Anna and the M-kids, Part 8

[Bad Wolf]

If she goes to a real doctor they will test her for STDs. If she goes with a CPM, then probably not.

[Cleopatra7]

20 minutes ago, Hisey said:

God, how could he spend his life in that cult and NOT be messed up sexually.

I think of Josh as a young boy of 14 or so. His whole life is spent in that little house, with his pregnant mom and brothers and sisters. There's always babies and toddlers around. He knows that a relationship with the opposite sex is a very, very loaded subject. But he's interested in sex and he's around his sisters 24/7. He has no sports teams to play on. He's home most of the time. He doesn't go to school, or have neighborhood kids to play with. He can't go to the movies with a friend (since most movies are evil). His life must have been supremely boring and very frustrating.

Sure, plenty of people (like John David) grow up like that and do not molest their sisters. But I can see how Josh's upbringing could have been very damaging to his sexuality. I blame him far more for the evil he did as a consenting adult, than what he did while still a victim himself of JB and Michelle.

I'm not saying she WILL leave. I'm saying if she does, it won't be now. It will be when she is much older. Now she's so young,  she still probably wants to please her parents. But in 15 years, they may be dead.

Reading between the lines of the police report and the timeline  for the molestations, I think JB and Michelle are guilty of doing what fundies often (falsely) claim about mothers who work outside the home, namely that they were too wrapped up in their own selfishness to notice that their kids were not alright. The molestations happened when JB was trying to get into politics and presumably he and Michelle were away from home a lot, schmoozing and being seen. Meanwhile, Josh would have been left at home in charge of almost a dozen kids from infants to tweens. Jana would have also had some authority as the eldest of the J'slaves, and maybe JD too, but Josh as the oldest son would have had the most authority with their parents away. The incident in the laundry room and the one involving reading the story book all scream of crimes of opportunity that were able to occur because JB and Michelle were nowhere in sight. How else could these crimes happen over and over again in a sardine can of a house filled to the brim with kids? Even with "only" twelve or thirteen kids, JB and Michelle had checked out of day to day parenting and outsourced it to Josh and the J'slaves with disastrous consequences. Even worse, they kept adding more kids to this situation when they weren't even parenting the ones they already had.

[HarleyQuinn]

I just saw the news on tumblr.

I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm just disappointed. 

[VineHeart137]

As soon as I logged in and saw the HOT on this thread, I knew. Almost didn't click cuz I knew it would make me sad.

[twoanddone]

4 hours ago, metheglyn said:

I could see Miracle if were going to be a girl, but they've said it's a boy and I have a hard time seeing them naming a boy Miracle. Much stranger things have happened in the fundie sphere though.

My son's soccer coach was named Miracle. Really nice guy.  It happens,

[Jennifer Hart]

Sadly, this isn't surprising. Anna has been brainwashed her entire life. The only thing she was raised to do is pray, worship God, cater to her husband and have babies.

[Jiraffe]

1 hour ago, Tatar-tot said:

  If he wanted to do something sexual she was uncomfortable with she is doing it now. 

Oof. Your whole post was good, but this line. This line right here. Just breaks my heart for her, because that's just SO wrong, yet I have no doubt in my mind that you're correct. 

I agree with some others that have said maybe Josh will leave. I don't think his situation would be as bleak as Anna's; yes, he would lose JB's money and backing, but he could go do construction or work at a car lot anywhere. He'll certainly never work in politics again either way (hmm, maybe not so certainly, after all the Orange One managed it) so what does he have to lose? However, he would have to realize this life is not right for him in order to do that, and I just don't think he will ever really figure that out or come to grips with it. 

I do feel bad for Anna, but mainly, I just hate that they're adding another innocent child to this mess. 

[Hisey]

I do too. I feel as though those five little kids are destined for a childhood in an unhappy home. I feel sorry for them, they are so sweet and beautiful.

I mean the thing that drove Josh to adultery is probably still there. I doubt his uncredited residential program rooted it out of him. He may be "good" for a couple of years, but is it likely he can suppress his urges forever?

