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Duggars by the Dozen: Part 24- Duggars, Duvets and stuff


samurai_sarah

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14 hours ago, MoonFace said:

Yeah, because you don't want to be distracted from prayer by having hand sex!   

Is that as good as elbow sex? (Asking for a friend.)

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8 hours ago, LadyCrow1313 said:

Is that as good as elbow sex? (Asking for a friend.)

I can't tell you how many times I played that scene as Magenta. I sometimes acted it out with my real-life brother as RiffRaff (he typically played Rocky) if our usual guy didn't show or was too wasted to get onstage. LMAO

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On 1/12/2017 at 10:28 AM, nst said:

that was the night supposedly before they got engaged so JB knew what was going to happen supposedly the next day 

Michelle just was insane 

I wonder if she screamed in her pillow every time Jinge and Jeremy got around each other 

I need to watch that scene again, because it seemed more to me, like M was reacting to her fear that it would upset JB.  Remember I think she looked at him right away and was like "is that ok Daddy?"  or something like that.  ANd then JB laughed and said its ok this time, because of course he knew ben was going to propose.

 

When M got back from her visit with Jinger the time they met Jeremy's grandparents and got engaged, Remember JB being all over her about did she do a good job chaperoning them.  M seemed like she just wanted to sort of gloss over it and just said something about it being hard to keep two magnets apart.  And then changed the subject.  I got the impression she was more understanding about them wanting to touch each other, and JB was sort of putting the blame on her for not watching them closely enough. 

And in Laredo,  JB seemed much more uncomfortable with Jinger and Jeremy sitting kind of snuggly on the sofa together.  Michelle didn't seem too bothered by it.  I think it was more about her wondering if she or the girl would be in trouble with big daddy.  (I do sort of wonder just how it came about that Jinger felt more empowered to be so physically affectionate with Jeremy compared to the other girls.  She is not that much older than Jessa was when courting.  I think it must be because Jeremy is older and a pastor.  I think with Jessa and Ben,  maybe JB didn't feel that a 17 year old boy could control himself as well as a 27 year old man could.  Or it is because they wanted to normalize their courting image this time knowing how odd most people find it.  I think JB will sacrifice his 'principals' to keep the show going because it offsets the cost of having to support 4 adult children and their spouses and children. )

 

Don't get me wrong,  Michelle is a nut job and I am absolutely mortified, how often she has placed the blame on how women dress as the cause for inciting men's uncontrollable urges, all the while knowing that her sexually deviant son has molested her daughters.  If that is not a direct way to tell those girls they are to blame in some way for Josh then I don't know what is.  Even if she doesn't mean it like that, the very fact that she has said it repeatedly shows an incredible if not malignant lack of sensitivity.  Imagine hearing that over and over as a 5 year old who was molested?  Wow talk about internalized guilt and shame. 

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This ^ is why I don't believe that the kids set their own courtship rules.    

Can you imagine the fire and brimstone that would come down upon the couple that says, "We're going to hold hands and front hug during out courtship? And we will seal our engagement with a kiss. "

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Possibly because J-B realised quite early on that Jeremy is his own man and would not let J-B intimidate him. Jeremy is also older than Ben and (seems to be) slightly more intelligent than Derrick. He wasn't J-Bs prayer partner before marrying Jinger either.

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30 minutes ago, calimojo said:

But then, why was Jinger give so much more latitude with their courting rules?

 

I don't think she was given it; I think she and Jeremy took it. I mean, realistically, what were Ma and Pa Duggar *really* going to be able to do about the rule-breaking? All of their trump cards (trying to call off the wedding, threatening to cut them both out of the family, and other equally dysfunctional tactics) are unusable because 1) Jinger's a grown-ass adult and they can't force her to stay at the TTH if she doesn't want to, and 2) taking any of those routes would cause a massive public blowup, further damaging the family brand.

 

Which is why JB was so impotently passive-aggressive towards Jeremy in so many videos. 

