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Courtney Women Living Well Divorced


snarkysally

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Okay, here it is...the real reason I finally came out of lurkdom and created a freejinger account. I was dying to talk to someone about this: http://womenlivingwell.org/2016/11/will-pray-family/ {<--I have tried several times to break the link but I can't get it to work)

This situation sounds very sad. Especially since she says she still loves her husband and wants him to come home after a year and divorce. 

I know she has been discussed here before, so you might remember that she is one of those women who says divorce is not an option, ever. She doesn't recognize much as being abuse that justifies ending a marriage. She pretty much says women should always stay and blames all problems on wives--if there are problems in the marriage, it's because the wife isn't a good enough wife. She has tons of blog posts and youtube videos about this stuff. If they would just do like her and have sex on demand, meet all of his needs, cater to his every whim, then the'd be fine. If there is a problem in the marriage then obviously it's the wife's fault. She has been very harsh and judgmental toward women going through divorce, etc. 

As sad as it is, I think this happening to her is literally the ONLY thing that would ever make her believe that maybe it isn't always the wife's fault after all. 

 

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WOW is all I can say...he must have had an affair and left her for someone... she's blaming Satan now so why did she use to blame women for it, if Satan is the reason now?

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1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

WOW is all I can say...he must have had an affair and left her for someone... she's blaming Satan now so why did she use to blame women for it, if Satan is the reason now?

That's exactly what I was going to say. I'm sure she blamed women all along for not submitting but now that he left her it's all satans doing. How very convenient. 

I would love to ask her a question. I would love to know if she submitted to her husband's decision to leave her or if she put up a fight. Because if she put up a fight then she's not following the Bible and being a proper wife in Christ. 

I'm also curious to know how she is handling making all decisions for the lives of herself and her children. I'm sure she made many decisions before she was divorced but I wonder if a lot has changed now that she is the head of her home and family.

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54 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That's exactly what I was going to say. I'm sure she blamed women all along for not submitting but now that he left her it's all satans doing. How very convenient. 

I would love to ask her a question. I would love to know if she submitted to her husband's decision to leave her or if she put up a fight. Because if she put up a fight then she's not following the Bible and being a proper wife in Christ. 

I'm also curious to know how she is handling making all decisions for the lives of herself and her children. I'm sure she made many decisions before she was divorced but I wonder if a lot has changed now that she is the head of her home and family.

In her blog she wrote up about how her husband wrote the dissolution up and she released him by signing it. Does she say that he left a year ago? She said she has been hinting this struggle for a time in blog posts and videos and was praying for him to come back before having to announce this. I remember her basically bragging in a video about what a good provider her husband was and how well off he made them with a nice home and car me how could I "not want to submit this?" I want her to write a post that her eyes have been open that it's not all the fault of the women for a divorce. Yes, convenient how Satan is the culprit in her divorce but not others, it's the wife.

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I don't wish this on anyone and I am sad for their children in all this. 

However I can't help but think well, well, well, lady who was so into submission and it would prevent divorce, went on talk shows to tout her way for marriage as the right and correct and best way, she is now divorced. Guess didn't work out as well as she thought. 

I hope her children are okay in all the mess. 

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8 minutes ago, dairyfreelife said:

However I can't help but think well, well, well, lady who was so into submission and it would prevent divorce, went on talk shows to tout her way for marriage as the right and correct and best way, she is now divorced.

Yeah, it's a great way for someone to set themselves up to look foolish. Goodness knows there's plenty of parallel stories about secular relationship "experts." It's almost like a one size fits all approach doesn't work in reality! :my_dodgy:

It's unfortunate that it sounds like she never saw it coming. That said, the entire idea of a wife completely submitting to her husband must make it difficult/impossible for a couple to speak to each other as equal partners... because it isn't equal. If one person's unilaterally in control, it's probably pretty easy to ignore or hide any developing issues, too, which only makes them worsen. But I suppose blaming Satan is easier than rethinking your own worldview. 

Hopefully she and her children will be okay. Perhaps time and perspective will eventually make the situation better. 

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54 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Do any of you know how many children she has?

2. A boy and a girl around middle school age or so.

10 hours ago, dairyfreelife said:

I don't wish this on anyone and I am sad for their children in all this. 

However I can't help but think well, well, well, lady who was so into submission and it would prevent divorce, went on talk shows to tout her way for marriage as the right and correct and best way, she is now divorced. Guess didn't work out as well as she thought. 

I hope her children are okay in all the mess. 

Yes! I'm sad for her, wouldn't wish it on anybody, and definitely feel badly for the children. 

But I couldn't help but think, karma has a way of knocking us off our high horses in life. I know it has happened to me a couple times before when I've had a judgmental, its-all-her-fault or i-would-never-do-that kind of attitude.

I just hope her experience will give her a little more compassion and understanding toward wives who are going through stuff like that, and maybe her eyes will be opened to the fact that yes, maybe they really did try.

