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Jill, Derick, Israel and the Shower Rack- Part 21


samurai_sarah

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I have a different take on the whole "Is she pregnant? Or not?" Question.  Really, why even bother to speculate?  At any given time the odds are pretty good that one or more of the married Duggar couples are expecting.  I find it pointless to scrutinize every photo.  Why give this fame hungry family any more attention?  It seems a little leghumperish to me.  So If your wondering why I pay them any attention?  Well, I'm waiting for one of the howlers to flip off his parents and write a tell-all book.  When that happens, I want to be ready.  I want to be well informed before I get to read the juicy details.   Haha

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I personally don't really give a shit if she's pregnant, but I feel no sympathy for her being judged nor do I think it's wrong for people to speculate.  She made the decision to display her entire life for public consumption.  I felt bad when they were all minors and forced into this dog and pony show by their fame hungry, narcissistic parents.  However, they are adults now and could stop the nonsense anytime they wish.  Hell, they had the perfect out after the Josh fiasco and cancelling of the old show.  All of them could have bowed out of the limelight and walked off into the sunset to live quiet lives.  They chose to do otherwise and with choices come consequences.  You don't want criticism (fair or not), then get off the damn TV.

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20 hours ago, nolongerIFBx said:

As to the Jill ill fitting shirt discussion, in my opinion, it kindof ties in here. Jill's pregnancy/nursing affected her bust line quite a bit. She is now experiencing what many of us "blessed" do. Do you buy the size of your bust or the size of the rest of you? You throw in Jill's training on modesty and she is going to buy large clothes to prevent tightness around her bust (defrauding) so she ends up in a much larger size. No body shaming from me on either her bust or waistline, just my opinion of what is going on with her current clothes choices.

I understand the baggy shirt situation. But when she paired it with a long, baggy skirt, the whole outfit just looked a complete mess (IMO).  When put together, the top and bottom just made it seem like she was wearing one large bag. 

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1 hour ago, Childless said:

I personally don't really give a shit if she's pregnant, but I feel no sympathy for her being judged nor do I think it's wrong for people to speculate.  She made the decision to display her entire life for public consumption.  I felt bad when they were all minors and forced into this dog and pony show by their fame hungry, narcissistic parents.  However, they are adults now and could stop the nonsense anytime they wish.  Hell, they had the perfect out after the Josh fiasco and cancelling of the old show.  All of them could have bowed out of the limelight and walked off into the sunset to live quiet lives.  They chose to do otherwise and with choices come consequences.  You don't want criticism (fair or not), then get off the damn TV.

I disagree. By that logic it's okay to judge women's bodies and appearances as long as they're famous. No, it's not. It wasn't okay when Jennifer Lawrence was fat-shamed when she was cast as Katniss. It isn't okay when the Daily Fail runs an entire article about how a model chose an empire-waisted top because there are rumours she's pregnant. And it isn't okay to say Jill might be pregnant because she wore a tunic and eschews birth control.

Being in the public eye doesn't mean basic standards of common decency and respect don't apply. To say Jill might be pregnant because of what she's wearing is to feed into the idea that only pregnant women have anything other than flat stomachs and that women's bodies are not their own but are there for public consumption. It is, frankly, sexist to scrutinise a woman's body for signs of pregnancy, and if we don't allow it for people we know but consider celebrities fair game, then we're still buying into the patriarchal ideas about womens' ownership of their own bodies but simply making exceptions for people we know.

Yes, if Jill doesn't like it she has the choice to make her Instagram private, to end her contract with TLC, and to live out a quiet life. I agree with you on that much. She has the power to stop this scrutiny of *her* body. But she has neither the power nor the responsibility to end the scrutiny and judgement of women's bodies. That's on the people doing the judging.

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So mentioning that someone might be PG- a person who has sold her life, a life based on the fact that women are useful primarily for procreation, to TLC and the public for easy money, is now considered body shaming?

So pregnant automatically = fat?

I disagree.

Why is it judgmental to talk about a women who might be pregnant when the commodity that is being paid for here is pregnancy and another baby?

The Duggars are famous and wealthy because of pregnancy (after pregnancy, after pregnancy) and babies. 

This is like not talking about the sweetness and creaminess of ice cream in a commercial about ice cream.

 

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5 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So mentioning that someone might be PG- a person who has sold her life, a life based on the fact that women are useful primarily for procreation, to TLC and the public for easy money, is now considered body shaming?

