Anna and the M-kids, Part 8

[singsingsing]

31 minutes ago, melon said:

You know,my son said something very similar.He said that if Josh had not had such a sheltered life,he may not have molested his sisters,and if he had sown a few wild oats,maybe just , maybe ,he would have turned out a little different.But who knows?

Josh was way too young to be sowing wild oats at the time of the molestations. He was still a child himself. But if he had been allowed a normal upbringing, a psychologically healthy experience of going through puberty - maybe something would've been different. Or maybe not. It really is impossible to say. One thing we can know for sure, though, is that his upbringing definitely did not help him.

[loveformusic]

Wishing all the best & for a healthy pregnancy for Anna's sake, but I personally couldn't continue with the marriage, let alone have another baby, if I were in the same situation as her. Very unfortunate (stupid Josh!) but wishing all the best, anyway.

Totally not surprised, either.  Expected - yes - surprised? Nope. Either the Duggars have just been so predictable, this year...or life in general just doesn't surprise me anymore. It may just be a bit of both at this point, lol.

[Mela99]

Speaking on behalf of all the TTC and infertile FJers: 

Not. Fair. 

[General Jinjur]

Oh puke. Saw this was hot, and for a brief moment hoped she had left him. *sigh* I know she was dealt a shitty hand, what with being trained from birth to be nothing but a joyfully available wife and mother, but at what point can I start putting some of the blame on her? This is awful.

[BullyJBG]

1 minute ago, Mela99 said:

Speaking on behalf of all the TTC and infertile FJers: 

Not. Fair. 

No kidding; poor Michaela.

 Until we find out what they name him, I'm gonna call him Murphy. LOL

[Carm_88]

2 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

No kidding; poor Michaela.

 Until we find out what they name him, I'm gonna call him Murphy. LOL

Michael would be putting that child in the same cult; I feel for all the people who would raise their children right and are struggling. 

[Incognito22]

7 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Speaking on behalf of all the TTC and infertile FJers: 

Not. Fair. 

My thoughts exactly!  Only mine was FU!

[singsingsing]

Let's be real. Anna was never going to leave. Never. Someone a couple pages back said, "It's too late for her now." Realistically, it was too late for her a long, long time ago. Like, long before the scandal(s) even hit. I know a lot of people want to see her give Josh the middle finger and ride off into the sunset with her children, but that was never going to happen. I know her brother said he'd take her in, but in reality we have no idea how serious he was. We have no idea what kind of relationship Anna has with him. We have no idea what kind of human being he is - what if he's even worse than Josh? And could he support his sister and her 4 (now 5) children indefinitely? 

Anna has no education, no skills, and no work experience. Finding a job that would pay enough to allow her to support herself and her children would be next to impossible. She could go to college and train for something, but again, how would she support herself and her children in the mean time? I'm sure she would get spousal/child support from Josh, but how far would that really go?

Here's the other thing: Anna doesn't want to leave. She was raised to be a good fundamentalist wife and mother, and of all the people we snark on, Anna honestly seems to genuinely desire that lifestyle the most. When she married, she made a pledge not only to Josh but to God to stay with him for better or for worse, and these people believe in a very exacting and angry God. Keep in mind, too, that the molestation scandal wasn't a new thing for her. The only new thing was the Ashley Madison scandal, and of that we don't have all the details. Fundies aren't the only ones who stay married after adultery, and we don't even know if he ever physically cheated on her. It's also quite possible that despite everything she truly loves Josh and wants to rebuild the relationship. And I'm absolutely certain that she wants what's best for her children (and I'm going to take this moment to point out that there is no evidence whatsoever that Josh is or has ever been a danger to his own children).

Put that all together, and staying married to Josh might actually be the best option for Anna. Is it a good option? Of course not. The whole situation is a shitfest. But it's probably the best option of all the shitty options, and she would definitely think it was.

[Pasta]

Mathias Alexander or Ezekiel Laurence. 

Maybe they'll do a new set of letter names so we can have redemption kids like the reversal kids in that other family. Don't get me wrong, it's not great news but I expected nothing less.  