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It will be interesting to see who the rules are enforced with Joy.  If they are stricter with her then perhaps he modifies the rules based on the age of the daughter or their suitor.  If Joy is allowed as much 'freedom' as Jinger, then I suspect it is an attempt at normalization of the crazy, in an effort to appeal to more viewers. 

I have always believed that while JB may spout the gothard bullshit,  that  when it comes down to sustaining the family business,  JB puts that above his so-called principles.  Not that he does that consciously, but more that he is able to flexibly apply the principles to fit his decisions, because,  as we all know they are masters of doubletalk and BS.  Since most of their principles are dumb ideas of gothards to begin with they just more creative in how they interpret them, and twist them to support their decisions.  Just as he was able to twist the whole point of the show to fit into some sort of definition of a ministry.

2 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I don't think she was given it; I think she and Jeremy took it. I mean, realistically, what were Ma and Pa Duggar *really* going to be able to do about the rule-breaking? All of their trump cards (trying to call off the wedding, threatening to cut them both out of the family, and other equally dysfunctional tactics) are unusable because 1) Jinger's a grown-add adult and they can't force her to stay at the TTH if she doesn't want to, and 2) taking any of those routes would cause a massive public blowup, further damaging the family brand.

 

Which is why JB was so impotently passive-aggressive towards Jeremy in so many videos. 

Actually I think JB could still threaten many of those things and the kids would believe him.  I think if he absolutely forbade a marriage, that they would listen.  And I think if he threatened to cut them off financially they would listen.  I mean do we seriously think that if JB told Ben to drop Flame or he would kick he and Jessa out of the ranch home, and stop supporting them that they  would ignore him?  The only way the kids would ignore JB would be if they are willing to turn on him completely and sell their true live story to the media. 

 

Maybe there is something unique about Jinger.  Maybe being out from under Jessa's shadow, or the prospect of a life long SAHD like Jana, or with fewer kids her own age around she had more time to really see some truths about her parents,  or maybe your are right that JB new he couldn't control Jeremy. 

 

I tend to think it was more premeditated.  I think JB reads or has someone who reads places like FJ and other websites and I think he felt it was time to prove that the kids really do set their courtship rules.  And that he doesn't hand pick every spouse as has been postulated repeatedly.  I think this courtship was allowed more as a FU Internetz kind of thing.  Jinger benefited from it, but I don't think it was easy for JB to let it happen.  I think this is why he was such an ass in Laredo.  I don't think that JB gives up control easily, even something minor like letting his adult daughter sit and be cuddly with her intended. 

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3 hours ago, calimojo said:

I need to watch that scene again, because it seemed more to me, like M was reacting to her fear that it would upset JB.  Remember I think she looked at him right away and was like "is that ok Daddy?"  or something like that.  ANd then JB laughed and said its ok this time, because of course he knew ben was going to propose.

 

When M got back from her visit with Jinger the time they met Jeremy's grandparents and got engaged, Remember JB being all over her about did she do a good job chaperoning them.  M seemed like she just wanted to sort of gloss over it and just said something about it being hard to keep two magnets apart.  And then changed the subject.  I got the impression she was more understanding about them wanting to touch each other, and JB was sort of putting the blame on her for not watching them closely enough. 

And in Laredo,  JB seemed much more uncomfortable with Jinger and Jeremy sitting kind of snuggly on the sofa together.  Michelle didn't seem too bothered by it.  I think it was more about her wondering if she or the girl would be in trouble with big daddy.  (I do sort of wonder just how it came about that Jinger felt more empowered to be so physically affectionate with Jeremy compared to the other girls.  She is not that much older than Jessa was when courting.  I think it must be because Jeremy is older and a pastor.  I think with Jessa and Ben,  maybe JB didn't feel that a 17 year old boy could control himself as well as a 27 year old man could.  Or it is because they wanted to normalize their courting image this time knowing how odd most people find it.  I think JB will sacrifice his 'principals' to keep the show going because it offsets the cost of having to support 4 adult children and their spouses and children. )

