Jill, Derick, Israel and Santa- Part 22

[SportsgalAnnie]

3 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

I'm thinking he needs a foot to the ass, at this point.

If only it was that easy, he probably would go off preaching about turning the other cheek, he strikes me as a holier then though no matter what guy. I really feel bad for Izzy 

[goldengrove]

11 minutes ago, anotherone said:

Graphic alert...

 

I was with someone where a miscarriage happened unexpectedly.  Out of nowhere she started cramping very bad and just gushing blood, for hours. I mean everywhere. I won't go into any more detail than that, but let's just say, I cannot imagine how one would go about "recovering" a fetus in that situation. 

I can't either, but what I really can't believe is that they put everyone concerned through this, some of those kids were too young!  There is nothing wrong with a D&C to clean up after a miscarriage, and I'm sure it cuts down on infections that can be caused by something left behind.

(please correct me if that's wrong, you that work in OB know a lot more than I do about it)

[aurora_boo]

I actually think that Dirk's 'there is no santa' post was misunderstood. I think he was doing a sarcastic- 'life isn't as good as you think it should be' thing. He's had a massive disappointment somehow. 'Hey kids, santa isn't real' = 'life will fuck you over'

Something has been going wrong for them recently - as evidenced by Jilly's recent sad posts, and Dirk's 'marriage ain't all it's cracked up to be' stuff.

Either there's miscarriage involved, or they're realising that arranged marriages aren't necessarily happy marriages.

(Either way, I hope they both find some way to being happier than they both appear right now)

[Stormy]

34 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Yeah, it's not that they shouldn't mourn Jubilee.

If Derrick had said something along the lines of "We are thinking about and missing Jubilee. I wish I had gotten a chance to meet her. She will always be in our hearts..." I would not snark on that at all because a stillbirth or miscarriage is a deeply sad event that can cause ripples throughout the whole family, and it's normal and healthy to grieve.

The issue for me is that they always seem compelled to add some sort of anti-abortion political spin to anything they say about her. Even though her death had nothing to do with abortion, every time her name is mentioned, there's a good chance it's to make some kind of pro-life point. Even at her own funeral, it couldn't be just about her, there had to be an anti-choice agenda. 

My problem with it isn't them expressing sorrow about Jubilee, it's that it seems like they don't unless there's some kind of political motivation behind it. For all they talk about unborn fetuses being people, they don't seem to see Jubilee as one, they act like she's some kind of bizarre object lesson rather than a real family member.

Even Jill's chirpy post with Jubilee's photos was a whole lot better, even if the context was weird. It was actually about Jubilee (with no mention of abortion), with all the information Jill could possibly have about her. Even the blue eyes part was kinda sweet, even if it wasn't entirely accurate; she was trying to make it personalized and to connect to who Jubilee could have been, and it was very Jill.

Also, there's a bunch of trolls on the post now, which makes me really sad, actually.  >> https://www.instagram.com/p/BN4peajj5Yi/ Of all the places to debate the Duggars (on religion in general, to boot), they pick this occasion? Really? They're doing nothing to convince an already vulnerable Jill that the world isn't full of God-hating heathens. It pisses me off.

 

[Shadoewolf]

Graphic Alert!

As we were going through multiple miscarriages and a reproductive endocrinologist they wanted everything we could get as far as tissues and placenta etc. So when we learned our baby had died at 13 weeks they let me handle it at home. When the cramps and bleeding picked up bad enough, I was most comfortable on the toilet holding a towel to catch. One good push and water broke, and the fetus was lying on the towel. I freaked and ended up in the ER with a hemorrhage. Traumatic wasn't the word for it.  But my situation was unique too.

[hollyandivy]

Graphic alert

 

I had 3 miscarriages and two were accompanied by hemorrhaging while the last one was not. It was very quiet, and there was no problem to "find" the remains.  It was very sad in its own way....

