The Boyer Sisters, Part 3

[DancingPhalanges]

56 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Or a normal American Muslim person. Or you know all those normal gay people in history.

White Christians weren't exactly the good guys in some parts of history. Terrible things have been done because of things written in the Bible. Is he going to dig into what it was like for people who were persecuted by Christians? 

And now we have an orange guy to worry about. That really scares me. 

Edited to add: Maybe orange is the new white. 

[Gabe]

48 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I also have a feeling that by saying his history will be about "normal, ordinary people" is that he really means white, Protestant penis-holders. With people like this anyone who doesn't fit that definition is therefore abnormal and requires a "special" history, separate from the mainstream one.  Unsurprisingly, most of the time even these "alternate" histories present the non-dominant group in question as present only in relation to the hegemonic "normal, ordinary people." 

I just can't imagine a person like Gabe digging into, say, the history of normal, ordinary Jewish-Americans or normal, ordinary women who worked in the textile mills in New England, or normal, ordinary Native Americans, or normal, ordinary Italian-Americans, or normal, ordinary African-Americans during the Great Migration. People's history, my ass. 

Actually I have done a significant amount of research on textile mills and the people who worked in them (in England in the 18th century.) (I am a tailor after all.) And it's pretty rich for you to judge a hypothetical work based on how little you know of the proposed author.

[ViolaSebastian]

11 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Actually I have done a significant amount of research on textile mills and the people who worked in them (in England in the 18th century.) (I am a tailor after all.) And it's pretty rich for you to judge a hypothetical work based on how little you know of the proposed author.

By all means, please point me to your previous works. 

[jozina]

My parents had some 1960s encyclopaedias too. I used to read them as a child and thought I had an excellent knowledge of history. Then I hit high school, started actually studying history and realised what a horribly whitewashed, Caucasian-centric history they had presented.  If my history materials from school had told the same history as those encyclopaedias I can imagine I too would still be confident about the excellence of my history knowledge and disturbed by any history that challenged it. Thank God I am not.

[Ms Jess]

21 minutes ago, Gabe said:

You are making a significant assumption based on a lack of evidence.

Yet, in the absence of any other evidence, what else can one do?

[ViolaSebastian]

47 minutes ago, jozina said:

My parents had some 1960s encyclopaedias too. I used to read them as a child and thought I had an excellent knowledge of history. Then I hit high school, started actually studying history and realised what a horribly whitewashed, Caucasian-centric history they had presented.  If my history materials from school had told the same history as those encyclopaedias I can imagine I too would still be confident about the excellence of my history knowledge and disturbed by any history that challenged it. Thank God I am not.

The very fact that the man thinks he can read the encyclopedia and a few history books and consider himself a historian is as hilarious to me as the fact that he fancies himself a tailor because he has a sewing hobby. 

Both are careers that take hours of practice, time, effort, and loads of experience. But I guess Jana Duggar is a concert pianist, too. 

[MarblesMom]

1 hour ago, jozina said:

 

My parents had some 1960s encyclopaedias too.

 

Yes!  Loved reading these.  "One day man may go to the moon."

[Destiny]

Yes!  Loved reading these.  "One day man may go to the moon."

I had a set of those too, and that line cracked me up.

I also read the entire encyclopaedia, and if you didn't see how whitewashed and gender biased that history was, then I don't really know what else to say.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I just want to know where my rocket pack and flying car went. They (World Book Childcraft encyclopedias) promised me that I'd have those when I grew up!

[Destiny]

I just want to know where my rocket pack and flying car went. They (World Book Childcraft encyclopedias) promised me that I'd have those when I grew up!

Right? Or at least self driving cars! We were lied to!

[DancingPhalanges]

24 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Right? Or at least self driving cars! We were lied to!

Is Uber/Google testing self-driving cars? Maybe the "real drivers" "just in case" don't count? I'm not sure! 

[FormerlyFundyLite]

My public school 7th grade science text (at what is considered a good school, mind you) promised in the 90s that we would land on Mars and colonize the Moon by 2000. Instead, Pluto got a demotion soon after. Revolve in Peace.

[ViolaSebastian]

My parents had an old dictionary with a color insert that had illustrations of various kinds of ships. I was fascinated with it as a child, so I now consider myself to be a chief officer. Ahoy, matey.

[DancingPhalanges]

19 minutes ago, FormerlyFundyLite said:

My public school 7th grade science text (at what is considered a good school, mind you) promised in the 90s that we would land on Mars and colonize the Moon by 2000. Instead, Pluto got a demotion soon after. Revolve in Peace.

I have a Magic School Bus book that says Pluto is a planet. Revolve in Peace, I love that. 

[December]

2 hours ago, jozina said:

My parents had some 1960s encyclopaedias too. I used to read them as a child and thought I had an excellent knowledge of history. Then I hit high school, started actually studying history and realised what a horribly whitewashed, Caucasian-centric history they had presented.  If my history materials from school had told the same history as those encyclopaedias I can imagine I too would still be confident about the excellence of my history knowledge and disturbed by any history that challenged it. Thank God I am not.

 

Agreed! In my history classes in college, we'd often be asked to defend our use of secondary sources that were not written in the last ~30 years or so. That doesn't mean we weren't supposed to utilize them or that they had no value, but we were supposed to think critically about the narratives and biases that any source (especially an older source) was pushing and whether it was in line with what's acceptable as valid academic scholarship today. It's great to read a lot of sources, but it's also important to evaluate the worth of those sources critically.

[charmedforsure]

41 minutes ago, DancingPhalanges said:

Is Uber/Google testing self-driving cars? Maybe the "real drivers" "just in case" don't count? I'm not sure! 