 

Don't get me wrong,  Michelle is a nut job and I am absolutely mortified, how often she has placed the blame on how women dress as the cause for inciting men's uncontrollable urges, all the while knowing that her sexually deviant son has molested her daughters.  If that is not a direct way to tell those girls they are to blame in some way for Josh then I don't know what is.  Even if she doesn't mean it like that, the very fact that she has said it repeatedly shows an incredible if not malignant lack of sensitivity.  Imagine hearing that over and over as a 5 year old who was molested?  Wow talk about internalized guilt and shame. 

I clearly remember Michelle having issue with it the last supper dinner re Ben and Jessa.  And why should Ben have embarrassed that he take the lead there....  Even though she must have known that Ben asked permission to ask to marry her. JB seems the more tolerant to a degree whereas Michelle is just downright insane.   The football episode comes to mind - Jessa and Ben had that intense moment after and Michelle in and out of camera range was trying to break them apart and that was the day before the wedding.... now I wonder she didn't go further with Jinger when it was so blatant with Jeremy.   It was beyond what we ever seen.  Michelle was a normal teen - she just installed fear into her children.  

 Jessa, was the most restrained one of of them all, whether it was her personality which I think it was or because she didn't know how to act or who knows.  Jinge I think followed Jeremy's clues or dues - whereas the others were more afraid because it was so new - just imagine Josie 14 years from now. ...

To have Michelle as a mother must be awful 

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Like I said, I haven't seen the episode in a long time but I just have this memory of Michelle reacting strongly, but looking at JB as she expected him to be upset. 

 

I agree having Michelle as a mother is probably pretty bad.  On occasion,  I think that JB seems to be more genuine with his kids.  The wedding episodes for example always seem to point out just how disconnected Michelle is where as JB's mixed feelings at giving away one of his possessions seems pretty genuine. 

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Michelle said something about it not happening again when Jill and Derick front hugged after he came back from Nepal. I also remember JB getting in between them when Derick put his arm around Jill.

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On 12/10/2016 at 11:54 AM, Gillyweed said:

I have a family member who was spoiled in a similar way to Josie. Before her, her parents had a baby who died when he was a few months old, and then they had trouble having another baby so they adopted a baby girl. They gave her everything she wanted, and now, as an 18 year old, she's dealing with the reprecussions. She was never motivated to try in school and she gets super upset when things don't go her way (when she declared she wanted to lose weight, another family member told her that fad diets wouldn't do much, but eating healthy and excercising would help long term, she got pissed and stormed off). Being doted upon is all she's known and she basically refuses to be treated any differently.

Of course, there's a very good chance Josie won't end up like that. I'm just pointing out that she might not be embarrassed because it's all she's known, like the girl I mentioned. It's weird because while Josie is doted upon, she still is a girl in the fundie world. Yet, I can't picture her being forced to be a j'slave like her sisters. 

Seems to be also a "baby of the family" deal as well. My SIL is a nightmare! At age 20 she will get into screaming matches and slam things when she fights with her BF. My MIL will pick up the phone after SIL is done screaming at him and also yell at him. SIL and BF live together which makes it more awkward. They all came to my house the one night and MIL pulls me aside and says "Could you say something to SIL she's lost 25 pounds? Just tell her she looks nice." I'm sorry but that's crazy to have mommy make the world perfect for you when you are a grown adult. Husband tells me she was a terror as a child and teenager and he spent much of his time avoiding her because she was so babied. Talk about setting your child up for failure which seems to be the Dugger MO. 