So pregnant automatically = fat?

I disagree.

Why is it judgmental to talk about a women who might be pregnant when the commodity that is being paid for here is pregnancy and another baby?

The Duggars are famous and wealthy because of pregnancy (after pregnancy, after pregnancy) and babies. 

This is like not talking about the sweetness and creaminess of ice cream in a commercial about ice cream.

 

and someone brilliant in another thread said - they sold themselves meaning the older adults daughters to the devil when they agreed to partake in a show called counting on - they see it as the way they live life.  they post videos about ti - they discuss is at every turn 

they could have run away and just lived their lives but they wanted this new life to be on the internet and scrutinized 

 

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3 hours ago, Childless said:

I personally don't really give a shit if she's pregnant, but I feel no sympathy for her being judged nor do I think it's wrong for people to speculate.  She made the decision to display her entire life for public consumption.  I felt bad when they were all minors and forced into this dog and pony show by their fame hungry, narcissistic parents.  However, they are adults now and could stop the nonsense anytime they wish.  Hell, they had the perfect out after the Josh fiasco and cancelling of the old show.  All of them could have bowed out of the limelight and walked off into the sunset to live quiet lives.  They chose to do otherwise and with choices come consequences.  You don't want criticism (fair or not), then get off the damn TV.

 
 
 

But Jill didn't make the decision to display her entire life for public consumption.  Her parents made it for her, and that's the way she has spent the majority of her life now.  This is her normal.

I have read some of Leah Remini's interviews about Scientology, and why she stayed in it so long (she was also born into Scientology) and she talked about the indoctrination and how they were taught all outside influences were wrong and could not be trusted - an "us and them" ethos.  It helped me understand more why these women (Jessa, Jill and possibly Jinger - or any woman involved in this) do not just walk away once they are married and out of the house.  This is their normal.

Years and years of brainwashing does not necessarily go away the day you step outside the compound.  You can't expect immediate critical thinking from someone whose whole life and upbringing preached against that very thing.

My opinion only, of course.

 

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6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So mentioning that someone might be PG- a person who has sold her life, a life based on the fact that women are useful primarily for procreation, to TLC and the public for easy money, is now considered body shaming?

So pregnant automatically = fat?

I disagree.

Why is it judgmental to talk about a women who might be pregnant when the commodity that is being paid for here is pregnancy and another baby?

The Duggars are famous and wealthy because of pregnancy (after pregnancy, after pregnancy) and babies. 

This is like not talking about the sweetness and creaminess of ice cream in a commercial about ice cream.

 

There's a difference between saying someone *might* be pregnant and saying she *looks* pregnant. I, personally, don't have a problem with people saying she might be pregnant based on comments she's made or that time she made an Insta post about herself eating green beans with salt and vinegar (because she made a big deal about those cravings in her pregnancy with Izzie). But that's not the same thing as saying she looks pregnant in a loose top, because that is inherently scrutinising her body, and that's not something I'm comfortable with, full-stop.

I'm not saying other posters shouldn't make those comments. It's not against the rules and I'm not in favour of it being a rule. I just don't think it's okay to comment on women's bodies just because they're in the public eye.

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Nope, once you decide to procreate and allow another generation to be affected you are free game, IMO.

The children have no say, but once the child is a parent  and making the same decisions, nope-

Adults have other choices!

I thought of something else- does anyone think that Jill would be offended by people thinking she looks pregnant??????

These are women who the bigger they get in pregnancy, the tighter and by some standards, less modest the clothing becomes. These folks REJOICE in sharing their growing uteri.

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2 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Nope, once you decide to procreate and allow another generation to be affected you are free game, IMO.

The children have no say, but once the child is a parent  and making the same decisions, nope-

Adults have other choices!

What her body looks like is not a decision.

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1 minute ago, alba said:

What her body looks like is not a decision.

IIRC, people were addressing what her clothing made her look like.

Her clothing is a choice.

 

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2 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

IIRC, people were addressing what her clothing made her look like.

Her clothing is a choice.

 

You might be right on that one, in which case I apologise. I still disagree with the idea that she is open to any and all scrutiny because her life is public, but there's a huge difference between saying she looks like she's wearing a maternity top or she looks like she's wearing a loose top to hide a pregnancy than saying out-and-out she looks pregnant.

That said, one of my otherwise favourite shirts makes me look pregnant because I have big boobs and a short torso :pb_lol: (I've never been pregnant, FTR).

