused by chemical imbalances in the brain since that would theoretically not be the person's "fault" either (of course mental illness is never the person's fault in reality, but that's what's implied by their limitations.) However, I can't think of any mental health condition that's actually diagnosed by lab tests of the person's brain chemistry or how that would even be possible, so I think it's a nonsense provision to make it appear they have coverage to people who don't have knowledge of the subject. 

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So if the ACA is pulled, doesn't this mean, a higher chance Samaritan and the like are set to tank? I mean if these people aren't worried about fines, why bother?

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13 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Gothard used to teach that it showed you didn't trust in God. Scamaritan says this:

http://samaritanministries.org/foundational-principles/

So if you pay insurance you might pay for birth control, which we all know is just like murdering a newborn. :roll:

Yet they don't cover any treatment for someone who is suicidal. 

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