Jill, Derick, Israel and the Shower Rack- Part 21

[Gillyweed]

2 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

I second everything @VelociRapture says.

@RoseWilder Self policing is a part of Free Jinger. There is also a long history of people disagreeing on topics and preceding to have epic fights/ discussions in thread. Sometimes people even learn new things and change their opinions! ::Gasp:: Bottom line anyone can and will call anyone else out on what they said. 

 

I prefer the Schrodinger’s Uterus approach. Right now the Duggers have 3 Schrodinger’s Uterus’s (Uteri?) (Anna, Jill and Jinger), 4 if you count Me-chelle. 

 

How old is Michelle? Didn't Janet Jackson have a baby at like 49? I wonder if Michelle and JB are praying for a miracle baby... That'd be weird to have a baby in your late 40s, especially when you have multiple grandchildren. 

For most normal people, it's very uncomfortable to think that your parents are still doing it. Instead, fundies seem to rejoice doing it 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

22 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

How old is Michelle? Didn't Janet Jackson have a baby at like 49? I wonder if Michelle and JB are praying for a miracle baby... That'd be weird to have a baby in your late 40s, especially when you have multiple grandchildren. 

For most normal people, it's very uncomfortable to think that your parents are still doing it. Instead, fundies seem to rejoice doing it 

Janet Jackson is 50 and she presumably used donor eggs. I can't see JB paying for or going along with that, even if they found a fertility clinic that would take them.

[CorruptionInc.]

A few Australian celebrities have had their first babies at 49.

While I don't mind this as they did desperately want children, I would like to hope Michelle's uterus is well and truly closed for business.

[eyerollsforjesus]

To clarify my post (Israel bruise collage) wasn't questioning toddlers and their determination to put themselves in danger. I should have been clearer but I'm questioning their participation/posts to social media as whole. The only conclusion that I can make is that they like the controversy? But why post pictures of him with a huge bruise, then nothing, then small mark, then nothing, then big bruise again. It's not as much as he keeps getting hurt, it's that they are purposefully promoting an image that he keeps getting hurt in with an unrealistic timeline between healing (like a day).

Same thing with him in El Salvador on a table, using his seat as stool, multiple posts of him in outgrown car seats. Why wouldn't they curate and post cute walking, hugging, smiling, kissing, etc not in questionable positions. Like the blanket pictures and the pictures of him screming. I just don't get it and don't know if it's a fundie thing Im missing or if anyone has any insight. Thanks! 

[RoseWilder]

4 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

 

@RoseWilder Self policing is a part of Free Jinger. There is also a long history of people disagreeing on topics and preceding to have epic fights/ discussions in thread. Sometimes people even learn new things and change their opinions! ::Gasp:: Bottom line anyone can and will call anyone else out on what they said. 

 

I'm well aware of that, which is why I never attempted to tell anyone they can't disagree with them. I told them that I'm ignoring them because unless you're a moderator all you get to do is disagree with someone - you don't get to tell them what they do and don't have a right to post about. Disagree with me all you want, I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to be lectured into silence by a self-righteous poster who feels the need to talk to me like I'm a five-year-old and they're my mother. Fuck no to that. 

[Mercer]

I don't think Michelle has the ability to become pregnant anymore. She hasn't had a confirmed pregnancy since 2011, which ended in stillbirth. (While it's possible that she's had miscarriages in the meantime, I highly doubt it - Michelle is obsessed with her uterus and desperate to stay relevant, so I think they would announce any pregnancy immediately.) She hasn't had a pregnancy resulting in a live birth since 2009, and that pregnancy came very close to a tragic ending also. We know they not only don't prevent but actively try to conceive when Michelle is not pregnant, so presumably if Michelle could have become pregnant during that time, she would have. When you take those facts along with being beyond standard maternal age and likely in perimenopause, the odds just aren't in her favor for being able to conceive. Even Michelle herself is no longer seriously hinting about possible pregnancy as far as I know. 

I know it's not impossible, but I would be very, very surprised if we see any more pregnancies from Michelle. Whether she likes it or not, it seems like her body is telling her she's done.

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Janet Jackson is 50 and she presumably used donor eggs. I can't see JB paying for or going along with that, even if they found a fertility clinic that would take them.

It would also mean they weren't leaving it up to gawd!! 

[Mercer]

I don't think an ethical doctor would agree to perform an assisted reproduction procedure for Michelle and Jim Bob at this point.

From a medical standpoint, it's simply too risky when you look at not only Michelle's advanced age but the negative outcomes of her past two pregnancies. Michelle could have died during her last two pregnancies, and no responsible doctor is going to sentence a patient to death over a purely voluntary decision such as having a baby. It's a matter of both conscience and potential malpractice. Having a patient die under their watch is not something doctors can afford to take lightly.

