Whitney and Zach Bates- Part 2

[feministxtian]

On 1/31/2017 at 1:15 PM, JillyO said:

I will never understand why the fuck I need to have extra respect for people just because they are older than me. I have respect for every person, unless and until they prove to me that they don't deserve it. But I see exactly zero reasons to have special respect for my elders.

I grew up in the south...and yes, we call our elders ma'am and sir. That's the way it is. You're told from the time you're very little to respect your elders...

So...that's the way it is, that's the way I was raised and to this day I still say ma'am and sir to my elders and those who are in authority over me (like my boss) and I'm 52 years old. My children were raised the same way...and yes, saying ma'am and sir to your parents is also considered respectful. 

That's probably one of the things that outsiders don't understand about the South...we're raised to show respect. 

[choralcrusader8613]

I think there's a difference, though, between showing respect to one's elders/superiors and showing deference, which is how some people may see the "respect your elders" line. I was raised in the South, too, and if I am able to have kids, I will teach them to use yes (or no), ma'am/sir when appropriate. But too often (in my experience), I think Southern parents sometimes confuse respect for deference. I can't think of a specific example from my life, but when I do, I'll post it here.

I'm also not going to be like my parents and force any kids to call adults by Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. and a last name, even when the adult requests something different. Unless I consider the name to be so offensive that even I wouldn't say it, that rule seems pointless to me.

In my view, everyone deserves the same level of respect, but that respect is going to look different for each person. How I respect a 10 year old is not going to necessarily look the same as how I respect a 70 year old.

[Screamapillar]

Also from the South, and while, yes, I was taught to refer to all adults as "ma'am" and "sir" (though my parents never made me refer to them as "ma'am" and "sir"), I mostly heard "ma'am" from my Mom when I was doing something I wasn't supposed to. For example, walking up to the dog with safety scissors because I thought the dog needed a haircut = hearing "No ma'am!" When I just heard "No" I knew I was committing a minor offense, but "No Ma'am" was bad.

My parents never had us add Miss/Mr in front of adults' first names' and for that I'm thankful, because I've always thought that sounds really cheesy. If they were a familiar adult, like one of my parents' friends, I just called them by their first name. If they were a less familiar adult, like one of my Dad's colleagues, I called them Mr. LastName.

[choralcrusader8613]

11 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

When I just heard "No" I knew I was committing a minor offense, but "No Ma'am" was bad.

For me, if I heard my mom calling "Choral Crusader Lastname", I knew she was just trying to get my attention (usually to set the table lol). But if I heard "Choral Crusader!" in a loud voice, I was about to meet my Maker

[QuiverDance]

Since I started an unintentional shitstorm about "yes ma'am" and "yes sir," I feel it is important to disclose that I have this poster hanging in my living room:

[imokit]

The thing about sir/ma'am is that its not about respect.  Its about societal convention.  You do it because you're told to and its expected.

Respect is about behaviour not empty words.  Its looking people in the eye when they talk to you, its listening and responding appropriately to advice and requests.  Uhhaa followed by action is more respectful than yes ma'am followed by a child going off and getting distracted before doing the action.  Yet the Uhhaa kid will be judged by many people (especially  in the south) as worse behaved because the didn't signal properly.

Sometimes the sir/ma'am debate masks genuine issues of respect by saying well kids who do x are respectful and kids who don't aren't.  It makes it too easy (and can still be meaningless).

[Kelsey]

I grew up in the South and most of my family still lives there. I do not do the ma'am/sir thing nor Miss Cathy (or whatever). When other people do (or make their kids), it makes me feel uncomfortable. I would rather not speak to someone than be expected to call them Miss Angela or Mrs. Smith. 

[QuiverDance]

2 hours ago, imokit said:

The thing about sir/ma'am is that its not about respect.  Its about societal convention.  You do it because you're told to and its expected.

Respect is about behaviour not empty words.  Its looking people in the eye when they talk to you, its listening and responding appropriately to advice and requests.  Uhhaa followed by action is more respectful than yes ma'am followed by a child going off and getting distracted before doing the action.  Yet the Uhhaa kid will be judged by many people (especially  in the south) as worse behaved because the didn't signal properly.

Sometimes the sir/ma'am debate masks genuine issues of respect by saying well kids who do x are respectful and kids who don't aren't.  It makes it too easy (and can still be meaningless).

 

Thank you for saying this so well.  

 

 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

On 1/28/2017 at 2:07 PM, just_ordinary said:

I found it weird when she requested him to say "..., Mam." I get that it is a way of showing respect in USA/South USA but she is his mother. 

I thought you would not use it for parents or siblings. Feels so strange to me...