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49 minutes ago, alba said:

That said, one of my otherwise favourite shirts makes me look pregnant because I have big boobs and a short torso :pb_lol: (I've never been pregnant, FTR).

Ugh I have this problem as well! I've always said I have a short torso, which makes me look larger (also paired with a large chest). Friends and family dismissed it saying I was just self conscious or insecure or fishing for compliments. Needless to say, I actually felt pretty good when the seamstress altering my wedding dress said I should have never bought the dress because of the style of it and how short my torso was. Well, I felt good after I got over the shock of my seamstress telling me I picked the "wrong" dress about a month before my wedding.

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Do we really know if the Duggar girls have the same beliefs regarding children and birth control? We've heard Michelle countless times state she and Jimbob are against birth control and that children are a blessing and always be available to your husband, etc,etc. But have the daughters ever said these things?  If I remember right they have said things like seeing what the Lord brings or leaving it up to God but that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if Michelle and Jimbob's view of procreation is being projected onto their children by default by leghumpers and snarkers alike, or if we know that they actually believe these things. 

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1 minute ago, JesSky03 said:

Do we really know if the Duggar girls have the same beliefs regarding children and birth control? We've heard Michelle countless times state she and Jimbob are against birth control and that children are a blessing and always be available to your husband, etc,etc. But have the daughters ever said these things?  If I remember right they have said things like seeing what the Lord brings or leaving it up to God but that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if Michelle and Jimbob's view of procreation is being projected onto their children by default by leghumpers and snarkers alike, or if we know that they actually believe these things. 

Very true. And in my mind, thinking you will take whatever "The Lord Sends" might not seem so rosy with five children under five and everyone is sick. But, then, they now will always have help if they stay near the Compoung. So if they always have help and money, well, they could continue to espouse those Gothard beliefs. But I think it brings about 2manyKidzzz. Ha ha. 

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I've probably said this before, but I believe that Michelle's form of "leaving it up to God" meant "fucking like rabbits at every opportunity and hoping for a positive pee stick every month" 

I'm not sure the daughters feel the same way, and in their cases, their husbands may not be the horn dogs JB is. The daughters may certainly "make themselves joyfully available" whenever the males ask, but do the males ask all the time? The guys are probably tuned into the women's cycles as much as they are, and could definitely fall asleep early on a "fertile" night.. 

To me, there is a difference between trying to get pregnant at every opportunity, and having sex when the mood strikes, and waiting to see what happens.

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1 hour ago, SamiKatz said:

But Jill didn't make the decision to display her entire life for public consumption.  Her parents made it for her, and that's the way she has spent the majority of her life now.  This is her normal.

 

I'm not sure where I stand on the commenting on if they could be pregnant or not, I see both sides on this one. 

But I will say I think it's completely fair game to hold Josh, Jessa, Jinger, and Jill responsible for continuing to be in the public eye. They are not children anymore, by worldly or Fundie standards. They are choosing to sign contracts and do shows and have open Instagram accounts to earn money. Especially in Jill's case. She and Derrick could have supported themselves easily without the show by having Derrick work as an accountant for Wal-Mart in a low-cost area. 

Now, where the line is for how much the public has the right to consume of their lives because they've made them public? I'm still undecided. 

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On 11/29/2016 at 8:04 AM, VelociRapture said:

That said, I do think people need to be prepared for getting called out by others who disagree. Because self-policing is a big part of the board culture here and it's pretty effective at keeping things on track.

(And I mentioned the actual purpose of the site because people confuse it very easily. It used to appear on the banner, but it doesn't anymore after the redesign. But, ultimately, the reason the site exists in the first place is to discuss the flaws of fundamentalism - the "fluffier" or "gossipy" discussions just grew out of that, but isn't the main purpose or why many people are initially drawn here.)

Snipped a longer post but I agreed with every word.

The banner disappeared with the new platform but people might want to check out the revised Mission Statement here: http://www.freejinger.org/mission-statement/

Quote

FOCUSING ON THE FLAWS OF FUNDAMENTALISM SINCE 2005

 

"Childbearing. Child rearing. Gender equality. Religion. Race. Regionalism. A woman's right to her body. Money/welfare. My god, everything my mama and Miss Manners ever said NOT to talk about among strangers!!"

Free Jinger is a free speech zone.  We do not allow hate speech and we limit direct discussion of children. If you don't like what someone is saying, challenge them. Logic and reason are prized here, as well as thoughtful debate. Be prepared to don your asbestos underoos, though.

