Fundie Cherry Picking - OT and Marrying Your BIL

[Deleted08]

topical-bible-studies.org/35-0051.htm

 

I was reading some Bible stuff and I found this topic. Fundies love to quote the Old Testament so I wonder how many of them would agree to this old rule?

 

EW at that thought. My BILs dislike me and I dislike them lol!

 

lol

[Kitten]

15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?

17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?

18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.

But this is the best part - Good ol' Judah just can't keep it in his pants...He actively solicits the harlot's "services," but later, he wants to burn his DIL for the exact same behavior, until it becomes clear that he's the baby daddy, at which point her behavior was all hunky-dory, since she only did it to remind him that she was supposed to get his son. I'd love to hear Daddy Fundy explaining that to the kiddies during Bible time. :lol: :lol:

[fundiefan]

That verse played a role in the reformation. Henry VIII had scholars, lawyers and theologians studying it for years in contrast to the one in Leviticus that says the opposite.

At least I believe those are the two. One said marry your brothers wife. The other said not because if you do you won't have sons.

[bananacat]

This is the rule that set up the story of Onan, so they must be at least tangentially aware of it.

[fundyfunland]

I always thought of this tenet as a rather ((please don't hate me)) feminist action actually. Before pouncing, hear me out. Awhile back - say 6000yrs ago, if a woman's husband died, she'd be without an income (or a greater one then she'd be producing in real estate & selling @ the market), plus she'd have all these kids to take care of. To encourage (require) the BIL to marry her, would reduce her workload & give her a greater income & more security.

[emmiedahl]

I think it was in part to protect the woman, in part to protect the bloodline. They were polygamous, so it's not like marrying her excludes him from having a wife more suited to him and sons of his own.

[fundifugee]

This is a practice amongst several cultures in East Africa (maybe elsewhere, but I am only familiar with Uganda, Rwanda, Kenya and Ethiopia).

It is responsible for the devastating spread of HIV. Guy dies of AIDS, brother marries his wife. Brother and wives get HIV, and it eventually decimates entire extended families.

Bad idea God!

[bananacat]

I always thought of this tenet as a rather ((please don't hate me)) feminist action actually. Before pouncing, hear me out. Awhile back - say 6000yrs ago, if a woman's husband died, she'd be without an income (or a greater one then she'd be producing in real estate & selling @ the market), plus she'd have all these kids to take care of. To encourage (require) the BIL to marry her, would reduce her workload & give her a greater income & more security.

I wouldn't call it feminist, but it was certainly better than the alternatives for women in those times. Looking out for the (relative) welfare of women doesn't automatically mean something is feminist though. It's the same way that polygyny in Islam was condoned to protect widows and orphans, but while it helped some women to not starve to death, it still wasn't feminist.

[fundyfunland]

This is a practice amongst several cultures in East Africa (maybe elsewhere, but I am only familiar with Uganda, Rwanda, Kenya and Ethiopia).

It is responsible for the devastating spread of HIV. Guy dies of AIDS, brother marries his wife. Brother and wives get HIV, and it eventually decimates entire extended families.

Bad idea God!

Good god! With all due respect, this is an extremely simplistic & is not what is responsible for the spread of HIV. Reasons for the spread include: (sorry tired so copied & pasted word-for word from Wikipedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_i ... and_spread)-

1. The distrust for modern medicine is often linked to theories of a "Western Plot" [8] of mass sterilization or population reduction.

2. For African countries with advanced medical facilities, patents on many drugs have hindered the ability to make low cost alternatives.

3. Natural disasters and conflict are also major challenges, as the resulting economic problems people face can drive many young women and girls into patterns of sex work in order to ensure their livelihood or that of their family. Sex workers are less able to resist their clients' refusal to wear condoms

4. Patents on medications have prevented access to medications as well as the growth in research for more affordable alternatives

5. Labourers commonly picked up HIV in the towns and cities, spreading it to the countryside when they visited their home[citation needed]. Empirical evidence brings into sharp relief the connection between road and rail networks and the spread of HIV[citation needed]. Long distance truck drivers have been identified as a group with the high-risk behaviour of sleeping with prostitutes and a tendency to spread the infection along trade routes in the region

6. Cultural or social norms often indicate that while women must remain faithful men are able and even expected to philander irrespective of their marital status. Along with the occurrence of multiple sexual partners, unemployment and population displacements that result from drought and conflict contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS

[fundyfunland]

I wouldn't call it feminist, but it was certainly better than the alternatives for women in those times. Looking out for the (relative) welfare of women doesn't automatically mean something is feminist though. It's the same way that polygyny in Islam was condoned to protect widows and orphans, but while it helped some women to not starve to death, it still wasn't feminist.