On 12/12/2016 at 4:25 PM, Mela99 said:

Tyler has been popping up in more of the family pictures. I don't remember if anyone discussed it before, but do you think Mullet and Dim Wit pulled him out of public school and homeschool him now? I'm thinking back to my GAL internship and wondering how well that would go over with the judge. I hope not. Hard enough being without parents. Imagine losing all your connections to the life you once knew. 

rename him Jyler LOL

On 12/13/2016 at 5:26 PM, Chickenbutt said:

Since the courts are involved in the placement of him, wouldn't he have a GAL/social worker/someone to watch over him for the next little bit? Maybe the Duggars will have to prove their homeschooling plan, curriculum, statistics, test results etc. I really have no idea how it all works, but I would like to believe there is someone watching over him in all aspects of his life.

I was home schooled and my state required proof every few years. Some states require no proof so I'm betting that Moob and Boob are not proving anything to AK. After all they refused to cooperate with child services. I'm frankly surprised they were awarded custody after Josh and all.

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On 12/19/2016 at 1:23 PM, Analytica49 said:

I just saw this. I THOUGHT I could not be more appalled by Jim-Boob and MEEE-chelle, but this video pushes my disgust for them out to new frontiers.

Whatever is going through Jordyn's mind, she clearly does NOT have any interest in standing in front of that crowd of a bajillion noisy relatives while her gestator raves about Jordyn's conformity to gender roles.

Jordyn expresses no connection whatsoever to her gestator. She never smiles. For almost the entire speech, she does not even look at MEEEEchelle. For all I can tell, she might not even be bothering to listen.

But I do wonder about the accuracy of MEEE-chelle's statements that Jordyn is always willing to jump in and help, and loves to carry little babies on her hip. I strongly suspect that Jordyn is given no choice whatsoever about helping and carrying babies. That is simply Jordyn's assigned role in life.

It makes me so angry that she is being pushed in that direction.

If I wanted to talk about my children's wonderful characteristics, I would talk about their interests, their accomplishments, their activities, their sports, what they like to learn .... I would NOT focus, as MEEEEchelle does, on how the  child acts as a servant for the family--probably because I did not raise my children to be servants.

I loathe J-B and MEEEchelle.

 

I don't have kids, but I cannot imagine literally handing MY baby over to an 8 year old CHILD. I know several of them and YIKES. 

 

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On 12/22/2016 at 2:31 AM, Season of life... said:

I absolutely agree; it was after watching a Duggar dental visit I began to question their family circus.

I still remember the look on Jill's face as she was about to be sedated when she and Jana had their wisdom teeth out. She was freaking, absolutely terrified of the needle and procedure. She reached out for her dad for comfort. She asked for comfort from a man who, a year or so in the future, would once again force his needle-phobic daughter into a traumatic situation--for filming purposes--by making her give blood after Josie's birth. 

She CLUNG to JB, and he actually had to shake her off. Afterward, he likened her grip to that of "a cat".  Jill was beyond being reasoned with, which made for some dramatic footage for TLC. When discussing her daughter's fear during a TH, Michelle was her usual cold self, and kind of chuckled at Jill's fright. I believe JB really was upset for Jill, but not enough to restore her dignity by removing the camera. If he can't care enough about a child he clearly favors, what chance do the others have of feeling respected as individuals instead of film fodder?

This episode was also when I lost some sympathy for Jana, because she kind of laughed at Jill and said something along the lines of, "It must have been very bad for her." The smirk on her face and snide laugh was anything but sympathetic. Sibling solidarity, thy name is not Duggar.

Jill is not a favorite of mine, but I think I can understand one reason why she is so clingy with Derick. Coming from a family where no one has anything much to their own name, very few private treasures, and no personal clothing, he is entirely hers.  

This is so accurate. I come from emotionally stunted stock myself and my first year of marriage I had random episodes where I would cry and cling to my husband. I ended up in therapy over it because it scared me and him. Our tiffs were always magnified in my mind. Came to find through therapy I was afraid if I upset husband he wouldn't show me any affection like mom and dad. And I have to say this much about surgery. I have been punched in the face, I am famed for being tough/having a high pain tolerance, ect. When I have to go under anesthesia I bawl like a little baby and they have to sedate me before they can put me under. I hate the feeling of loosing control of my consciousness. 

