Lori Alexander 13: Transformed and Still Judgey

[onemama]

6 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Yes, there is.  Lori actually has a point, but she carries it too far. No one should feel they have to put out on demand no matter how he or she feels. 

I had an 80-something year old lady tell me at my wedding shower many, many years ago, " Don't have too many headaches.".  She got it.  You can have times when you aren't up for it. Just don't make it a habit.  

Lori says do it no matter what.

Lori often has a point and carries it too far.  Being available to your spouse doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to be available to him (or her).  Not trying to control your husband doesn't mean you let him make every decision for both of you.  Not arguing over every issue doesn't mean you never discuss things until you find a middle ground.  Supporting your husband doesn't mean you never get to do anything for yourself. And on it goes.  

None of my business, but... could there be something else that's affecting your husband's desire?  In our marriage it was me who had no desire but there were (and still are, sometimes) problems that were affecting my desire.  

I hope you find the way out of this situation, whatever that may be.  

16 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Lori Alexander says:

January 6, 2017 at 4:13 pm

I seriously doubt they were at first, Phylla, but after time and their popularity (and the money they bring in), they are probably fine with it but I am not sure. They are most likely neglected as the women pursue their “ministry”.

Is that what happened to you, Lori?  Is that how you ended up teaching men? 

[molecule]

Instead of doing her usual Sunday copy-and-paste from Charles Spurgeon, today Lori write about verses in Philippians 4. She gives a process for learning the verses, and she talks about why these verses are important. 

Um, hasn't Lori been railing against women teaching non-Titus 2 parts of the bible?

You know those acronym things on FJ where hovering on the acronym gives you a little definition of the acronym? Maybe we need one of these, only instead of an acronym it would be for the word "hypocricy." And the definition could say "Lori Alexander."

[Hisey]

21 hours ago, Koala said:

Lori:

Translation:

 

Exactly! You are a great translator. It is these particular views of Loris that I feel are the most insane. She should visit a domestic violence shelter, or better yet, volunteer in one.

[Koala]

1 hour ago, molecule said:

Instead of doing her usual Sunday copy-and-paste from Charles Spurgeon, today Lori write about verses in Philippians 4. She gives a process for learning the verses, and she talks about why these verses are important. 

Um, hasn't Lori been railing against women teaching non-Titus 2 parts of the bible?

You know those acronym things on FJ where hovering on the acronym gives you a little definition of the acronym? Maybe we need one of these, only instead of an acronym it would be for the word "hypocricy." And the definition could say "Lori Alexander."

Lori Alexander:

Quote

From now on, when I teach things outside of Titus 2:3-5, I am going to have Ken look it over and make any changes he wants to it and then publish it as written by both of us or simply publish a male preacher of the Word's comments and give him credit as I am doing with my Roman's series. I have noticed that women much prefer my posts having to do with Titus 2:3-5 anyways!

She wrote that in May.

 

[Emilycharlotte]

I don't think I have ever seen anyone who is less capable of admitting mistakes than Ken and Lori. (And maybe Ken is worse than she is--she will at least admit that she made mistakes years ago. If he has ever acknowledged any errors, I missed it.)

I think they are both very limited in critical thinking skills. They hear something that sounds good to them on the surface and toss it out there on the blog, not realizing it contradicts something else they said, or is based on shaky theology/interpretation of scripture. Early on, if they had been humble and willing to listen to readers who raised concerns/questions, they had the opportunity to learn and grow in wisdom and understanding; instead, they felt compelled to prove their "rightness" on every issue, arguing themselves into corners and relying on, "If you disagree with me, you disagree with God" or the delete key when all else failed, and so they just keep getting worse and worse.

I think the thing that makes me craziest is their inability to see the difference between what the Bible actually says and their own interpretations/applications of what it says. Not sure if it is due to arrogance or ignorance or both, but it is what allows them to imbue statements like, "A submissive wife may share a concern with her husband one time but then must never mention it again"  with Biblical authority.  Even if we pretend we all agree that "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands..." means the husband is the leader/boss and the wife is to obey him, the Bible doesn't list specifics regarding exactly what that looks like.  Ken's  "ask once" rule is something that sounds reasonable to him, and I grudgingly admit he has the right to share this as advice to others who are trying to work it out, but  he has NO right to present it as God's ruling on the matter when it is his own made-up rule. 

 

 

 

 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

As if, Lori! Anyone here feel moved towards Christianity because of her integrity? LOL, Lori has done more to turn me off to the faith than anyone.

[purjolok84]

As if, Lori! Anyone here feel moved towards Christianity because of her integrity? LOL, Lori has done more to turn me off to the faith than anyone.

I'm still very much an atheist - Lori, you're going to have to turn up the integrity!