[sophie10130]

Jesus Christ, I am so sorry you guys have gone through that. It makes me even more furious that Derick and the rest take what was probably an extremely traumatic time for Michelle and spin it into a political agenda. They are not caring or sympathetic in the slightest. Absolutely disgusting. They should be ashamed.

[Shadoewolf]

Thats why I get all up in arms when the pro-lifers try to pull out those "life-size" plastic replicas or use pictures of 20 week old fetuses then say they're like 14 weeks. Complete distortions of the truth.

[freedom_for_all]

That is one grainy photo and weird kiss. I've had first kisses with more passion than that kiss. But maybe I'm just a defrauding harlot. 

Can someone please wash Derrick's hair? The length doesn't bother me but if you are going to wear it long TAKE CARE OF IT. I'm sure Jill will loan you some shampoo if you ask nicely. 

[nausicaa]

My take on the whole "pro-life" thing when discussing Jubilee is that they are emphasizing that because life begins at conception, Jubilee in their eyes was a complete person, their daughter/sister/sister-in-law just as much as any of their fully grown relations, and therefore they intend to mourn her in the same way they would mourn an eighteen-year-old sister who died suddenly in a car accident. 

By emphasizing her humanity, they are highlighting how immoral an abortion is, since it is ending a fully formed life.

*Not my views, just my Fundie-translation speaking. 

[nst]

6 minutes ago, freedom_for_all said:

That is one grainy photo and weird kiss. I've had first kisses with more passion than that kiss. But maybe I'm just a defrauding harlot. 

Can someone please wash Derrick's hair? The length doesn't bother me but if you are going to wear it long TAKE CARE OF IT. I'm sure Jill will loan you some shampoo if you ask nicely. 

they seem to have become more hippy and less maintained all the while more insensitive to everything 

 

[freedom_for_all]

Just now, nst said:

they seem to have become more hippy and less maintained all the while more insensitive to everything 

 

 

Can't you be a clean hippy? I'm not talking daily showers even, that looks like a week without a hair wash. You can use baby powder as dry shampoo, and I bet they have baby powder in spades. 

[sndral]

It's Friday night after a long tough week at work & I'm sitting at home avoiding Christmas shopping & offer this scenario as fodder for dissection:

JB & M used birth control until they decided that Jesus caused the Caleb miscarriage because birth control was bad.

20+ years go by and their first daughter to marry gets pregnant on her honeymoon. After a never ending pregnancy she ends up delivering via c-section.

Jill & Derick then move to Zika infested Central America.

Heeding best medical practice & the very real Zika issue, they choose to delay pregnancy using some form of birth control (could be all natural.) Use of birth control could have been at headship Derick's insistence.

They come back to 'safe' Arkansas and stop using birth control expecting to get pregnant immediately just like last time & they don't, or they do, but Jill miscarries, just like Michellle did 20+ years ago after using birth control. Now Jill is blaming Derick's insistence on delaying pregnancy for her failure to get pregnant or her miscarriage.

Alternative scenario, SOS doesn't want Derick/Jill anymore and they can't find/finance another missionary gig & Derick is growing frantic and bitter because he's figuring out what a loser he is & Jill isn't pregnant and is frantic & bitter because that's all she knows to gain value in her world + Jessa is pregnant.

These two ran far away right after the Joshly molest scandal & may now be forced to interact with redeemed Joshly often which may create tension since Josh doesn't do contrite or humble very well. Of course if they can't get a mission gig they are back to being under JB's thumb after their freedom in Central America which may be problematic - sort of like when teenagers move home & have to go back to living under their parent's rules again.

[grandmadugger]

Something isn't right in the Dillard home.  Derrick is slowly going off the rails and Jill doesn't seem her chipper self.  I doubt a miscarriage is the reason. I think we would have known since they announced 6 minutes after they found out with Izzy. Maybe real life has smacked them in the face?  Like Derrick has said he needs a real job and Jill can't follow him around all day.  It's kind of sad really to watch. 

[Cheetah]

Maybe the SF airport post was him on the way to some sort of job interview on the west coast, and that job didn't work out.  