As for Anna. . . it's one thing to submit and obey a man you love and trust. I hate the idea of submission, but if it's someone you love and trust. . . maybe it could work. But it's very hard to follow those same damn rules if you are furious and humiliated and unable to show it.

[Tatar-tot]

On 3/16/2017 at 9:30 PM, FloraKitty35 said:

I wonder if Priscilla looks at Anna & Esther (especially Esther) and realizes that she's lucky in comparison to her sisters.

Sorry about the quote above it has nothing to do with my comment. 

Jiraffe - What prompted my comment which you highlighted was Michelle going on and on about there were certain areas in Jim-Bob's life that only she can satisfy his needs.   That segwayed into going on and on about her being tired and not in the mood was not an option in her marriage.

I would bet money when Josh was in "re-hab", and Anna was living in the girl's room in the big house she was counseled by Michelle and the ATI community about how to be a submissive wife meant in her marriage.

The entire concept set forth of a submissive wife is horrible.  Submission sets a fertile field that leads to abuse whether it is physical, or emotional.  

[amendgitan]

51 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

As soon as I logged in and saw the HOT on this thread, I knew. Almost didn't click cuz I knew it would make me sad.

Tragic. I can't imagine the sorrow of her life. Having to endlessly breed with that horror of a man. Knowing who he is and what he did. 

And having no real way out. It's pathetic. 

[Toothfairy]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If Jill, Anna, and Jinger are all due within a couple months of one another they will just go ON and ON and ON about it ON Counting ON. 

Don't forget Joy and Joe. Maybe a honeymoon baby. 

[GoddessOfVictory]

Since most couples find out the sex gender somewhere around 20 weeks (give or take a few weeks), I would guess Anna is due sometime late July/early August (if they just found out the gender this week).

Just a guess, of course. We all know how coy the Duggars are about timelines.

[anjulibai]

2 hours ago, Hisey said:

No, I don't think they'll have that many. Look how long it took to conceive #5. When things are that ugly and there is so much unspoken anger and resentment in a marriage, the sex goes downhill. I'm not saying she's turning him down (she wouldn't), I'm just saying there is too much sadness there. Even Josh would probably rather spend time with his right hand than try to fool around with a woman who is smothering her resentment and forcing a smile.

I have to disagree about Anna. Now she is an overwhelmed, unhappy young mother, who is struggling to figure out why it was her fault. She needs to shed all that stuff before she'll have the self esteem to leave. That takes time.

She's actually right on track for her fertility history, which is a baby every 2 years or so. If she keeps at that, she could have another 5-7 more over the next 15 years. I doubt sex will go down. She will continue to submit and he will continue to demand. 

Because even if Josh strays again, he's still going to have sex with her. 

We really don't know how Anna is right now, to be honest. I've never seen her as overwhelmed with the demands of caring for children, whatever story the series tried to present about her. She seems to thrive on normal family life.

And she's likely getting a fair amount of attention right now because this baby is proof of God's mercy, so there's your self-esteem. As it is, there's no way for her to develop her self-esteem outside of having babies because she has no opportunity to do so; she's ensconced in Duggarland caring for her children. 

I have hope that Anna will come around, but I don't think it looks good. 

[Jaedzia]

This sucks. Poor M5. Poor M1 to M4. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

I previously guessed an M5 baby would arrive in May, so I'll stick to that. Joy gets married in June. Jill delivers in July. Joe gets engaged in August and married in November. 

When Anna took him back after pray-hab, I held out hope that she was planning for a long game, sneakily got a 5-year IUD, would negotiate some job training into her revised marriage contract, would bolt when Meredith turned 5, put all the kids in public school, get a job, remarry, and finish her desired mega quiver with a normal guy. I am still holding out hope that this happens after M5 is born.

I hope they stick with the M-theme. It would be terrible for all of the kids to be labeled pre-affair and post-affair by changing the theme. I know the Duggars named 4 of their kids "Jo..something," so I also hope they avoid anything redundant, i.e. Micah, Mark, Marco, even Malcolm or Malachi could yield a second kid named Mack. 

