The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[EmiGirl]

1 minute ago, Gabe said:

What a way to make friends and influence people. (sarcasm)

Merry Christmas FJ members!

 

Merry Christmas to you too,  @Gabe!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

16 minutes ago, Gabe said:

What a way to make friends and influence people. (sarcasm)

Merry Christmas FJ members!

 

Stopping to call people aberrations could be a start.

Merry Christmas. 

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, Gabe said:

What a way to make friends and influence people. (sarcasm)

Merry Christmas FJ members!

 

Thinking a whole lot of us deserve to spend eternity being tortured just because we don't share your belief system also isn't a great way to make friends and influence people. Telling some of our members they don't even exist also doesn't get you far. 

Anyway, FJ is a great place to make friends even if you end up arguing with those friends about certain things. I swear I've probably gotten into an argument with most of the members. And the thought put into creating my avatar just warms my heathen heart! 

I hope you and Brigid enjoy your first Christmas together. Whenever you get the spare time, I would like a list of Christian history books that aren't totally biased and whitewashing history. I do love reading a good history book! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, Gabe said:

What a way to make friends and influence people. (sarcasm)

Merry Christmas FJ members!

 

Merry Christmas to you Gabe.

I personally don't frequent FJ to make friends. Actually I'm not friends with anyone on this site. If I become friends with someone, that would be nice. But it's not the reason I come here and I doubt it's the reason you come as well. As to influencing? Meh. I doubt anyone will influence you even if we used honey instead of vinegar to get a point across. I like to think I could change a mind or two on FJ but those are probably the people lurking and already questioning a lot of things. But you? Nah. But I'll keep conversing with you on this thread although your mind most likely won't change. I guess I enjoy banging my head against  wall 

[anachronistic]

All I want for Christmas is for Gabe to answer my questions. 

Also executive functioning skills so I can find out what happened to those ornaments.

I got slippers. Twice. Oh well.

[nausicaa]

20 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

 

It's a pity because teaching children how the Führer was always right and Aryans were a superior race isn't that different from teaching children that conservative Christianity is the only right way, that people need to be saved in the only right way, that Native Americans were happy and grateful for it and Blacks were better off as slaves.

And what if we deliberately ignored it because shitty beliefs are even more harmful when presented wrapped up in humour and topped with a bow of apparent reasonableness? He can lighten it up all he wants, his message is harmful and his attempts at defending it and deflecting to our supposed meannes are pitiful.

Nine posts in and Hummingbird is already skilled enough to tell us how to Free Jinger correctly! Impressive.

[Bretta]

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Of course it's not necessary. And I'm not picking on him. I'm letting him know how talking in the third person can come across online. He may appreciate the advice as I doubt he wants to come across that way.

Sorry I misjudged your post then, haha. Didn't mean to come across in a negative way.

@laPapessaGiovanna Okay, read up. Fair enough, I accept your arguments and I do have questions for Gabe as well, since he's so eager to engage here whether to justify his own choices, have a laugh, etc. I don't know.

My issue is with men who marry woman who are vulnerable, especially economically and psychologically. Women who wouldn't have the skills/life experience etc. to stand on their own feet and are dependent in every way. It's not a college qualification at the end of the day; sometimes women from very conservative backgrounds and restricted upbringings have a very limited view of life. They may not be able to make decisions outside of the strict religious construct even if they really needed to ie in an emergency situation. They may not even have the critical thinking skills or confidence to make simple decisions or handle emergencies without their "male headship". I would think that a husband who loves his wife as he loves himself (Eph 5) would seek to empower her, not make her subject to and dependent on himself for selfish reasons ie. so that she will always make him dinner, stick by him even if he's a brute, never leave him even if he molests their children, cheats on her, threatens her life, etc.

This is my little rant... anyway, wouldn't it make sense to make sure that one's wife is able to support herself ie. by encouraging her to have career, skills, and options. Let's say she isn't educated... wouldn't it make a lot of sense to help her get something, anything, so that she could be provided for in your absence. I know talk about "trust in God" comes in at this point, but the world is a messed-up place where suffering exists and tragedy happens. Nothing happens according to plan, so there's nothing wrong with being prepared and not naively expecting everything to fall into place according to our narrow expectations. God doesn't promise that every submissive, stay-at-home wife would always have a husband to provide for her and treat her like she deserves.

I'm not saying, you, Gabe, and your wife Brigid fall into this category as no one outside a marriage can truly know it's dynamics. However, I have read of and know woman of this kind (generally) of background who have been purposefully deprived of an education, a fair chance at life, etc., who are treated like overgrown children and never given a chance to grow up and be a full person. When they get married, they are still basically treated like children, as if to be a woman is to be a sub-man or subhuman, treated without respect and with "honor" that's nothing more than lipservice and condescension and that only enforces her reduced status.

Now I'm going to use the Bible to make my argument because that's the only thing that really speaks to fundies...

There's nothing in the Bible that promotes the idea of "acquiring" a wife so as to get some kind of lifelong indentured servant who will basically meet your needs, birth your children, keep your house, etc. - ie. some applications of complementarianism. Egalitarianism in principle seems like the most logical thing... genitals and hormones don't make one gender more superior than the other, surely?  Doesn't 1 Corinthians 7 say that the wife owns the husband just as much as the husband owns the wife, that the husband is to please his wife as much as a wife is to please her husband? Even Ephesians 5 can be taken to mean that two people give their lives for each other and not as a justification for an unhealthy, unbalanced relationship, that puts all the power in the hands (or pants) of  the husband and leaves women at the mercy of narcissists and abusers. A complementarian relationship sets the stage for an abusive relationship, simply because women are taught to "worship" their husbands and treat them like demigods. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, does it not?

The fundamental principle of Christianity is that God, who is powerful, would humble himself and give himself for humanity. Ie. Jesus teaches that the least shall be the greatest, that Christians are to wash each other's feet and not pay no heed to "rank". Jesus said that the Kings of the gentiles laud it over their subjects, but it never to be so in his kingdom. Why not take these larger, general humanitarian principles and apply them to Christian marriages instead of only obsessing over a few verses. The fact that these few verses about submission, women's "inferiority" etc. become the central creed in complementarian marriage teachings speaks volumes about the personal priorities. Missing the forest for the trees, maybe?

[samurai_sarah]

Continue here: