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First Grandson Special


Buzzard

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I loved how the camera was in the bathroom, while Anna was in the process of giving birth, in the most uncomfortable way that they had to blur out some parts of her. How uncomfortable.

As for the home birth, I think it's just a matter of opinion. My cousin refuses to give birth in a hospital because she said felt more comfortable being at home, knowing she could sleep in a comfortable environment not have nurses around 24/7 while you're hooked up with needles. She said it felt nicer to have her baby by her side instead of him being in a nursery with other new borns. Then again, hospitals, for most part, are kind enough to make you feel homey and will leave your child by your side instead of a nursery.

Personally, I would feel more comfortable at a hospital. If something was to go wrong, I know I have all those doctors and nurses to help my child out right away rather than having to quickly rush to the nearest hospital and pray he or she is okay by the time we get there.

What bothered me about this show was the fact that Anna's mother wasn't there both times her grandchildren were born. I know I would be happy to have my mother in law but I know with the whole giving birth process, I would definitely want my mom with me by my side more. I know it's difficult for her mom to come up because of her living in Florida, but both times she couldn't make it? I don't get why they could fly her in around the time she was due.

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I don't think the toilet was a big issue. She was perched on it with her pelvic area up off of it, she didn't deliver IN it. Those germs on it mostly belong to her and Smuggar, and since the baby is coming out of her hoo-ha to begin with (consider the close proximity to that OTHER area :doh: )...not a big deal. I'm actually more grossed out when I see people delivering in birth pools or bathtubs with all the birthing gunk floating around them. But that's just me. I'm fairly certain the vernix protects them anyway.

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Guest Anonymous

I read it and I remain unconvinced. What if the baby's heartbeat drops? What if he's breech? What if the umbilical cord gets wrapped around his neck? What if his big, round head gets stuck like my younger cousin's did? There are just too many things that could go wrong even with a low risk pregnancy, for the mom as well as for the baby. It's better to be safe than sorry, I say. But then again, these fundies believe nothing bad will ever happen to them because God loves them more than He does the rest of us.

Holy wow. All I can say is, check out some up-to-date, mainstream statistics from non-fundie sources and you might just see why so many women, women of all different faiths and religions, or none at all, choose homebirth. You totally opened up a can of worms here. That always happens when the ignorant hit FJ. :roll:

ETA: Here you go, I did a little of the work for you :) http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/200 ... irths.html

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I'm not watching but having given birth fairly recently myself, I am so sorry for her. I've never understood the urge to give birth on TV in the first place but it seems like she doesn't have much choice. Sad.

And . . . the birth part of my birth was fine, baby was OK, but as soon as they cut the cord it broke off from the placenta. The midwife RAN to get the doctor and they had to fish the placenta out rather than allowing me to deliver it. Also had a 2nd AND a 3rd degree tear. As much as I like the idea of homebirth in theory (man it would have been nice to be sleeping in my own bed after that), in practice that would have been incredibly dangerous for me if it had happened at home. The room started to look like a horror movie pretty quickly - several sets of scary looking tools (including a suture needle that looked like a fishhook! eep!) and about ten different people in masks and bloody gloves. Thankfully I couldn't really see what was going on, already had an epidural and was distracted by the baby and the hormones. It was another hour and a half before anybody could come in. I just . . . I understand wanting to have it at home, but I don't. A normal delivery can go bad so fast.

And they will let you keep your baby with you in the room nowadays, I think that's pretty common practice. (Although after 24+hours of no sleep and a baby who required finger feeding we actually did have the nurses take her overnight so we could sleep a little.) But anyway. Stepping out of that part of the discussion now.

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Guest Anonymous

My husband who is a REALLY GOOD GUY kept falling asleep repeatedly during my 28 hour labor (not like he "went to go take a nap" but he sat there, falling asleep.). I was so furious that during the next contraction I bit him on the hand. Hard. I was a little bit... insane during labor (a 3 hour transition and a sunny side up baby with no pain medication will do that to you)

I then got the damn epidural and fell asleep myself.

I think homebirth is ok, but fuck dude, TELEVISED? yeah not cool.

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Why are they buying a new crib when they already had one for Mackynzie? Nevermind, figured it out. Der...

Edit - For our next baby I'm torn between homebirth and hospital birth. I had a birth center birth with my son and I loved only having my husband and midwives watching me but DAMN that back labor was intense! I think next time around if I start to feel that back pain again I'll demand that they just give me a c-section. ;) Ugh. If it weren't for the back pain, giving birth would have been a breeze!

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so --- not ok to wear pants or show cleavage but OK to hang your vag out to a camera crew???

THIS !!!

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For Anna's next birth, they should rent a birthing chair. It is much better than a toilet.

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For Anna's next birth, they should rent a birthing chair. It is much better than a toilet.

I first read this as "birthing car" and was like WTF is that? Similar to a birthing bus? ;)

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I'm watching a rerun right now, and they just did the "I LOVE being home and getting things ready for Josh, etc." It would probably be an innocuous statement from someone else, but you know they just had to reinforce their personal gender roles at least once in the episode.