[CatchThatCow]

On 3/14/2017 at 3:40 PM, season of life said:

It really is a shame for Anna that she got stuck to this jerk. Every time she attends a wedding, I wonder if she is reminded about her own...

I am sure she is, I know I would be. She deserves better. I know she stayed in the marriage because that's how she was raised and she was probably easily convinced that some of this was her fault. Which is total crap because she's given birth to four children in how many years? Not many, I know. So she's been joyfully available and done all of the other crap expected of her. I sadly agree with those who've already commented that he will screw up again. For her sake and the kids, I hope to be wrong. 

[Hmmm_idolatry]

I can't help but wonder if the situation of whether or not she stays in the marriage would be different if the brother who offered to take her in, or the sister who left the cult lived in the same town.  There's no way of knowing whether or not it would make a difference, but I can't help but notice that she's a long way from Florida.  

[singsingsing]

I hope they stick to the M theme. This new baby is already going to be branded the 'redemption baby'. I feel like giving him a different letter would purposely be setting him apart, and he doesn't need to carry the load of his father's scandal and his parents' marital struggles on his shoulders.

[Mela99]

2 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

Well, I would have preferred a JinJer baby announcement but this is not a surprise.  Another boy.  Last interview they said they may not continue with the M's.  We shall see.  I do hope that Anna is doing well emotionally.

Joshua Jr. Calling it now.

[HermioneSparrow]

I'm so disgusted. News like these makes me think none of these people will ever leave fundamentalism.

[frugaldreams]

On 12/25/2016 at 11:36 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

Anna probably doesn't realize that loving someone else is an option.

She probably also doesn't realize that loving someone doesn't make them good for you or you good for them. It doesn't endow you or your situation with the power to change your loved one's character or challenges.

I don't think she can even conceive that  it is possible to love someone from the bottom of your heart and, at the same time, understand that leaving might still be the best thing for everyone involved.

[Jana814]

This whole thing is just plain sad. I don't think this child will save their marriage.  If anything Josh might stray again. Didn't he join Ashley Madison when Anna was pregnant?  

[WhoompThereItIs]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

I could see Miracle if were going to be a girl, but they've said it's a boy and I have a hard time seeing them naming a boy Miracle. Much stranger things have happened in the fundie sphere though. 

True. Case in point - Heistheway.

[singsingsing]

I'm going to be honest here. I really don't think that Anna leaving him would be the best thing for everyone involved. Sure, ideally it would be - and if she divorced him tomorrow I would support her decision (not that it matters) - but there is a lot that needs to be unpacked before her divorcing him would end well. Like deconstruction of an entire upbringing and belief system, deep introspection about who she is, what she believes, what she wants and needs in life, a realistic financial plan, a support system. As it is she's in a situation where (we have to assume) she's not being abused and her children aren't being abused. She and her children are provided for financially. Psychologically she feels that she is doing the right thing. She keeps her place of respect in her religion and community and keeps her support system intact.

If I want to talk about what I wish for Anna, I can think of two ideal options:

1) Josh and Anna decide they're committed to making their marriage work, but they realize that have to make major changes for the sake of themselves and their children. They begin to move away from their fundamentalist beliefs. They join a liberal or moderate church which emphasizes God's love and being a good person over rigid rules, God's wrath, and an extremist political agenda. If selling used cars isn't paying off, Josh gets a real job with which he can support his family. Josh and Anna work on their marriage. They go to couples therapy. Josh goes to therapy himself. Anna goes to therapy herself. Josh makes serious changes not because he's afraid of the wrath of God, but because he genuinely realizes how his failings hurt his family, and he genuinely wants to be different.

2) Anna divorces Josh. She goes to live with one of her siblings' families, who are somehow able to support her and all her children. Josh has enough income/assets to pay her substantial support each month. Anna enrolls the kids in a great local school, works part time to gain some experience, and takes classes at night. She moves away from fundamentalism and learns to truly love and value herself. 

I think option 1 is more realistic, but I don't think either are realistic at all at this point. Both would require at least one of them to be willing to leave fundamentalism, and they are deeply, deeply entrenched right now.