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10 hours ago, December said:

It's unfortunate that it sounds like she never saw it coming. That said, the entire idea of a wife completely submitting to her husband must make it difficult/impossible for a couple to speak to each other as equal partners... because it isn't equal. If one person's unilaterally in control, it's probably pretty easy to ignore or hide any developing issues, too, which only makes them worsen. But I suppose blaming Satan is easier than rethinking your own worldview.

Honestly, I think she was a bit of a hypocrit with all the submission stuff. She preaches it, as well as women staying home, etc. But in some things she definitely seems to wear the pants in the family in ways that almost made me feel badly for her husband at times. The same with women being called to stay home. She condemns working women yet she has admitted to sometimes spending 60+ hours a week on her blog and she travels a lot for her blog and book, etc. I don't really know how much she actually lives out what she says, though she sure is harsh toward others who dont.

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2 hours ago, snarkysally said:

I don't really know how much she actually lives out what she says, though she sure is harsh toward others who dont.

If that's how someone envisions themselves to be, though, that's still what they have to grapple with not being enough to save a marriage. If someone can't acknowledge human(s) caused the breakup, not a supernatural force, it also likely means there won't be an acknowledgement that what they preached wasn't effective, so they can keep preaching it to others. 

Also, warning against the dangers of a woman having a career while doing a bunch of activities that amount to one seems par for the course for blogs discussed here! 

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Blindsided by divorce is painful for anyone.  It must be doubly hard for her because she believed that submission was the key to keeping a marriage together.

Who knows what the husband was thinking about submission though.  He obviously had an affair and left her for someone else   She says this --  "Though I had Biblical grounds to divorce my husband, it was he who drafted a dissolution and initiated the filing of it."  The only Biblical grounds for divorce are adultery.

I'm unclear what she means by her hubby "drafted the dissolution":  Is he a lawyer and drafted his own divorce petition or is this a fundie quasi legal document saying "i divorce you" ?  Even a no-fault divorce requires legal paperwork.  

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1 hour ago, December said:

Also, warning against the dangers of a woman having a career while doing a bunch of activities that amount to one seems par for the course for blogs discussed here! 

Good point. 

36 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I'm unclear what she means by her hubby "drafted the dissolution":  Is he a lawyer and drafted his own divorce petition or is this a fundie quasi legal document saying "i divorce you" ?  Even a no-fault divorce requires legal paperwork.  

I wondered about that part as well. He's not a lawyer. I wondered if she just felt like that was a gentler way of saying it rather than coming out and saying "divorce papers"

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46 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Blindsided by divorce is painful for anyone.  It must be doubly hard for her because she believed that submission was the key to keeping a marriage together.

Who knows what the husband was thinking about submission though.  He obviously had an affair and left her for someone else   She says this --  "Though I had Biblical grounds to divorce my husband, it was he who drafted a dissolution and initiated the filing of it."  The only Biblical grounds for divorce are adultery.

I'm unclear what she means by her hubby "drafted the dissolution":  Is he a lawyer and drafted his own divorce petition or is this a fundie quasi legal document saying "i divorce you" ?  Even a no-fault divorce requires legal paperwork.  

I think he does something in finance and drafted out how much money he was going to be giving her each month etc, sort of like an allowance. Basically, he was already weaning her off financially so that they were living as a divorced couple before she signed the divorce papers. This is what I have heard a husband do to his Christian SAHM wife and didn't want the divorce and he left her for another woman. When she refused to divorce he said "That won't be a problem, I know how to do this anyway." He is in private wealth management at an investment bank. 

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You know, this is exactly why people need to keep their mouths shut about the lives and choices of others. No one, not even those hand chosen by some god to be arrogant online assholes, is immune to human behavior and personal choice. No one.

I don't particularly feel bad for her. Of course it's hard when a marriage dissolves if there is still love involved, but she set herself up. The kids are probably doing dosed up extra with god and religion and Jesus and how to be the perfect helpmeet. It just doesn't sound to me like she has faced any kind of reality in this situation.

No celebrating the break up of a family, but no sympathy either. No doubt when I divorced 8 years ago she'd have thrown me under the bus and pressed on the gas.

As for him drafting the dissolution, in my state if both parties agree and sign in front of a judge, proving there is no coercion, a judge will sign off - if he/she wants to - thus granting the divorce. It still has to be filed, etc. but since you can get divorced without attorneys, you can also come up with your own agreement as long as it is filed and goes through all the proper steps.

Of course, a judge can deny your agreement for any reason he chooses. In my divorce, I tried to walk away with next to nothing just to get the hell out. I signed off & the ex signed off. The judge, however, said I was acting on emotion and not in my own best interest and would not sign off. It was all a very ugly time and I am grateful for the judge protecting my interests since I was too desperate to do so myself.

After that, I hired a lawyer.