[19Kittens]

Graphic post warning.

 

a few weeks before I married Mr. kittens, I lost a fetus at around 13-14 weeks, I had no idea I was even pregnant because we were not trying, and I had been dieting and working out for the wedding and figured my cycle was fucked up due to stress. I started bleeding really heavily out of nowhere (which is common for me) and horrible cramps (also normal for me) I was out of tampons but my housemate had these massive granny pads I figured would suffice until my husband could get home with the car. a few hours of this goes by and I felt something slide out of me. I passed the whole fetus at once. I called my aunt who took me to the hospital. 

I'm pro choice myself but seeing that really fucked with my head for a while.

[marmalade]

11 hours ago, socalrules said:

When your comments make the Duggars seem normal and mainstream, something is wrong. I don't even get it. Their feet somehow look similar? I pretty much think most feet look similar. It's almost like he is actually mocking the Duggars. From womb to tomb?

Why didn't he just say he never got to meet her but he knows she was loved and wanted? 

I am on the something is up train. 

I'm beginning to think that Jill was pregnant, but they weren't going to announce until the show came back next month. This weeks' rash of twitter rants leads me to believe she might have miscarried (exlains her posts), then the Jubilee thing was right on top of it all. 

Let's see if they go back to Danger America now. If they weren't fired from SOS, a pregnancy would be the only excuse they have to have avoided the Missioncation Season. 

[actuallyjessica]

15 hours ago, twinmama said:

The only thing I can possibly see is that I think Jubilee had already died in the womb and Michelle didn't have a D&C, she waited around at home to pass the baby. Are pro-lifers against D&C's for no longer living fetuses though? I have no idea. Seems there's no life left to be pro in that sad situation.

Erin (Bates) Paine had a D&C.

I've miscarried naturally at home and had a D&C and they were both about as traumatic as the other. When a child is wanted, as soon as you find our you're pregnant you dream of the future and when that is taken away, you mourn that together with the loss of the life growing inside of you.

[RosyDaisy]

There are other reasons for a D&C that are not related to pregnancy.. I had one for diagnostic purposes.

[Snarkle Motion]

8 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Something isn't right in the Dillard home.  Derrick is slowly going off the rails and Jill doesn't seem her chipper self.  I doubt a miscarriage is the reason. I think we would have known since they announced 6 minutes after they found out with Izzy. Maybe real life has smacked them in the face?  Like Derrick has said he needs a real job and Jill can't follow him around all day.  It's kind of sad really to watch. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they've experienced a miscarriage but there is clearly more going on too. I think Jill doesn't have any identity now and she was used to being the center of attention. At first she was the most married, the most pregnant, the most godly, the future missionary wife! But all that isn't true anymore. How does she get back to earning the love and attention of her family and her lord so she can be rewarded with pregnancies? 

[grandmadugger]

7 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they've experienced a miscarriage but there is clearly more going on too. I think Jill doesn't have any identity now and she was used to being the center of attention. At first she was the most married, the most pregnant, the most godly, the future missionary wife! But all that isn't true anymore. How does she get back to earning the love and attention of her family and her lord so she can be rewarded with pregnancies? 

Lost identity could explain both of them.  Derrick no longer is an accountant and I'm guessing his dreams of forensic accounting are dead too.  Missionary work seems to be dead too. Jill disqualified him from doing what he was doing in Nepal and she clearly didn't handle Central America at all. 

It's really one of the most heartbreaking parts of fundamental beliefs. The narrowness of what a man or a woman can be sets both up for depression when they can't be that paint by numbers picture they are expected to be.  Both Jill and Derrick have massive potential but neither are able to reach full potential. 

[nst]

10 hours ago, sndral said:

It's Friday night after a long tough week at work & I'm sitting at home avoiding Christmas shopping & offer this scenario as fodder for dissection:

JB & M used birth control until they decided that Jesus caused the Caleb miscarriage because birth control was bad.