If you are not okay with these topics, just leave. They are the point of this board.

Or, as one of our members said: "What is discussed in this forum is Supreme Court stuff--literally--...the venting might be ranting. No grammar police, no fully enforced punctuation rules, but please don't wade in if things religious and reproductive will harm your psyche, because this should be a safe place to marvel at the massive political and social movements about to overtake our nation. And recipes."

You have been warned. Welcome!

Note the "If you don't like what people are saying then challenge them" bit.

 

On 11/29/2016 at 8:44 PM, RoseWilder said:

I'm well aware of that, which is why I never attempted to tell anyone they can't disagree with them. I told them that I'm ignoring them because unless you're a moderator all you get to do is disagree with someone - you don't get to tell them what they do and don't have a right to post about. Disagree with me all you want, I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to be lectured into silence by a self-righteous poster who feels the need to talk to me like I'm a five-year-old and they're my mother. Fuck no to that. 

I think you forgot the "Neener, neener", "So there?" and "I'll talk all the BEC crap and fluff and gossip I want 'cos you can't stop me."

Really, I thought you were better than this, @RoseWilder.  If you are going to behave like a five year old than you may be treated like one.

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9 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

Do we really know if the Duggar girls have the same beliefs regarding children and birth control? We've heard Michelle countless times state she and Jimbob are against birth control and that children are a blessing and always be available to your husband, etc,etc. But have the daughters ever said these things?  If I remember right they have said things like seeing what the Lord brings or leaving it up to God but that doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if Michelle and Jimbob's view of procreation is being projected onto their children by default by leghumpers and snarkers alike, or if we know that they actually believe these things. 

That's a good point. As @Four is Enough astutely points out, Michelle and Jim Bob's idea of "leaving it up to God" seems to be more about having as many kids as physically possible than merely not using contraception.

Years ago I remember someone on another site saying something about how God was always in control because she got pregnant four times while using birth control. I can see fundies justifying NFP or even condoms as leaving it up to God, because He could break the condom or cause the woman to ovulate earlier than expected, and it's therefore okay to do those things as long as you're open to welcoming a child. That's not the same thing as something like an IUD or hormonal birth control, both of which "cause abortions" (I know, that's bullshit. But I'm using fundie logic here!). All of that, however, does require at least a cursory understanding of the various forms of birth control, and I'm pretty sure the only contraceptive education at the Duggar SOTDRT was the story of how the Pill murdered J'Caleb.

Considering that Jill and Jinger's husbands both come from (apparently) non-QF backgrounds, it's possible that both couples' understanding of leaving it up to God is a little more flexible than Ma and Pa Duggars'. Or perhaps they're in a four-way competition with Jessa and Anna to breed 20 arrows for God.

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6 minutes ago, alba said:

Considering that Jill and Jinger's husbands both come from (apparently) non-QF backgrounds, it's possible that both couples' understanding of leaving it up to God is a little more flexible than Ma and Pa Duggars'. Or perhaps they're in a four-way competition with Jessa and Anna to breed 20 arrows for God.

I suspect the latter.   Or perhaps it's "we want as many children as God gives us but we hope the hell we're not as fertile as Michelle!"

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And now, on a not at all obvious attempt to change the fucking subject :pb_lol::

Look! He isn't bruised! And he's not posing dangerously! And he's eating actual food!

I'm assuming this counts as legitimate proof for FJ that the Dills aren't completely negligent parents? Possibly? Maybe? Wishful thinking? :pb_lol:

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18 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

And now, on a not at all obvious attempt to change the fucking subject :pb_lol::

Look! He isn't bruised! And he's not posing dangerously! And he's eating actual food!

I'm assuming this counts as legitimate proof for FJ that the Dills aren't completely negligent parents? Possibly? Maybe? Wishful thinking? :pb_lol:

Ummm I don't see any fruits or vegetables in any of those pictures, I guess that means all his parents feed him is bread and cheese, those monsters!

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7 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

Ummm I don't see any fruits or vegetables in any of those pictures, I guess that means all his parents feed him is bread and cheese, those monsters!

I'm still waiting for confirmation from Jill that the cheese is organic and locally sourced. 

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On 11/29/2016 at 7:00 PM, Mercer said:

Bug wasn't there an episode where they did go to a fertility doctor after Josie?

He wasn't a fertility doctor.  TLC said that, but that doesn't change his credentials.  :mouse-shock:

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