[Nikedagain?]

40 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Joshua Jr. Calling it now.

OH DEAR GOD NO. Surely not??

(and don't call me Shirley)

[frugaldreams]

On 1/3/2017 at 3:22 AM, freedom_for_all said:

I always assumed or guessed that was the case. Unless there has been some clever editing Anna doesn't seem the kind to agree to spend her life with such a person. I would be very surprised if she knew what we all do now.

I don't know. Doug Wilson managed to convince Katie Wilson to knowingly marry a registered sex offender and Doug and Katie weren't even related. She was going to 'college' and out in the world more than Anna, even if just by a margin. She fell for it.

How much more pressure would those arguments have coming from her preacher father? Her headship and personification of Christ on Earth? Especially if he is framing it as redemption story and giving her a starring role? A girl raised on Vision Forum, Gothard and the Pearls would swallow it hook line and Josh shaped sinker.

[marmalade]

24 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

This whole thing is just plain sad. I don't think this child will safe their marriage.  If anything Josh might stray again. Didn't he join Ashley Madison when Anna was pregnant?  

Which account? You know he had two, right?

[Jana814]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

I'm going to be honest here. I really don't think that Anna leaving him would be the best thing for everyone involved. Sure, ideally it would be - and if she divorced him tomorrow I would support her decision (not that it matters) - but there is a lot that needs to be unpacked before her divorcing him would end well. Like deconstruction of an entire upbringing and belief system, deep introspection about who she is, what she believes, what she wants and needs in life, a realistic financial plan, a support system. As it is she's in a situation where (we have to assume) she's not being abused and her children aren't being abused. She and her children are provided for financially. Psychologically she feels that she is doing the right thing. She keeps her place of respect in her religion and community and keeps her support system intact.

If I want to talk about what I wish for Anna, I can think of two ideal options:

1) Josh and Anna decide they're committed to making their marriage work, but they realize that have to make major changes for the sake of themselves and their children. They begin to move away from their fundamentalist beliefs. They join a liberal or moderate church which emphasizes God's love and being a good person over rigid rules, God's wrath, and an extremist political agenda. If selling used cars isn't paying off, Josh gets a real job with which he can support his family. Josh and Anna work on their marriage. They go to couples therapy. Josh goes to therapy himself. Anna goes to therapy herself. Josh makes serious changes not because he's afraid of the wrath of God, but because he genuinely realizes how his failings hurt his family, and he genuinely wants to be different.

2) Anna divorces Josh. She goes to live with one of her siblings' families, who are somehow able to support her and all her children. Josh has enough income/assets to pay her substantial support each month. Anna enrolls the kids in a great local school, works part time to gain some experience, and takes classes at night. She moves away from fundamentalism and learns to truly love and value herself. 

I think option 1 is more realistic, but I don't think either are realistic at all at this point. Both would require at least one of them to be willing to leave fundamentalism, and they are deeply, deeply entrenched right now.

I wish for her your option 2 was something she would do. But that will not happen. The fact is if Anna was not in a cult she would have 1) never married Josh after he admitted what he did to his sisters or 2) even if she did marry him once the Ashley Madison stuff came out she would have taken her kids & left.  

[socalrules]

The only thing I am surprised about is that it took so long for Anna to get pregnant. I assumed the redemption baby would come a little sooner.

I never thought Anna was going to leave Josh. Anna was raised to be a good fundy wife and I think she enjoys it. I think she loves Josh and wants her marriage to work. As someone said earlier, Anna may see this as the best option for her kids. We may not see that but our worldview is different. I am a well-educated woman with a good job and the idea of being a single mom to that many small kids freaks me out. I can't imagine how scary that would be for Anna.

Since this was a Friday news dump, I expect we will get more surprise Duggar news soon to take the attention away from M5. 

[BabyBottlePop]

I was really hoping that this wouldn't happen, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I think it's very telling it took so long though-- even if Anna hasn't been very fertile (compared to some of the other people we discuss). 

[metheglyn]

37 minutes ago, WhoompThereItIs said:

True. Case in point - Heistheway.

I have to admit, that's the one I was thinking about!