20+ years go by and their first daughter to marry gets pregnant on her honeymoon. After a never ending pregnancy she ends up delivering via c-section.

Jill & Derick then move to Zika infested Central America.

Heeding best medical practice & the very real Zika issue, they choose to delay pregnancy using some form of birth control (could be all natural.) Use of birth control could have been at headship Derick's insistence.

They come back to 'safe' Arkansas and stop using birth control expecting to get pregnant immediately just like last time & they don't, or they do, but Jill miscarries, just like Michellle did 20+ years ago after using birth control. Now Jill is blaming Derick's insistence on delaying pregnancy for her failure to get pregnant or her miscarriage.

Alternative scenario, SOS doesn't want Derick/Jill anymore and they can't find/finance another missionary gig & Derick is growing frantic and bitter because he's figuring out what a loser he is & Jill isn't pregnant and is frantic & bitter because that's all she knows to gain value in her world + Jessa is pregnant.

These two ran far away right after the Joshly molest scandal & may now be forced to interact with redeemed Joshly often which may create tension since Josh doesn't do contrite or humble very well. Of course if they can't get a mission gig they are back to being under JB's thumb after their freedom in Central America which may be problematic - sort of like when teenagers move home & have to go back to living under their parent's rules again.

serious question - why wouldn't SOS ministries want them - they are already part of that "group" why all of a sudden would they say no.   

and if SOS doesn't want them - there must be some other fake missionary somewhere ...or is SOS the BE All and End all of fake missionaries ? 

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

Lost identity could explain both of them.  Derrick no longer is an accountant and I'm guessing his dreams of forensic accounting are dead too.  Missionary work seems to be dead too. Jill disqualified him from doing what he was doing in Nepal and she clearly didn't handle Central America at all. 

It's really one of the most heartbreaking parts of fundamental beliefs. The narrowness of what a man or a woman can be sets both up for depression when they can't be that paint by numbers picture they are expected to be.  Both Jill and Derrick have massive potential but neither are able to reach full potential. 

I think that's the saddest part of fundie-dom. Given a proper education and a little more freedom, Jill could have gone to nursing school and become an RN who specializes in obstetrics or neonatal care. Had Derick not decided to do that wild goose chase in Central America, he could have worked his way up the ladder at Wal-Mart, become a CPA, and eventually worked his way into forensic accounting or due diligence. If they were both less fundie, I could see them doing Peace Corps as a married couple. I think Derick is starting to realize that pulling away from the "world" has meant pulling away from his own dreams and identity. I think Jill is starting to realize that she's never had the chance to build any dreams or identity beyond what her parents and TLC producers carved out for her.

[hasunah]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

It's really one of the most heartbreaking parts of fundamental beliefs. The narrowness of what a man or a woman can be sets both up for depression when they can't be that paint by numbers picture they are expected to be.  Both Jill and Derrick have massive potential but neither are able to reach full potential. 

Narrowness aside , I'm not sure if that isn't so much a fundie thing here as it's a Jim Bob Control thing . I mean, Prissy isn't living in her family's backyard , and she isn't falling apart .

[socalrules]

Jill may be stuck in the mindset of how she was raised but Derrick wasn't raised with that school of thought. Derrick isn't being held back by anyone or anything. If he wanted to find a real job he could. If he wanted to live a normal life he could. His one year of being a missionary doesn't disqualify him from that.

After the year of the scary shower racks, my guess is that Jill would be perfectly happy living near her family while Derrick goes back to a normal 9-5 job. She would likely let him spend lunch with his co-workers this time. The problem is that Derrick doesn't seem to want that. Derrick crosses me as a wanderer. He doesn't seem to want to be settled. He likely enjoys the freedom he had with only having to preach two days a week and no real responsibilities. We know Jill as likely always home with the baby.  In another life derrick awould probably be the person backpacking across Europe. Instead, he has a clingy wife and child at home and is likely being pressed to put down stakes when he would prefer to travel the world attempting to turn Catholic Christians into fundy Christians.