The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[formergothardite]

@Gabe, before you come back and talk about vitriol, I would suggest you check out the posts on the old Yuku site about and towards Kristina. Everyone has been positively sunshine and butterflies to you, especially compared to how(and I'm including me in this) we responded to her. She never even brought up that she need to draw up rules and conditions. I give @3_and_counting a hard time but I have a hell of a lot of respect for her. 

 

[Palimpsest]

@formergothardite, I don't think he has to go all the way back to yuku, she came and yelled at us here not all that long ago.  She set a valid boundary that she wasn't going to discuss her bother's marriage - and stuck to it.  Good for her.

BTW, Kristina was MakestheDuggarsDirty on yuku, if that makes it easier for people to search.

1 hour ago, Gabe said:

I had sent my darling wife away on a girls Christmas shopping trip last time I came for a visit,

I do hope you included return postage and that she wanted to go.  Sorry, pet peeve of mine.  I don't think my dear husband has "sent" me anywhere in over 37 years of happy marriage.

[Gabe]

16 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I do hope you included return postage and that she wanted to go.  Sorry, pet peeve of mine.  I don't think my dear husband has "sent" me anywhere in over 37 years of happy marriage.

Words, words it's all in the words.

I, the great horrible fundie man of the house who must decree everything, sent my wife like a package in the mail to go shopping for her own good She had no say in the matter it was all my decision.
 

(I hope the sarcasm is obvious)

 

[formergothardite]

13 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't think he has to go all the way back to yuku, she came and yelled at us here not all that long ago.  She set a valid boundary that she wasn't going to discuss her bother's marriage - and stuck to it.  Good for her.

That is true, but in my memory the Yuku ones were very, very harsh.

"Sending" her away on a shopping trip is such an odd thing. I know it is just a phrase, but still, why would one have to "send" their wife on a shopping trip unless it was something she hated and if she hated it why send her? Why word it that way @Gabe? I guess it sounds less flowering to say "My wife went on a shopping trip with some friends and I was bored so I decided to post on FJ right up until they asked some pointed questions that I was in no way prepared to answer." 

2 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Words, words it's all in the words.

Words do have meanings and on the internet it typically is all about words and what they mean. 

[Palimpsest]

Yes, words do have meaning and, as I said, that phrase is a pet peeve of mine.  I don't "send" my husband anywhere either.  He decides to where he wants to go. 

10 minutes ago, Gabe said:

(I hope the sarcasm is obvious)

The defensiveness even more so.

[snarkysally]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

That is true, but in my memory the Yuku ones were very, very harsh.

"Sending" her away on a shopping trip is such an odd thing. I know it is just a phrase, but still, why would one have to "send" their wife on a shopping trip unless it was something she hated and if she hated it why send her? Why word it that way @Gabe? I guess it sounds less flowering to say "My wife went on a shopping trip with some friends and I was bored so I decided to post on FJ right up until they asked some pointed questions that I was in no way prepared to answer." 

Words do have meanings and on the internet it typically is all about words and what they mean. 

One could draw negative meanings from just about anything if one is determined to do so, and most here clearly are.

It's just a thing people say. Last spring, I sent my husband and son off on a boy scout camping trip, with lots of homemade snacks to boot. I assure you they were quite willing.

At some point the nitpicking just gets ridiculous.

And to the pp who mentioned one size fits all as an argument against homeschooling, it really doesn't get more "one size fits all" than public school where every child is taught the exact same curriculum in the exact same way.

[Gabe]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

"Sending" her away on a shopping trip is such an odd thing. I know it is just a phrase, but still, why would one have to "send" their wife on a shopping trip unless it was something she hated and if she hated it why send her? Why word it that way @Gabe? I guess it sounds less flowering to say "My wife went on a shopping trip with some friends and I was bored so I decided to post on FJ right up until they asked some pointed questions that I was in no way prepared to answer." 

It's an odd thing to say for you perhaps, but for me it's quite normal. From what little you know of me you should know by now that I enjoy a little dramatic flair, I have a taste for whimsy and flowery language is my bread and butter.