On 12/22/2016 at 1:52 PM, Buzzard said:

That would seriously annoy me if I were there.  I'd probably go out of my way to look at whatever clothing they were standing in front of and ask them to move.  If you're going to disrupt a store I'm gonna need to to 1) know the words and 2)sing on key.

It looks like the Walmart employees are blocking people from getting too close.  Thats pretty strange.

Which J'child's hand is Joy holding onto?

Look at the lack of enthusiasm on their faces? I thought Flash Mobs made people excited!?!

On 12/22/2016 at 3:04 PM, Analytica49 said:

This is all kinds of hideous.

First, aren't flash mobs usually supposed to be, I don't know, somewhat entertaining? Don't they usually present GOOD singing? Aren't they supposed to be on key, and have harmonies that are beautiful, not grating, to the ear?

Second, almost no one cared. Most people just went about their business and ignored them.

Third, these people have a lot of nerve singing only religious songs. What about people who are not Christian? Or who are secular Christians? Do we have to have Baby Jesus imposed on people whether they like it or not?

And fourth, the Duggars themselves are KNOWN for their wasteful consumption. To me there's something bitterly ironic about the idea that they are singing religious songs in a temple of commerce that they themselves--I'm sure--frequently patronize.

No secret Walmart employs third world slave labor. You are absolutely right. Was thinking more along the lines of this?

 

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On 12/22/2016 at 10:21 PM, grandmadugger said:

I wondered that myself. My guess is Christians who aren't fundies. 

Secular Christians to me are Christians that look and act like the rest of the world and believe the core of the Bible's message that Jesus died for us but their worship services have contemporary "pop inspired" worship songs and usually secular churches encourage LGBTQ inclusion whereas traditional Christians or conservative Christians demand "Sunday best" dress, sing hymns, and do not deviate from the Bible. Yet they always make exceptions for "special" circumstances.

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On 1/6/2017 at 3:29 PM, nst said:

again all interchangeable 

 

I am waiting for the day Jessa says and my brother Jyler 

why is Jill always the one who complains about morning sickness when Jessa never does 

Because Jill wakes up in the morning, rolls over and looks at Joe Dirt..I mean Derrick. I'd throw up too!

On 1/7/2017 at 10:36 AM, Bad Wolf said:

My FIL told me my morning sickness was in my head. Other than that, he was a great guy.

I think I'd snap. Like cut my foot off to spite my nose snap. I think I would have said "Then having anything to do with your grandchild is in your head." What business is it of a man to comment on pregnancy. Unbelievable. In laws thinking they have a say...how funny...

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On 1/10/2017 at 0:28 AM, calimojo said:

that is an absolutely terrible picture.  Who does this kind of work and considers it good?  Joe has a shirt about 3 sizes too big.  Their poses all look so contrived as if to say "look how zany and fun we are".  Somehow they managed to make Jana, who is petite and slender look stocky, JD looks odd, Derick Looks like he is holding Jill back from throwing herself off a cliff, It is a terrible pic of Austin and Joy, and ugh,  just sooooo bad all the way around.  The only bright spots are Jeremy has on decent pair of jeans and we see Jinger's knees peeking out.  Otherwise this picture should be used in Marketing and PR classes as a "what not to do". 

The boys on both ends are tragically unattractive! WOW!!!

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2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I also remember JB getting in between them when Derick put his arm around Jill.

I don't think he had asked her to court yet.  JB was just protecting his property at that point.

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7 hours ago, calimojo said:

But then, why was Jinger give so much more latitude with their courting rules?