There should also be psychological red flags if the two of them sought fertility assistance. I think a doctor would be asking why a couple who have nineteen living children, ten of whom are still minors, are unable to be content with that, because it points to a deeper issue that can't be resolved by another conception. There's going to come a point where simply having baby after baby isn't going to be physically possible even with reproductive tech, so the Duggars are eventually going to need another solution and delaying that inevitability doesn't help them. I suspect a doctor would gently refer them for psychological care rather than proceeding with reproductive procedures.

The Duggars have a right to bear as many children as they want to and are able to - but doctors swear the Hippocratic Oath, and are not obligated to assist them in making a poor decision. I think that using medical means to help Michelle conceive at this point would be a pretty big violation of "first do no harm."

[patsymae]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I don't think an ethical doctor would agree to perform an assisted reproduction procedure for Michelle and Jim Bob at this point.

From a medical standpoint, it's simply too risky when you look at not only Michelle's advanced age but the negative outcomes of her past two pregnancies. Michelle could have died during her last two pregnancies, and no responsible doctor is going to sentence a patient to death over a purely voluntary decision such as having a baby. It's a matter of both conscience and potential malpractice. Having a patient die under their watch is not something doctors can afford to take lightly.

There should also be psychological red flags if the two of them sought fertility assistance. I think a doctor would be asking why a couple who have nineteen living children, ten of whom are still minors, are unable to be content with that, because it points to a deeper issue that can't be resolved by another conception. There's going to come a point where simply having baby after baby isn't going to be physically possible even with reproductive tech, so the Duggars are eventually going to need another solution and delaying that inevitability doesn't help them. I suspect a doctor would gently refer them for psychological care rather than proceeding with reproductive procedures.

The Duggars have a right to bear as many children as they want to and are able to - but doctors swear the Hippocratic Oath, and are not obligated to assist them in making a poor decision. I think that using medical means to help Michelle conceive at this point would be a pretty big violation of "first do no harm."

Bug wasn't there an episode where they did go to a fertility doctor after Josie?

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, patsymae said:

Bug wasn't there an episode where they did go to a fertility doctor after Josie?

They did, but it wasn't clear 1.) whether they were actually seeking help in conceiving, or simply wanted the doctor to determine whether Michelle was still likely to be fertile, and 2.) if they were seeking that, whether the doctor actually agreed to provide fertility intervention, since no baby was forthcoming in the meantime.

 

[Bad Wolf]

19 children +1 guardianship. 

[LovelyLuna]

2 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

I'm well aware of that, which is why I never attempted to tell anyone they can't disagree with them. I told them that I'm ignoring them because unless you're a moderator all you get to do is disagree with someone - you don't get to tell them what they do and don't have a right to post about. Disagree with me all you want, I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to be lectured into silence by a self-righteous poster who feels the need to talk to me like I'm a five-year-old and they're my mother. Fuck no to that. 

Hu, I thought thats what the ignore button was for...

 

[marmalade]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

I don't think Michelle has the ability to become pregnant anymore. She hasn't had a confirmed pregnancy since 2011, which ended in stillbirth. (While it's possible that she's had miscarriages in the meantime, I highly doubt it - Michelle is obsessed with her uterus and desperate to stay relevant, so I think they would announce any pregnancy immediately.) She hasn't had a pregnancy resulting in a live birth since 2009, and that pregnancy came very close to a tragic ending also. We know they not only don't prevent but actively try to conceive when Michelle is not pregnant, so presumably if Michelle could have become pregnant during that time, she would have. When you take those facts along with being beyond standard maternal age and likely in perimenopause, the odds just aren't in her favor for being able to conceive. Even Michelle herself is no longer seriously hinting about possible pregnancy as far as I know. 

I know it's not impossible, but I would be very, very surprised if we see any more pregnancies from Michelle. Whether she likes it or not, it seems like her body is telling her she's done.

Remember that Michelle went to that fertility specialist several years ago during the 19Kids run. He confirmed back then that she was in perimenopause. Now, perimenopause can last one year or ten. But, at any rate, she's had bloodwork to confirm that she was in that "season of life" at least three years ago. She's 50 now, average age of menopause is 51, so odds are extremely low that she will ever conceive again, let alone have a viable pregnancy. 

[grandmadugger]

20 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Remember that Michelle went to that fertility specialist several years ago during the 19Kids run. He confirmed back then that she was in perimenopause. Now, perimenopause can last one year or ten. But, at any rate, she's had bloodwork to confirm that she was in that "season of life" at least three years ago. She's 50 now, average age of menopause is 51, so odds are extremely low that she will ever conceive again, let alone have a viable pregnancy. 

Just turn everyone's tummy my mom was told she was starting menopause and her chance to have a child was over. I arrived 41 weeks or around there I'm guessing. Of course this was almost 40 years ago and she hadn't had a billion kids already. 

[marmalade]

Well, Michelle had bloodwork done by a specialist, so I'm thinking that she's not going to have any surprise babies anytime soon, or ever. 