If you want the plain version of it. She was invited to go, asked me if she could go and I said "of course, darling" (yes I literally said darling )

Regarding the hard questions... (or at least one of the ones you asked) I don't have a plan for preventing abuse of homeschooling simply because that is not something which I am focusing on in life. I have tailoring and fashion history and a day job to keep track of. I can develop an answer from Libertarian political theory and my Biblical beliefs regarding how I think it should be handled, but I would really rather not set myself up as an expert on something until I do my research on it.

15 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

The defensiveness even more so.

Heads you win, tails I lose. If I defend something I am defensive (literally true, though I'm not sure why it usually comes across as a pejorative) and if I fail to defend something I have run away with my tail between my legs...

[Four is Enough]

And that is a difference I ponder. "She asked to go and I said, "of course, darling""... at my house, I tell my husband that I'm off to the shopping plaza, and I ask if he wants anything.  Why does she need your permission to go out, Gabe?

[Gabe]

1 minute ago, Four is Enough said:

And that is a difference I ponder. "She asked to go and I said, "of course, darling""... at my house, I tell my husband that I'm off to the shopping plaza, and I ask if he wants anything.  Why does she need your permission to go out, Gabe?

She doesn't. We only have 1 car though, so planning who has it, and where people are is important logistically.

She doesn't ask me every time she goes out, Only when it falls outside of a routine that works for us. 

[formergothardite]

48 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

And to the pp who mentioned one size fits all as an argument against homeschooling, it really doesn't get more "one size fits all" than public school where every child is taught the exact same curriculum in the exact same way.

If I remember correctly the "one size fits all" point was about how Gabe admitted the style of teaching his parents used didn't work with some of his siblings, which is no better than public school refusing to adapt to a child's needs. But I would like to point out that there are cases where public school does adapt to learning styles, it isn't universal in all schools, but adapting to a child's learning style isn't universal in homeschooling either. Lots of homeschooled children are forced into "one size fits all" education boxes.

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Regarding the hard questions... (or at least one of the ones you asked) I don't have a plan for preventing abuse of homeschooling simply because that is not something which I am focusing on in life. I have tailoring and fashion history and a day job to keep track of. I can develop an answer from Libertarian political theory and my Biblical beliefs regarding how I think it should be handled, but I would really rather not set myself up as an expert on something until I do my research on it.

So the answer to "Has anyone in your group discussed how to protect homeschool students while they were discussing how to keep the government out of homeschooling families" is "No"? Have you thought about why that is?  It is clear you haven't researched. I'm not saying that to be mean, it was just pretty obvious that you have only looked at anti-government propaganda. But the lack of homeschooling laws result in parents being able to easily neglect their children without anyone noticing.If you are willing to say the government needs to stay out of it(which you were) then you should also be willing to put in the research into how homeschooling children should be protected. 

NC has a pretty hands off approach to homeschooling and I can tell you how that goes. No one actually knows when little Erica Parsons was murdered by her parents because they used  homeschooling to keep her isolated. Once you register(and her parents registered as Parsons Christian School) NC doesn't keep track of anything. She was reported missing by her step brother in 2013, but probably died before 2011. So that is how the government staying out of everything works for abused children, so as long as you are going to maintain that there needs to be less government regulations, you should start thinking about how to protect all the children like Erica. 

If the government staying out of homeschooling means a homeschool kid can be murdered and no one will even notice, that approach isn't working. 

[EmiGirl]

35 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

And that is a difference I ponder. "She asked to go and I said, "of course, darling""... at my house, I tell my husband that I'm off to the shopping plaza, and I ask if he wants anything.  Why does she need your permission to go out, Gabe?

Meh,  I run it by my husband if it's an evening or of I have to leave the animals with him while he's workng from home just to make sure we didn't already have plans or it would be an inconvience for him to have them around. It's more of a courtesy. Especially since I sometimes don't remember if we had previously made plans.I give him a pass on this, especially since they only have 1 car.