Oh wow! They're showing home movies from when Jana and John David were born, and they're wearing normal little kid clothes!

Aaaaand the Bradley Method commercial. Well, Anna seems to be kind of having fun, at least.

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I haven't seen the episode yet, but have recorded it to watch later. Sounds infuriating, which is no surprise.

Jumping into the open can of worms for a minute, I can understand the desire for a home birth, and I'm sure it can be perfectly safe, but only if there is a licensed nurse midwife present, and if the mother has had regular prenatal care, which means WEEKLY appointments in the last month of the pregnancy. Anna spent the last 3 weeks travelling across country by bus, and I have a hard time believing that any decent midwife or OBGYN would approve a trip like that in the later stages of pregnancy.

It has never been confirmed whether the woman attending Anna's births was in fact a licensed nurse-midwife, or just a Gothard approved doula/coach. I don't care how many births she has attended, if she hasn't been fully trained, she might not be able to respond properly to any unforseen complications, and the potential for a tragic outcome is multiplied.

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I loved how the camera was in the bathroom, while Anna was in the process of giving birth, in the most uncomfortable way that they had to blur out some parts of her. How uncomfortable.

It looked like they part(s) they blurred included her left thigh (to the knee), and her belly (it looked as though someone had pulled her shirt up to just below her bra. When she had Mack, she had all the camera men around her, she was, ah, exposed, and the minute Mack came out, she pulled her shirt down to cover the 1 inch of belly skin that had been exposed. This I don't understand. I would have been more concerned about the lady bits showing than a thigh, or portion of a belly.

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I haven't seen the episode yet, but have recorded it to watch later. Sounds infuriating, which is no surprise.

Jumping into the open can of worms for a minute, I can understand the desire for a home birth, and I'm sure it can be perfectly safe, but only if there is a licensed nurse midwife present, and if the mother has had regular prenatal care, which means WEEKLY appointments in the last month of the pregnancy. Anna spent the last 3 weeks travelling across country by bus, and I have a hard time believing that any decent midwife or OBGYN would approve a trip like that in the later stages of pregnancy.

It has never been confirmed whether the woman attending Anna's births was in fact a licensed nurse-midwife, or just a Gothard approved doula/coach. I don't care how many births she has attended, if she hasn't been fully trained, she might not be able to respond properly to any unforseen complications, and the potential for a tragic outcome is multiplied.

This, this, this! We even know that they kept the option open of having the birth on the bus, which meant they were fine with having Jill as the most qualified I-can't-even-say-professional. Yes, Jill who took (was it even completed?) Gothard's doula course. For those who haven't watched yet, yes, they had an entire suitcase on the bus dedicated to holding birthing supplies including plastic sheeting, gauze, hydrogen peroxide, etc. These are not people with a priority of anything approaching proper medical care.

ITO homebirth in general, the above link is from Canada where homebirth midwives are an actual part of a hospital-based medical team and have much better regulations than midwives in the US. Even if a state has regulations from the fundies we've seen those who want a homebirth have no problem finding a lay midwife (Carrie, for one, and DocSharon seemed to have her own set of frightening stories). A general homebirth discussion would probably be better in its own thread though.

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Third: That baby looked awfully blue at first...

And this is the point where I turned off the TV because I couldn't take any more.

Agreed about the blue-ness. If Anna really was pushing when she was in the bed, then they moved to the couch, then had enough time for Josh to have a half hour nap before the birth, that's a good chunk of time to be pushing. I'm guessing Anna now has a new understanding of those "big Duggar heads"...

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I'm leaning towards Gothard trained. While with Mac they were shown going to doctor appointments and the doctor (Michelle's) was spoken of highly with her experience this woman wasn't even named that I noticed. Also since she was willing to give birth on a bus and only seemed mildly interested in hospitals along the way I just don't feel that Smugger and Anna take birth seriously enough.

And I think we should have a seperate home birth thread so people can rehash that and we can focus on the fact that Anna gave birth on a toliet and the baby looked afraid in the ultrasound.

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Her name is Teresa Fedosky. She is a Bradley educator but I haven't found anything that shows her qualifications as a doula, monatrice, or midwife. I have a friend who was a Bradley teacher and while they tend to be very highly educated, there is a difference between talking about what to do in an emergency and being able to actually do it...

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Seeing Anna's family on the show after all the drama with her exiled siblings makes me view them differently.

I haven't been able to see the special yet--it's not on Amazon yet. Just want to comment on this. Everyone seems to assume that Suze and Daniel were "shunned.." something tells me it's two spoiled brats wanting to make Mom and Dad "pay" for some imagined slight. They may be in their 20s but the way they've been raised they are at about the age 14/15 hateful state in real emotional development. I keep trying to get the "shunned" thing added up to what the b-in-l wrote about his parents-in-law [nicest people etc] at the time of Mr. and Mrs. Smugger's wedding. I just can't see people who've not batted an eye at working in prisons being that awful to their kids. I could, of course, be wrong.......