I'm partial to Miles, but I think Maxwell is more their style, with some type of redemption themed middle name, to create something spectacularly awkward, or maybe awesome?, like Max Courage, Max Justice, Max Loyal, Max Ardor, Max Rock, Max Noble, or Max True.

 

[Chewing Gum]

Can we talk (middle) names? Obviously Matthew is a strong possibility up front  meaning gift from god, but other than that:

- Asher (happy, blessed, and you know, from the ashes..?)

- David (beloved, but probably not 'cause of Pris).

- Gabriel (something with God as a strong man)

- Isaac (He will rejoice)

- Isaiah (God is salvation)

- Matthias, see Matthew. 

- Nathan (he gave)

- Raphael (god had healed)

- Solomon (peace)

Any other suggestion? Ofcourse they could just do Matthias/Matthew Joshua and redeem Josh that way. 

[Emcee]

Aren't there non-biblical names?  I am personally so sick of the constant biblical references I could err up.

[Million Children For Jesus]

They tend to go with more traditional names, so for a middle name, one of the traditional fundie favorites: David, Nathan, Caleb, Elijah, Isaiah, Timothy, or Zachary. @Chewing Gum

I retract my previous "don't use Malachi" statement. They like weird spellings. It could be Malakai, nickname Kai. Kynzie and Kai sound cute together.

Side Note: I do think Josh will be the one to leave, and Anna will be heartbroken. She was in it for life, and he was in it because he thought it was the right thing to do. It doesn't appear that this marriage feels authentic to him. He will get crapped on for leaving, but it would be the most honest thing to do. Anna should have the opportunity to be with someone who loves and appreciates her.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

My reaction summed up in a gif. 

I had hope that Anna would have been empowered to leave him, but I knew it wouldn't happen. She's completely brainwashed into accepting his disgusting behaviour, and I'm sure she's expected to tolerate a lot of emotional abuse and do things she's uncomfortable with sexually. My heart breaks for her. She seems like a nice person and she deserves so much better. My heart also breaks for the M kids, who have been publicly humiliated when they never made the decision to be on TV and be public figures and are living in a home where this is the state of the parents marriage. I feel for Mackenzie and Meredith in particular, who will grew up believing it is normal to tolerate this, and I worry for them living in a home with a sexual predator.

I can't even snark, this is all just tragic. Josh's family are victims forced to tolerate it because of ~faith~. 

 

Spoiler

 

[SorenaJ]

I'm guessing Matthew Isaiah 

[bal maiden]

Someone mentioned above that Anna said her parents kept her in the dark about sex until a couple of weeks before her marriage. Which leaves me wondering how much of an explanation she got of Josh's molestation. I find it hard to believe that Pa Keller explained the molestation to her without her having any knowledge of sex. 

[AlwaysExcited]

Not surprised. At least, it's not twins. 

Name: Extremely symbolic, meaningful and godly. Announced with a long explanation of how this kid has changed their lives ("children INDEED are blessings!") and how the name reflects that. 
Yes, with previous kids they weren't that crazy with names, but a lot has changed since then. They'll use every tool possible to prove others and themselves that everything is "wonderful". 

First names: Matthew, Moses ("as Moses led Israel from Egypt, this precious little addition is a sign of God leading us out of life in sin and misery"),Medad, Menahem. Something Biblical, anyway. 

Middle names: Aaron, Joshua (eww), Caleb (with a reference to J'Caleb), Obed, Omad or Ohar, Othniel, Nathan or Jonathan, Peter or Paul, Raphael, Samuel, Tobias. Or they'll go completely crazy and name him Justice, Peace or Restoration. Or Blessing. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

7 minutes ago, AlwaysExcited said:

Joshua (eww)

I hope they don't. It's not the right time for that yet. 

[AlwaysExcited]

3 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I hope they don't. It's not the right time for that yet. 

Me too. But they could. And with one of the future blessings they probably will. 

[Fundie Bunny]

8 hours ago, Jana814 said:

This whole thing is just plain sad. I don't think this child will save their marriage.  If anything Josh might stray again. Didn't he join Ashley Madison when Anna was pregnant?  

Well, after all she has been pregnant for about 40% of their marriage.