Agree to disagree. I wouldn't claim it as feminist today, but back in the day...yeah for sure.

[CanadianHippie]

Good god! With all due respect, this is an extremely simplistic & is not what is responsible for the spread of HIV. Reasons for the spread include: (sorry tired so copied & pasted word-for word from Wikipedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_i ... and_spread)-

1. The distrust for modern medicine is often linked to theories of a "Western Plot" [8] of mass sterilization or population reduction.

2. For African countries with advanced medical facilities, patents on many drugs have hindered the ability to make low cost alternatives.

3. Natural disasters and conflict are also major challenges, as the resulting economic problems people face can drive many young women and girls into patterns of sex work in order to ensure their livelihood or that of their family. Sex workers are less able to resist their clients' refusal to wear condoms

4. Patents on medications have prevented access to medications as well as the growth in research for more affordable alternatives

5. Labourers commonly picked up HIV in the towns and cities, spreading it to the countryside when they visited their home[citation needed]. Empirical evidence brings into sharp relief the connection between road and rail networks and the spread of HIV[citation needed]. Long distance truck drivers have been identified as a group with the high-risk behaviour of sleeping with prostitutes and a tendency to spread the infection along trade routes in the region

6. Cultural or social norms often indicate that while women must remain faithful men are able and even expected to philander irrespective of their marital status. Along with the occurrence of multiple sexual partners, unemployment and population displacements that result from drought and conflict contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS

I know you copied and pasted, but just have to point out, you're missing "completely contradictory information regarding the prevention of infection by foreign organizations travelling to Africa in an attempt to help." You know, on one hand you have the people there say "safer sex will prevent the spread of HIV" and you have the other people saying "Condoms don't prevent/increase the spread of HIV".

That being said, there are polyandrous cultures within Africa. They are generally very small groups though.

[Joykins]

But this is the best part - Good ol' Judah just can't keep it in his pants...He actively solicits the harlot's "services," but later, he wants to burn his DIL for the exact same behavior, until it becomes clear that he's the baby daddy, at which point her behavior was all hunky-dory, since she only did it to remind him that she was supposed to get his son. I'd love to hear Daddy Fundy explaining that to the kiddies during Bible time. :lol: :lol:

What I love is that this passage shows Tamar as being pretty darn awesome and exposing patriarchal male hypocrisy. Also she gets listed by name as an ancestor of Jesus so she did very well whoring herself there. I listened to a sermon on this once in my old church, and that is what I took from it.

[fundifugee]

Good god! With all due respect, this is an extremely simplistic & is not what is responsible for the spread of HIV. Reasons for the spread include: (sorry tired so copied & pasted word-for word from Wikipedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_i ... and_spread)-

1. The distrust for modern medicine is often linked to theories of a "Western Plot" [8] of mass sterilization or population reduction.

2. For African countries with advanced medical facilities, patents on many drugs have hindered the ability to make low cost alternatives.

3. Natural disasters and conflict are also major challenges, as the resulting economic problems people face can drive many young women and girls into patterns of sex work in order to ensure their livelihood or that of their family. Sex workers are less able to resist their clients' refusal to wear condoms

4. Patents on medications have prevented access to medications as well as the growth in research for more affordable alternatives

5. Labourers commonly picked up HIV in the towns and cities, spreading it to the countryside when they visited their home[citation needed]. Empirical evidence brings into sharp relief the connection between road and rail networks and the spread of HIV[citation needed]. Long distance truck drivers have been identified as a group with the high-risk behaviour of sleeping with prostitutes and a tendency to spread the infection along trade routes in the region

6. Cultural or social norms often indicate that while women must remain faithful men are able and even expected to philander irrespective of their marital status. Along with the occurrence of multiple sexual partners, unemployment and population displacements that result from drought and conflict contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS

Ok, so I didn't say "the main reason" or "the only reason" or anything. I should probably have said "responsible in part". I did mention that it was only in some of the cultures, and I can only speak for the places I've lived, not anywhere else.

And to add to the above, nowhere did I find mistrust of western medicine, just non-existence of the same. When I lived with a family who was HIV positive, the nearest medical clinic was a four hour ride in the back of a pickup; and you had to queue up by 4 AM to have any hope of getting seen. And they didn't treat HIV. To try to get treatment for HIV itself (not just random and questionable antibiotics for opportunistic infections), you had to take the 18-20 hour trip to Kampala, and be independently wealthy to afford the clinics there.