I see the Google self-driving cars like maybe every 3rd day or so while I'm out and about. They have guys that sit behind the wheel and in the passenger seat but they're basically playing on tablets/laptops the entire time the car is driving, that they're essentially just passengers. Google is building a huge permanent garage/testing center here in Chandler, AZ, and after Arizona's governor went out to tour it and see the cars in action, he was so floored by the tech, he signed something or other that allows Uber's self-driving cars to basically rule the streets now. It's all about that tech $$$.

[MarblesMom]

43 minutes ago, DancingPhalanges said:

Is Uber/Google testing self-driving cars?

Oh my gosh, I just heard about a friend who was recruited by a "German car company for $15 an hour" to test drive driverless cars.  I think this person just signed up to be a Real Human Crash Test Dummy.

[FormerlyFundyLite]

4 minutes ago, DancingPhalanges said:

I have a Magic School Bus book that says Pluto is a planet. Revolve in Peace, I love that. 

Stole it from a meme I can no longer find, to be perfectly honest. Instead, i give you this one.

[Destiny]

I know that self driving cars exist, but I can't go buy one, so until I can, they don't exist. THUS SAYETH DESTINY, SO MOTE IT BE!

Disclaimer: I fucking HATE driving. Build me a car that can drive itself and I'm on board. FUCK YES MORE READING TIME!

[DancingPhalanges]

36 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I know that self driving cars exist, but I can't go buy one, so until I can, they don't exist. THUS SAYETH DESTINY, SO MOTE IT BE!

Disclaimer: I fucking HATE driving. Build me a car that can drive itself and I'm on board. FUCK YES MORE READING TIME!

Yesssss....FJ has me reading all kinds of stuff plus my stack of books and real life getting in the way. I need more reading time!

Edited to add: where I live it's drive or take Uber. I wish for public transportation! I have epilepsy so grounded until March. I'm about to celebrate 4 mos seizure free. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

A Beka teaches that the idea that the Great Depression was bad is just liberal propaganda.

 How can it say so with the myriad of sources that testify the miserable conditions of living of the general population and be taken seriously? Moreover the crisis consequences hit way beyond US borders affecting many more countries. A propos of this @Gabe, I noticed  that fundies tend to think that the world starts and ends with the US and hic sunt leones anywhere else. Do you plan to research the ties your history has with the wider world (beyond the "Western countries")? Do you plan to insert in your curriculum for example zarist Russia, pre colonial India, the immensely complicated history of China, precolombian America,  Ife civilization just to name only a few? Would you and how would you  talk about the non Christian religions that characterised most of the world civilisations? Would you privilege a derogatory narration that these were (and many still are) somehow lesser cultures because non judeo-christian?

4 hours ago, DancingPhalanges said:

You use strong language against Howard Zinn's book that you referenced but not the Bob Jones history curriculum that you read for fun?

He said it has a "socialistic slant" don't you know that commies and socialists eat children? This was a lie that circulated for a long time here, it was originated during fascism but some  propaganda repeated it for a long time after the end of the regime. 

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

You are making a significant assumption based on a lack of evidence.

So you went to college? 

[Gabe]

3 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Gabe, I noticed  that fundies tend to think that the world starts and ends with the US and hic sunt leones anywhere else. Do you plan to research the ties your history has with the wider world (beyond the "Western countries")? Do you plan to insert in your curriculum for example zarist Russia, pre colonial India, the immensely complicated history of China, precolombian America,  Ife civilization just to name only a few? Would you and how would you  talk about the non Christian religions that characterised most of the world civilisations? Would you privilege a derogatory narration that these were (and many still are) somehow lesser cultures because non judeo-christian?

I have always favored world history over US centric books. On the world stage the US is still very much the new kid on the block. 

I still have a long ways to go before I accumulate anything like the understanding that I need to write a history series. You are welcome to mock me all you want, but this has been a goal of mine since my childhood and I am doing everything I can to prepare myself for this, including specific training in research methodology and higher education.

3 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

He said it has a "socialistic slant" don't you know that commies and socialists eat children? This was a lie that circulated for a long time here, it was originated during fascism but some  propaganda repeated it for a long time after the end of the regime.

I have never heard this claim until now, it's easy to refute and mock somebody's position if you make a strawman out of it first.

Regarding verifying my identity I would be happy to participate in an unmasking if everyone would do me the honor of revealing their real name and verifying themselves. (I have no doubt FJ members will refuse.) So you shall have to keep guessing.

[Bretta]

 

 

 

@Gabe I am far more interested in how you view the role of woman and what kind of education you would give to your children. The history thing is after all theoretical. What kind of women do you want any potential daughters to be, and in what ways would you treat then differently from your sons, for example. 

[Gabe]

47 minutes ago, Bretta said:

 

 

 

@Gabe I am far more interested in how you view the role of woman and what kind of education you would give to your children. The history thing is after all theoretical. What kind of women do you want any potential daughters to be, and in what ways would you treat then differently from your sons, for example. 

I want my daughters (should I have any) to be mature, responsible, able to take care of themselves, healthy, successful and kind. I plan to treat my children very similarly during the first 10ish years and then begin to adapt training and encouragement to their fields of interest as they get older.

[Gabe]

8 hours ago, Destiny said:

I had a set of those too, and that line cracked me up.

I also read the entire encyclopaedia, and if you didn't see how whitewashed and gender biased that history was, then I don't really know what else to say.

If by whitewashed you refer to the fact that white people account for the majority of people represented as important in some way to our history. And gender biased because men are overwhelmingly in the majority as well. I am happy to agree with you.

The point where we disagree is where you see that as a problem to be corrected while I see it as a basic historical fact.

I am "white" the history of white European men is my history. I see no reason to be ashamed of that. There are shameful aspects to it which I intend to point out. But I am justly proud of my ancestors and of their culture.