[Chickenbutt]

Can someone point me to Part One thread of the Boyer sisters please? I can't find it. Thank you.

[halcionne]

On 12/5/2016 at 2:46 PM, Destiny said:

Continued from here: 

 

@Chickenbutt

[formergothardite]

I have heard more people in NC start talking about our homeschooling laws since the Erica Parsons case. I think most people just assumed there was some oversight and were quite surprised to find out that our lack of homeschooling laws means you can murder you kid without it being noticed. 

 HSLDA has been working hard to chip away at any protection for homeschool children. Their goal is to protect parents, not children. Not that long ago in NC you had to at least submit yearly test scores, but that is now gone so there is nothing now to hold homeschooling parents accountable. 

[Chickenbutt]

@halcionneThank you. I guess I will be falling down that rabbithole now.

[Gabe]

34 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

If I remember correctly the "one size fits all" point was about how Gabe admitted the style of teaching his parents used didn't work with some of his siblings, 

If I may pick you up on a small point here, the style of schooling that worked for me didn't work as well for some of my siblings. What I failed to mention is the fact that my parents adapted as much as they could, for each of us. It's fascinating how much you assume you know about us based on a few thousand words (or less, I didn't count)

Quote

So the answer to "Has anyone in your group discussed how to protect homeschool students while they were discussing how to keep the government out of homeschooling families" is "No"?

 

No. The answer is yes, We did discuss it.

Quote

 

 

[DaisyD]

4 minutes ago, Gabe said:

No. The answer is yes, We did discuss it.

And the result of that conversation was?

[hollyandivy]

19 minutes ago, EmiGirl said:

Meh,  I run it by my husband if it's an evening or of I have to leave the animals with him while he's workng from home just to make sure we didn't already have plans or it would be an inconvience for him to have them around. It's more of a courtesy. Especially since I sometimes don't remember if we had previously made plans.I give him a pass on this, especially since they only have 1 car.

I agree, it is the same at our house.  If I go somewhere on my own I run it by my husband as well, as I will leave him with three kids.  He might have made other plans, or I forgot a previous engagement or what not. I think it is just common courtesy, especially when you share  a car!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I may be guilty of "sending" Mr laPG to "quel paese" or somwhere more colourful (quite unpolite way to tell him to fuck off) sometimes .

Sometimes I also send him to the playground with his daughter (technically ours but in those moments she's only his), usually when I can't stand the both of them one more minute. The thing is he too can "send" me and there are no more guarantees that I'd go than when I send him.

I have no problem with the use of the verb "send" both in an affectionate and in a snarky way. But when it comes from a self professed advocate of conplementarian marriage (fancy way to say patriachy) it sounds a bit creepy. Glad to hear that your wife can come and go as she pleases @Gabe,  but no cookies for not behaving like a Taliban.

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Gabe said:

If I may pick you up on a small point here, the style of schooling that worked for me didn't work as well for some of my siblings. What I failed to mention is the fact that my parents adapted as much as they could, for each of us. It's fascinating how much you assume you know about us based on a few thousand words (or less, I didn't count)

Well it is your fault for writing it is such a way that implied that your parents used a homeschooling style for your siblings that did not work for them. We have to go by what you write and you never gave any indication that your parents switched teaching styles. 

7 minutes ago, Gabe said:

No. The answer is yes, We did discuss it.

So, don't leave us hanging here! What did people say about protecting homeschooling children from abuse and neglect(including educational neglect)? They come up with some sort of a plan to prevent the Erica Parsons from happening? 

[DaisyD]

Around here it goes like this:

"Do you have anything going on on x day? I've got this planned."

If it's a conflict we work it out together. No one's plans take precedence (unless it's a required activity like work) and no one is asking permission. Why would either one of us ask permission? We're adults for crying out loud.

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, Gabe said:

If I may pick you up on a small point here, the style of schooling that worked for me didn't work as well for some of my siblings. What I failed to mention is the fact that my parents adapted as much as they could, for each of us. It's fascinating how much you assume you know about us based on a few thousand words (or less, I didn't count)

No. The answer is yes, We did discuss it.