Even in the South, it's less common to use it with parents. The Duggars said in their book that they ask the kids to call them sir and ma'am, but either they dropped that a long time ago or TLC has always edited it out of the show.

[GoddessOfVictory]

9 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Even in the South, it's less common to use it with parents. The Duggars said in their book that they ask the kids to call them sir and ma'am, but either they dropped that a long time ago or TLC has always edited it out of the show.

The one instance I remember was Michelle telling Josie to come downstairs in the Israel birth episode (when they're looking for the crib to give to Jill) and Josie came running down the steps saying "Yes, ma'am!" However, I never really paid much attention to their use of it.

[DaniLouisiana]

I say "yes, ma'am" to my elder aunties all time and to my coysin who are waaaay older than me. My rule is if they babysat me, they're ma'am or sirs. Surprisingly it the Uncles who do not want to be sirred with the exception of a couple of vets. My kids do it to-they weren't taught it, just picked it up from me, I guess.

[JillyO]

17 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I grew up in the south...and yes, we call our elders ma'am and sir. That's the way it is. You're told from the time you're very little to respect your elders...

So...that's the way it is, that's the way I was raised and to this day I still say ma'am and sir to my elders and those who are in authority over me (like my boss) and I'm 52 years old. My children were raised the same way...and yes, saying ma'am and sir to your parents is also considered respectful. 

That's probably one of the things that outsiders don't understand about the South...we're raised to show respect. 

See, that's the thing that bothers me so much. I was raised to show respect too. Most people are raised to show respect. Not saying "ma'am" or "sir" doesn't mean a lack of respect. And in fact, saying "ma'am" or "sir" doesn't mean that one is being respectful either. So I find this insistance that "in the South, we are raised to show respect," with the constant implication that everyone else isn't, to be extremely rude.

[Jilli]

In my family using ma'am is looked down upon(seen as calling a woman old). Its considered disrespectful. Being respectful is shown by saying please and thank you. Just being overall polite.

I do say "yes, sir" to my father, but it's just another for, of yes, yeah, etc. to me.

[ophelia]

20 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

His curls are precious, but I can't help seeing JB when I look at Spurgeon.

I'll absolutely ignore your comment so that Spurgeon won't loose his cuteness ;-)

[front hugs > duggs]

If anyone watches Outdaughtered, the parents use ma'am to the little girls. Like if one of them is climbing on something they aren't supposed tom they'll say like "No ma'am Riley". 

I had never heard the Miss firstname before until I visited a friend in Wilmington, NC. It seemed proper, and I thought it was kind of cool in a way. But I 100% agree that respect is not just in the words you use, but mannerisms and language , etc.

[Carm_88]

Those bows though!  

[HarleyQuinn]

Are the bows getting bigger because those two babies look way more like their dads than their mothers?  

[front hugs > duggs]

I think Kaci's bow is bigger because she's wearing boy blue and they need to make sure people know it's a girl. I don't know what Brooklyn's excuse is....

[TuringMachine]

15 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Are the bows getting bigger because those two babies look way more like their dads than their mothers?  

I always thought it was to make their heads more "girly" since they didn't have hair yet  

Apparently my mom got some flack when I was a baby for putting me in a "boy" snowsuit. It was orange green and purple.

[fish_ca]

22 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I think Kaci's bow is bigger because she's wearing boy blue and they need to make sure people know it's a girl. I don't know what Brooklyn's excuse is....

In case you miss the bow there is a print on her dress (?) SWEET GIRL

[HarleyQuinn]

If they were both wearing grey onesies or something I probably would think they were boys tbh.  

[freethemall]

What's funny to be about the sir/ma'am discussion is that you'll have southerners going on about respecting people using terms like that and sometimes those same people turn around and say the most racist, homophobic, mysogynistic, and generally rude things. Not accusing anyone here of that, but more like some of the fundies we follow. It follows that faux Christian thing - someone like Michelle Duggar teaching her kids to respect people and say yes ma'am and call even their mother-in-laws Ms. Cathy (Jill!) But then turn around and talk about transgender people being pedophiles. Some respect there...

[wikinggirl]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Those bows though!  

I really really hate these bows. Poor babies. I think Whitney and Erin should try wearing them for a day or two and see if they like it. Probably not! 

[Melissa1977]

I wonder how they train those babies to not to touch/throw the bows. I mean, I'm not only talking about fundies, there are milions of babies with headbands in IG but in my real world, there's rarely a baby who accepts things on the head. I have a lot of friends with little girls and none of them use headbands, even the posh ones, because babies don't want it.

[actuallyjessica]

The babies may fuss about the bows after the picture is taken, of maybe they don't mind wearing them. I find the discussion about the bows to be more over the top than the bows themselves, but that may be just me. Plenty of little southern girls are in bows every day. It's the culture.