I will say though that she hasn't turned me off big salads ... but I'll bet you anything I make them better [emoji14]

[usmcmom]

4 hours ago, Emilycharlotte said:

I think the thing that makes me craziest is their inability to see the difference between what the Bible actually says and their own interpretations/applications of what it says. Not sure if it is due to arrogance or ignorance or both, but it is what allows them to imbue statements like, "A submissive wife may share a concern with her husband one time but then must never mention it again"  with Biblical authority.  Even if we pretend we all agree that "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands..." means the husband is the leader/boss and the wife is to obey him, the Bible doesn't list specifics regarding exactly what that looks like.  Ken's  "ask once" rule is something that sounds reasonable to him, and I grudgingly admit he has the right to share this as advice to others who are trying to work it out, but  he has NO right to present it as God's ruling on the matter when it is his own made-up rule. 

 

 

 

 

I've recently seen this "man is head of the household" doctrine backfire big time.  I am probably sharing too much but here goes.

I spent much of last week sitting in the hospital with a family member whose husband had experienced a dire medical trauma.  This couple is definitely of the "man leads, woman remains silent" bent and she was completely lost when it came to making decisions.  For medical treatment, thankfully, she said "do whatever you need to do to save him," but for other things, she was paralyzed.  She did not even know if she should eat in the cafeteria or leave to find a restaurant because she didn't know what her husband would want.  She refused to get a hotel room the first night because she could not clear it with her husband.  She would not let us tend to her car because she did not think that would please her husband.  He lay in critical condition and she could not bounce things off him.  This was more than just the emotional trauma of a medical emergency.  She really could not bring herself to "undermine" the leader of her home.  It took a mini intervention from me and a nun on the chaplain team to get her to act.  We told her "You are the leader of your family now because he is unable to lead.  You MUST do these things to keep yourself strong so that you can help him."  Her whole mindset had been flipped upside down.

It was a very eye opening experience (and heartbreaking) and it prompted my husband and me (who do not have a submissive marriage) to have a frank conversation that began with "Okay, if I am ever the one in critical condition, I hope you will do this, this and this to take care of yourself." 

 

[Koala]

56 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I've recently seen this "man is head of the household" doctrine backfire big time.  I am probably sharing too much but here goes.

I spent much of last week sitting in the hospital with a family member whose husband had experienced a dire medical trauma.  This couple is definitely of the "man leads, woman remains silent" bent and she was completely lost when it came to making decisions.  For medical treatment, thankfully, she said "do whatever you need to do to save him," but for other things, she was paralyzed.  She did not even know if she should eat in the cafeteria or leave to find a restaurant because she didn't know what her husband would want.  She refused to get a hotel room the first night because she could not clear it with her husband.  She would not let us tend to her car because she did not think that would please her husband.  He lay in critical condition and she could not bounce things off him.  This was more than just the emotional trauma of a medical emergency.  She really could not bring herself to "undermine" the leader of her home.  It took a mini intervention from me and a nun on the chaplain team to get her to act.  We told her "You are the leader of your family now because he is unable to lead.  You MUST do these things to keep yourself strong so that you can help him."  Her whole mindset had been flipped upside down.

It was a very eye opening experience (and heartbreaking) and it prompted my husband and me (who do not have a submissive marriage) to have a frank conversation that began with "Okay, if I am ever the one in critical condition, I hope you will do this, this and this to take care of yourself." 

 

This self enforced helplessness is so destructive to women.

I think we saw a hint of it in Lori when she played the helpless card during the fires that forced her to evacuate.  This is a woman in her mid-fifties.  She'd raised 4 children.  Why would she NOT know what to do in an emergency situation as obvious as a fire?  That's something most kids could tell you.  

But nope, they had to send her son-in-law to tell her that fetching her make up and moisturizers wasn't really a priority.

It's sad in some ways, because she honestly seems to think it's endearing (like Ken will somehow love her if she's feigns mindlessness and helplessness), but it's really just a drain on other family members who don't have time to be parenting a middle aged woman.  

If anything, she (as a Godly Mentor) should have been going around helping some of the stay at home moms or truly elderly people in the neighborhood, not sitting around waiting for someone to come collect her purse for her and drive her away.  

The phrase "too heavenly minded to be any earthly good" comes to mind.

[TeddyBonkers]

2 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

As if, Lori! Anyone here feel moved towards Christianity because of her integrity? LOL, Lori has done more to turn me off to the faith than anyone.

She's certainly made me more of a feminist! Thanks, Lori!

[molecule]

3 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

 

I wonder what happened that has made Lori suddenly start to list her sources. This is new.

[feministxtian]

If God-forbid, I'm ever the one in critical condition, my husband would be LOST. In a crisis, I'm the calm, rational one who spits out decisions and orders without blinking an eye. I fall apart later, in private (well, all except that time I lost my breakfast off the top of a parking garage). I'm used to taking charge when it comes to things like that. 