 

You have to understand something Gabe when it comes to online forums. Words are all we have! No body language to read! No voice inflection to listen for! Nothing else but words and punctuation! So be as clear as possible with your words. No one knows you from Adam. So be clear. This is advice frommetoyou. This isn't me nagging or being snarky. It's something everyone has to learn on Internet forums.

BTW, I'm calling today Fundie Mondie ;-)

[snarkysally]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You have to understand something Gabe when it comes to online forums. Words are all we have! No body language to read! No voice inflection to listen for! Nothing else but words and punctuation! So be as clear as possible with your words. No one knows you from Adam. So be clear. This is advice frommetoyou. This isn't me nagging or being snarky. It's something everyone has to learn on Internet forums.

You need to understand that no one's entire life story could possibly be included in a short post. Things are left out. He did not say his parents did or did not adapt to each child's learning style. As a homeschooling mom, I assumed that they did. As a snark community, most ppl seemed to assume that they did not. He did not say or imply either way. Things are left out for brevity and people chose to pick it apart and fill in the blanks as they desired.

17 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Well it is your fault for writing it is such a way that implied that your parents used a homeschooling style for your siblings that did not work for them. We have to go by what you write and you never gave any indication that your parents switched teaching styles. 

So, don't leave us hanging here! What did people say about protecting homeschooling children from abuse and neglect(including educational neglect)? They come up with some sort of a plan to prevent the Erica Parsons from happening? 

He did not imply that his parents did not teach his siblings well. I didn't get that from his post at all. Furthermore, I'm interested in why it's his responsibility to somehow solely solve the problem of abuse within homeschooling families.

Do you feel that it's your responsibility to prevent abuse in not homeschooling families? Tell me, what have you done to prevent child abuse in traditional families? I was abused as a child. I went to public school. No one ever did a thing to help my sisters and me. Child abuse is NOT solely a homeschooling or fundie problem. And it's not anyone's specific personal duty to try and solve all the ills of society.

27 minutes ago, hollyandivy said:

I agree, it is the same at our house.  If I go somewhere on my own I run it by my husband as well, as I will leave him with three kids.  He might have made other plans, or I forgot a previous engagement or what not. I think it is just common courtesy, especially when you share  a car!

Ditto here. It's a courtesy, and a great way to plan logistics. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

32 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

You need to understand that no one's entire life story could possibly be included in a short post. Things are left out. He did not say his parents did or did not adapt to each child's learning style. As a homeschooling mom, I assumed that they did. As a snark community, most ppl seemed to assume that they did not. He did not say or imply either way. Things are left out for brevity and people chose to pick it apart and fill in the blanks as they desired.

He did not imply that his parents did not teach his siblings well. I didn't get that from his post at all. Furthermore, I'm interested in why it's his responsibility to somehow solely solve the problem of abuse within homeschooling families.

Do you feel that it's your responsibility to prevent abuse in not homeschooling families? Tell me, what have you done to prevent child abuse in traditional families? I was abused as a child. I went to public school. No one ever did a thing to help my sisters and me. Child abuse is NOT solely a homeschooling or fundie problem. And it's not anyone's specific personal duty to try and solve all the ills of society.

Ditto here. It's a courtesy, and a great way to plan logistics. 

Is it really all that shocking that someone a part of the fundie community (that LOVES them some patriarchy) is assumed that when he says his wife asked him if she could go shopping, then its assumed it's because he's the husband and not because they have one car?

I feel like you're being purposely obtuse in your posts.

PS: I know that long ass first sentence is atrocious. 

[SuchABlessing]

I know it's easy to snark on Gabe "letting" his wife do things, since most of us associate fundie husbands as being controlling "headships". Honestly though, I always ask my hubby's permission to do stuff, and visa versa (And we're heathen Catholics). In no way are we really asking each other for permission, but it's a common courtesy to ask so one of us doesn't worry if the other is out late or if we plan an activity outside our normal schedule. Clearly, I think that's what Gabe a going for.