I DO think Josh wants to take over the show and have it focus on his family. I hope not.

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Am I the only one who is creeped out that the make such a big deal about having a first grandson? It's like Mack doesn't even count because she's just a girl. Now they're happy to have a "real" grandkid, instead of just somebody else's future helpmeet. If Mack were a few years older, she'd probably feel like crap because everyone's doting over the boy and ignoring the girl.

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I hadn't seen anything of Anna's parents until I watched a youtube clip from the courtship episode the other night. I can believe they'd shun their own kids.

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yep, the first grandSON thing is gaggy. And that lovely speech Jboob gave about the wonders of holding the FIRST grandSON. Yak.

Jill is the wannabe midwife and Jill was there the whole time.

Had that woman been a midwife of any description, she would have had some letters after her name.

I thought she was in the tub at the end.

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Am I the only one who is creeped out that the make such a big deal about having a first grandson? It's like Mack doesn't even count because she's just a girl. Now they're happy to have a "real" grandkid, instead of just somebody else's future helpmeet. If Mack were a few years older, she'd probably feel like crap because everyone's doting over the boy and ignoring the girl.

I quite agree! If they already had several grand-daughters, and this was the first boy , it MIGHT be a little more understandable. My daughter was the first grand-daughter on one side of the family after a run of boys, and she definitely did get fussed over. Even then, children are sensitive to such things and I was very glad that her older brother had really wanted a sister( he was a big He-Man fan and reckoned that a sister would be She-Ra) and was really excited, too. No doubt, poor Mack will have plenty of further opportunities to realise her relative lack of worth. :cry:

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Oops, I want to clarify that although I fully support home birth as an informed choice for pregnant women, I absolutely cannot agree more with those of you who are advocating for quality prenatal care and a qualified attendant, I didn't even think to add that myself as it seems to me to be a given. I'm from Canada, that's why I posted a Canadian link. I'm so grateful that midwifery is regulated up here, it insures high quality care for every woman who wants it. I was uper lucky, as my midwife was not only highly trained and well qualified, she actually led several studies for the Ontario government on improving maternal care and lowering the infant mortality rate. I really think the US needs to address the midwife situation down there, up here lay midwives are illegal, and they've pretty much been run out of business anyway by the qualified ones. IME, women will always opt for what is safer, and that's a large part of why regulation has been so successful up here.

Anyway, all this to say, I agree that homebirth done in this manner is reckless, dangerous, and asking for trouble. In light of that, I genuinely feel for Anna. I think she's being bullied. She may not see it (yet), but that family is taking advantage of her. What woman in her right mind would be okay with birthing on a freaking bus full of howler moneys and in-laws?? She HAD to be okay with it, she had to shut up and play nice. It's typical fundie patriarchy, what Jboob says, goes. JBoob says, do it for the family, he means do it for the money, and Anna does it because, well, what the hell else is she supposed to do? Speak up? Cause trouble? Would any of US be able to do that in her situation? I know I would WANT to, but to get the courage to speak up, to have a voice, when you're in that type of family is nearly impossible. Josh is a schmuck, he doesn't have the balls to stick up for his wife and say no. He doesn't have the cajones to resist TLC's camera's in the labour room because, well, they could really use the money too. He's allowed his family to become an exhibition for the world, and there's not a fricking thing Anna could do about it even if she wanted to. I haven't watched the special. I saw that picture of her, in the pool, a towel over her waist, obviously at her most vulnerable, and as a mother myself I can't bring myself to watch her go through that. It makes me mad as hell. At Josh. At TLC. At everybody. My heart breaks for that girl.

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I haven't been able to see the special yet--it's not on Amazon yet. Just want to comment on this. Everyone seems to assume that Suze and Daniel were "shunned.." something tells me it's two spoiled brats wanting to make Mom and Dad "pay" for some imagined slight. They may be in their 20s but the way they've been raised they are at about the age 14/15 hateful state in real emotional development. I keep trying to get the "shunned" thing added up to what the b-in-l wrote about his parents-in-law [nicest people etc] at the time of Mr. and Mrs. Smugger's wedding. I just can't see people who've not batted an eye at working in prisons being that awful to their kids. I could, of course, be wrong.......

I DO think Josh wants to take over the show and have it focus on his family. I hope not.

We also had somebody who knew the family post about them shunning kids back before everyone found Suze's facebook and such. Things can change in families depending on how well people are getting along. Back before my son was born I was very close to my MIL but since he was born every chance she gets to undermind me with how we raise him she does while making passive agressive remarks to me. She likes to be in control of everyone so when we didn't have kids then I was willing to do things her way but now with our son if they're not eating dinner until 9 pm we are going home and not hanging out all night with a fussy baby. Anna's parents could be similar and while their kids were toeing the line around the wedding everything was great but once they started getting away from the church and the son listening to his wife instead of comanding her then things got nasty.

Not that I think Anna's parents are horrible people. I think they want everyone to get a long but they aren't willing to compromise on their children breaking rules that they see as important such as a man commanding a woman.

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