[TeddyBonkers]

@feministxtian, your husband and mine. I had to tell him what post office box number was ours when I was on vacation and he needed to check the mail. And THEN tell him where the checkbook was so he could pay the mortgage. 

I've got 3 life insurance policies on me, and I wonder if that's not enough...He would need a lot of help if anything ever happened to me. 

[feministxtian]

Just now, TeddyBonkers said:

@feministxtian, your husband and mine. I had to tell him what post office box number was ours when I was on vacation and he needed to check the mail. And THEN tell him where the checkbook was so he could pay the mortgage. 

I've got 3 life insurance policies on me, and I wonder if that's not enough...He would need a lot of help if anything ever happened to me. 

He figured out the mail box thing after I explained it to him. My poor hubby probably couldn't even find the grocery store without me reminding him how to get there. I love him to pieces but he is NOT a "command man" at all. Some of it is that I've been the "caretaker" for so long. Before he got sick, he worked three jobs...so he didn't have the time to deal with things. When he got sick, I stepped in because he just couldn't deal with everything. Now, I know I should relinquish control but I don't know how. It's a pretty unhealthy dynamic, but I don't know how to change it (not to mention, I'd have to get him to buy into that change too).

[Seahorse Wrangler]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

I've recently seen this "man is head of the household" doctrine backfire big time.  I am probably sharing too much but here goes.

I spent much of last week sitting in the hospital with a family member whose husband had experienced a dire medical trauma.  This couple is definitely of the "man leads, woman remains silent" bent and she was completely lost when it came to making decisions.  For medical treatment, thankfully, she said "do whatever you need to do to save him," but for other things, she was paralyzed.  She did not even know if she should eat in the cafeteria or leave to find a restaurant because she didn't know what her husband would want.  She refused to get a hotel room the first night because she could not clear it with her husband.  She would not let us tend to her car because she did not think that would please her husband.  He lay in critical condition and she could not bounce things off him.  This was more than just the emotional trauma of a medical emergency.  She really could not bring herself to "undermine" the leader of her home.  It took a mini intervention from me and a nun on the chaplain team to get her to act.  We told her "You are the leader of your family now because he is unable to lead.  You MUST do these things to keep yourself strong so that you can help him."  Her whole mindset had been flipped upside down.

It was a very eye opening experience (and heartbreaking) and it prompted my husband and me (who do not have a submissive marriage) to have a frank conversation that began with "Okay, if I am ever the one in critical condition, I hope you will do this, this and this to take care of yourself." 

 

My husband was rushed to hospital just before Christmas and although I am/was the one who dealt with the household stuff, those first few days were a complete mess as I struggled to deal with a seriously ill partner in ICU as well as our children finishing their school terms.  

I can't imagine how some-one who had never had or never needed to be the one who made the hard decisions would be able to function under such a stressful situation.

 

Please do take note of your conversation, @usmcmom. I'm now a widow and those words would have made it so much easier for me both while he was in ICU and now..

[Granwych]

1 minute ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

My husband was rushed to hospital just before Christmas and although I am/was the one who dealt with the household stuff, those first few days were a complete mess as I struggled to deal with a seriously ill partner in ICU as well as our children finishing their school terms.  

I can't imagine how some-one who had never had or never needed to be the one who made the hard decisions would be able to function under such a stressful situation.

 

Please do take note of your conversation, @usmcmom. I'm now a widow and those words would have made it so much easier for me both while he was in ICU and now..

I am so sorry to hear about your husband.  (((())))

[quiversR4hunting]

@Seahorse Wrangler I am so sorry about your husband. I hope you find a widows group and your children find a grief group for kids who have lost a parent. (I have 4 widow friends with minor children, all have found help widows and kid groups)

[Koala]

@Seahorse Wrangler I am so very sorry about the loss of your husband. 

[Jellybean]

I'm so sorry for your loss, @Seahorse Wrangler - that sounds so trite, as though my words could make even the slightest dent in your grief, but please take it as kindly meant.

One of my personal soapboxes is the issue of being prepared for serious illness and death. So much hurt and confusion could be avoided if we could just have a few (admittedly hard) conversations with loved ones. I'm of the opinion that everyone should have a will and an Advance Decision (with info about organ donation) at a minimum. Setting up power of attorney (that would apply only if one were no longer medically capable) is pretty straightforward here in the U.K., and reassures me that my affairs will be as simple as possible for those advocating for me during serious illness and left behind when I die.

Death/critical illness is traumatic enough for those left behind without legal fights about what I 'would have wanted' and whether life support should be continued or stopped (in my case, this is slightly complicated by the fact that I'm already on artificial - IV nutrition/hydration - that's my normal rather than one of those hypothetical bad outcomes). Legal fights over probate can be horrendous, especially for those whose relations are not legally recognised (e.g. if I were not married to my girlfriend/boyfriend), or if no-one knew how to find out about my savings accounts/property or stock holdings, etc. 