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8 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

As for him drafting the dissolution, in my state if both parties agree and sign in front of a judge, proving there is no coercion, a judge will sign off - if he/she wants to - thus granting the divorce. It still has to be filed, etc. but since you can get divorced without attorneys, you can also come up with your own agreement as long as it is filed and goes through all the proper steps.

Is not this method (essentially a DIY divorce) cheaper than hiring attorneys? 

Yes, it could certainly work where the parties agree, there isn't a major imbalance of assets or need, etc., but it probably isn't suitable for most situations, particularly when there are custody & support issues.

Hadn't been following Courtney's blog but have to agree that if lessons have been learned about being holier-than-all & perfect, godly marriages, she isn't going to admit it.

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Is not this method (essentially a DIY divorce) cheaper than hiring attorneys? 
Yes, it could certainly work where the parties agree, there isn't a major imbalance of assets or need, etc., but it probably isn't suitable for most situations, particularly when there are custody & support issues.
Hadn't been following Courtney's blog but have to agree that if lessons have been learned about being holier-than-all & perfect, godly marriages, she isn't going to admit it.


If you don't use attorneys you just pay whatever filling fees your county charges. However, when kids and support are involved it's best to have a lawyer.
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46 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Is not this method (essentially a DIY divorce) cheaper than hiring attorneys? 

Yes, it could certainly work where the parties agree, there isn't a major imbalance of assets or need, etc., but it probably isn't suitable for most situations, particularly when there are custody & support issues.

Between his money that she's been pretty vocal about, and her earnings from book sales and blogging, I doubt that saving money on lawyers was an issue, though her not fighting it with courts/lawyers may have been a further act of "submission" for her to agree to the divorce and let him go. I'm sure she did get financial support from him though. 
 

@fundiefan, I'm sorry for what you had to go through, but glad the judge in your case was looking out for you.

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Her post seems to be from the heart.  If you've ever heard the words "I don't love you anymore" or "I'm in love with someone else and I'm leaving" in the middle of a long relationship/marriage, you know exactly where she's coming from.  The emotion is raw and real.  I understand it; I've lived it.  Twenty years later, a book titled Runaway Husbands: The Abandoned Wife's Guide to Recovery and Renewal by Vikki Stark helped me sort it out; even though I thought I was long past it all, scars remained and this book helped  me understand. 

It's a lived experience for some of us; I truly wouldn't wish it on anyone.  That said, she mentions that she's working through things with a counselor and I sincerely hope it's not a nouthetic one, but what are the chances of that?  And again, I hope she'll honestly address how she reconciles what  she thought life would be with her new reality; most likely she'll hit the lecture circuit to talk about it.  She's extremely fortunate in that her financial situation is not likely dire. 

All that said, this is a snark site.  I'd be willing to bet the ex's new squeeze is not a godly submissive woman and at some point, if not already, she'll be dealing with shared custody with that woman on the scene.  

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3 hours ago, fundiefan said:

 

As for him drafting the dissolution, in my state if both parties agree and sign in front of a judge, proving there is no coercion, a judge will sign off - if he/she wants to - thus granting the divorce. It still has to be filed, etc. but since you can get divorced without attorneys, you can also come up with your own agreement as long as it is filed and goes through all the proper steps.

Of course, a judge can deny your agreement for any reason he chooses. In my divorce, I tried to walk away with next to nothing just to get the hell out. I signed off & the ex signed off. The judge, however, said I was acting on emotion and not in my own best interest and would not sign off. It was all a very ugly time and I am grateful for the judge protecting my interests since I was too desperate to do so myself.

After that, I hired a lawyer.

First, I am so sorry about that situation for you, @fundiefan. I went thru something similar-- my ex and I had kept separate finances, and the only thing we both had our name on together was the deed to our house. I went into our dissolution of marriage wanting nothing of his, and actually asking the judge to give him the house (he was planning to file bankruptcy due to our house getting foreclosed on anyway). The judge asked me TWICE during the hearing if that really truly was what I wanted to do. It wasn't until that hearing that I even heard about all these credit cards and other debt that he had hidden from me. Funny enough, the reason I asked for the divorce was because he had stolen a shit-ton of money from me and driven us into foreclosure due to his porn addiction. Add in years of sexual abuse (marital rape is REAL, yall) and I was finally seeing the light. Thank the universe we didn't have any kids between us.

At any rate, in our state you can draw up your own papers as well as long as you go in front of a judge to finalize it. I actually bought a booklet that you could fill in the blanks and use.

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1 hour ago, Howl said:

All that said, this is a snark site.  I'd be willing to bet the ex's new squeeze is not a godly submissive woman and at some point, if not already, she'll be dealing with shared custody with that woman on the scene.  

I was thinking about that after my first read through of this thread. Joyfully submitting is not the same as actively participating. Of course we don't know, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the ex's new squeeze is an active participant.

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