 

this is the biggest question - I have - i have to assume - jeremy didn't want to be like the others and jinge just followed suite and wasn't so afraid as the other two namely jessa. 

unless something happened behind the scenes between her and her parents - they would never show that- 

because that part is the cult part. 

but if someone truly knows I am dying to know because it was overt and obvious 

7 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I don't think she was given it; I think she and Jeremy took it. I mean, realistically, what were Ma and Pa Duggar *really* going to be able to do about the rule-breaking? All of their trump cards (trying to call off the wedding, threatening to cut them both out of the family, and other equally dysfunctional tactics) are unusable because 1) Jinger's a grown-ass adult and they can't force her to stay at the TTH if she doesn't want to, and 2) taking any of those routes would cause a massive public blowup, further damaging the family brand.

 

Which is why JB was so impotently passive-aggressive towards Jeremy in so many videos. 

do we even know that those were the trump cards? was it ever said out loud - apart from Michelle spouting whatever she spouted about when Ben moved in (but again Ben is /not jeremy) - 

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3 hours ago, nst said:

But then, why was Jinger give so much more latitude with their courting rules?

I think it may have been a combination of things...Jeremy is a grown-ass man. He knew the boundaries and wasn't going to go past them. He may have told Jinger that her parents were ridiculous (or Jinger may have said something) and they decided to make their own rules which were pretty tame all things considered...I mean, it's not like they "swapped spit" or did the horizontal bop before he put that ring on her finger...

Then there's the sermon Jeremy preached about legalism...that was a total fuck you to J'boobhovah. 

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2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

I think it may have been a combination of things...Jeremy is a grown-ass man. h. 

Yeah. I think Jeremy, who self-admittedly had never done the courting thing before, just kinda took the lead. For him, putting his arm around his girlfriend/fiance is normal. Even if he knew about the no kissing rule, which I am sure he did, he probably didn't think anything of hugs or closeness. I think Jinger followed suit, and Michelle and JB just dealt with it because (1) Jeremy is a real adult (2) Jeremy and Jinge marrying brings them more views and money (3) Jeremy made it clear that he was not under their thumb (with the whole not engaging JB's stupid questions and realistically - what are they gonna do about it? I think if one of the kids kissed a suitor, we'd see a real problem... the hugs and such, not so much,

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Women are chattel in this culture. Like the daughters' sexuality was undervalued in the Josh scandal, JB was willing to allow some pieces of Jing's heart to be sacrificed to Jeremy in the courtship process. The money train was leaving the station and Jinger had to "put out" to save the brand. I think THIS is why JB and Michelle looked the other way.

Jinger's courtship and wedding  appeared more "mainstream" but the backstory is more sinister. JB pimps out his kids for $$$$$. Joy's courtship is the next piece of his plan.  With that said I can't help but wonder how Jana has escaped...she's either stronger than we think to avoid courtship, OR so enslaved in her "cinderjana" narrative....

 

My point is Jinger's situation appears as if JB/ Michelle are loosening up....but are they? I don't think so. 

 

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I think Joy's courtship rules are probably the strictest, given Austin's parents. I mean, they don't allow closed doors in their home, so... I'm willing to bet she's having the rougher road.

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3 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

Women are chattel in this culture. Like the daughters' sexuality was undervalued in the Josh scandal, JB was willing to allow some pieces of Jing's heart to be sacrificed to Jeremy in the courtship process. The money train was leaving the station and Jinger had to "put out" to save the brand. I think THIS is why JB and Michelle looked the other way.

 

 I more or less agree with the bolded, just because I have faith that JB and his family are seriously faithful to their "religion," but more so to fame and TV money. Everything from Jinger's loosely goosey courtship to Joy's likely strict as hell one is a ratings grab. They saw that their "normal" is easily played out after the first three weddings.

I also think theis is corroborated by Amy's trashy boot camp debut. It used to be JB telling TLC "jump" and TLC saying "how high," but I suspect that relationship is rapidly switching places. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a "Breaking Duggar," but only after every drop of juice is squeezed from "Counting On."

Nice username, by the way! :my_biggrin:

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