I know it sounds morbid, and that nobody really enjoys thinking about death, but I would rather face that certainty knowing that my loved ones will  have fewer worries because I took some time in my early 30s to be morbid and prepared. 

*cough* 

and im down off that box...sorry!

[louisa05]

My mother has a friend who lost her husband about six weeks after we lost my dad in the fall of 2015. This woman has been completely unable to function on her own. Her husband also died of cancer and while he was sick, she was still relying on him to take care of everything for her--managing bills, yard work, etc... She has constantly whined since he died about not having anyone to do certain things which she deems "men's work" and has fought with her sons because they won't come do all of that for her--stuff as simple as taking the car in for an oil change. About six months ago, she gave up and moved in with her daughter in another state. 

Meanwhile, my visually impaired mother has adjusted quite well and long before dad died, due to his illness, was coping with handling all kinds of things that this able bodied fully sighted friend of hers refuses to do herself. The only things my mom does not do herself are those which her vision limitations prevent her from doing. 

And the big difference between the two of them? My parents never got caught up in gender roles or believed in "biblical submission" while her friend and her husband were in a fundy church and practiced and preached all of that. The funny thing is that this friend openly said to my mother that without being their kind of Christian, my mother would not be able to handle grief and learn to cope. But she is the one that has managed and retained independence. 

[usmcmom]

1 hour ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

My husband was rushed to hospital just before Christmas and although I am/was the one who dealt with the household stuff, those first few days were a complete mess as I struggled to deal with a seriously ill partner in ICU as well as our children finishing their school terms.  

I can't imagine how some-one who had never had or never needed to be the one who made the hard decisions would be able to function under such a stressful situation.

 

Please do take note of your conversation, @usmcmom. I'm now a widow and those words would have made it so much easier for me both while he was in ICU and now..

I am so very sorry for your loss and can only imagine how raw your pain is. Please forgive me if my post added to your sadness. 

I will hold good thoughts for you as you walk this difficult path. 

[feministxtian]

50 minutes ago, Jellybean said:

One of my personal soapboxes is the issue of being prepared for serious illness and death. So much hurt and confusion could be avoided if we could just have a few (admittedly hard) conversations with loved ones.

YES!!! It made it so much easier to decide on end of life care for my mother knowing what her wishes were. It made the decision easier but it didn't make watching and waiting for her to die any easier. 

I've made sure my husband knows what my wishes are. He and I had that talk before his surgery...including what to do if they found cancer when they opened him up. It sucked but it helped. 

[molecule]

My husband was rushed to hospital just before Christmas and although I am/was the one who dealt with the household stuff, those first few days were a complete mess as I struggled to deal with a seriously ill partner in ICU as well as our children finishing their school terms.  
I can't imagine how some-one who had never had or never needed to be the one who made the hard decisions would be able to function under such a stressful situation.

I am so very sorry for your loss.

When my husband was hospitalized a few years ago, he was so medicated that he was unable to make decisions for a few days. I can't imagine dealing with everything (I had to make the call on whether to try a particular treatment for him) if I had no experience making decisions.

It's sad how biblical submission gets so twisted by some people.

[polecat]

9 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

My husband was rushed to hospital just before Christmas and although I am/was the one who dealt with the household stuff, those first few days were a complete mess as I struggled to deal with a seriously ill partner in ICU as well as our children finishing their school terms.  

I can't imagine how some-one who had never had or never needed to be the one who made the hard decisions would be able to function under such a stressful situation.

 

Please do take note of your conversation, @usmcmom. I'm now a widow and those words would have made it so much easier for me both while he was in ICU and now..

 

I'm so sorry, @Seahorse Wrangler . 

[Free Jana Duggar]

11 hours ago, Koala said:

This self enforced helplessness is so destructive to women.

I think we saw a hint of it in Lori when she played the helpless card during the fires that forced her to evacuate.  This is a woman in her mid-fifties.  She'd raised 4 children.  Why would she NOT know what to do in an emergency situation as obvious as a fire?  That's something most kids could tell you.  

But nope, they had to send her son-in-law to tell her that fetching her make up and moisturizers wasn't really a priority.

  

If anything, she (as a Godly Mentor) should have been going around helping some of the stay at home moms or truly elderly people in the neighborhood, not sitting around waiting for someone to come collect her purse for her and drive her away.  
 

I know, right?  I could not believe she was not even capable of grabbing important documents, packing a suitcase and driving away all by herself like a big girl.

My husband was engaged before me and that kind of BS is why he called the wedding off.  He was in the Air Force and had no time to parent a grown child.

That said, I don't mind the man being the leader (I want a man to be a man and not a wuss), but a woman should at least know how to care for herself and make decisions in case she had to in an emergency.