[SportsgalAnnie]

I spend one day freaking out that a town near and dear to my heart is burnt to a crisp  and see he said she said stuff . Can we spend less time bickering about he said she said and focus on snarking at the topic on hand?

 

[ophelia]

12 hours ago, LovelyLuna said:

I prefer the Schrodinger’s Uterus approach. Right now the Duggers have 3 Schrodinger’s Uterus’s (Uteri?) (Anna, Jill and Jinger), 4 if you count Me-chelle. 

 

This is one of the best things I EVER read an FJ!! Thank you, @LovelyLuna for making my day!

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

19 children +1 guardianship. 

Plus all the weird long-term residencies (semi-fostering?) of the many random teenagers/young people.  I'm really interested in what that means - if it's Jill or Boob that seems to want to jam-pack the house as full as possible?

(I'm also really worried they'll find an adoption agency to let them buy babies from abroad... the potential for them to become full-on child-collectors is huge)

[RoseWilder]

I just caught up on the upcoming fundie babies thread (over in the snark section) and there's an ongoing discussion over whether a certain fundie is pregnant or not based on pictures where someone thinks she looks pregnant. There has been no announcement, the discussion is all based on a picture. 

I guess all the "you have no right to body shame others" posters better rush over there and start lecturing them about how wrong they are. 

This kind of discussion, about whether a fundie is pregnant, based on pictures, has been a regular and consistent part of this board for as long as I've been posting (and as long as I've been reading, and I've been reading here practically since the beginning.) And it's apparently a totally accepted part of board culture, despite the lectures I've been getting to the contrary. 

[nickelodeon]

Who cares if Jill is pregnant though? We've already seen what an annoying pregnant person she is. Why do y'all want to go back to the dark ages of chalkboards and constantly dressing up in her "Virgin Mary" costume (which usually involved towels on her head, MESSY AF) like every day was the fucking Best Christmas Pageant Ever? No thank you, not interested, not worth scrutinizing the lady's gut over.

[Melissa1977]

13 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

A few Australian celebrities have had their first babies at 49.

While I don't mind this as they did desperately want children, I would like to hope Michelle's uterus is well and truly closed for business.

They are women in their 50s that got pregnant in a natural way. There are even 60 years old women who have had babies with medical help. But any of them had had 19 kids before (including 5 C-sections). No way Michelle could carry a baby. She was just 44 (?) when she had Josie, which is not such an extreme age, and look what happened.

 

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

Plus all the weird long-term residencies (semi-fostering?) of the many random teenagers/young people.  I'm really interested in what that means - if it's Jill or Boob that seems to want to jam-pack the house as full as possible?

(I'm also really worried they'll find an adoption agency to let them buy babies from abroad... the potential for them to become full-on child-collectors is huge)

Or maybe at this point they are just praying about children marrying and finally have a quiet house.

I'm sure Michelle has suffered a lot for not having #20 but once she accepted that, she can enjoy the little girls and rest. I know at this point she probably doesn't even know how to bond with her children, but she has the opportunity to have a relationship with the little ones. They are old enough to help at home, so life gets easier.

 

[JesSky03]

3 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

I just caught up on the upcoming fundie babies thread (over in the snark section) and there's an ongoing discussion over whether a certain fundie is pregnant or not based on pictures where someone thinks she looks pregnant. There has been no announcement, the discussion is all based on a picture. 

I guess all the "you have no right to body shame others" posters better rush over there and start lecturing them about how wrong they are. 

This kind of discussion, about whether a fundie is pregnant, based on pictures, has been a regular and consistent part of this board for as long as I've been posting (and as long as I've been reading, and I've been reading here practically since the beginning.) And it's apparently a totally accepted part of board culture, despite the lectures I've been getting to the contrary. 

Speculating on pregnancy is generally not acceptable out in the real world (at least is shouldn't, not everyone seems to understands this) so when it happens on FJ it does automatically make some people uncomfortable. You may have your reasons for justifying such speculation, but it's never going to be okay for some people. I for one, do not like it, even with the argument that they put their fertility out on display. I posted on facebook about my miscarriage and about our struggles to conceive, but I don't think that gives anyone the right to analyze my body to see if I'm pregnant yet or ask rude invasive questions. 

So anyway, she disagreed with you. There are others who disagree as well. Try to see if from the other side and move on. 

[BamaBelle]

12 hours ago, Mercer said:

They did, but it wasn't clear 1.) whether they were actually seeking help in conceiving, or simply wanted the doctor to determine whether Michelle was still likely to be fertile, and 2.) if they were seeking that, whether the doctor actually agreed to provide fertility intervention, since no baby was forthcoming in the meantime.

 

They actually went to see a maternal-fetal medicine specialist. They are doctors who specialize in high-risk pregnancy. Which with all of the issues to Michelle's health during the Josie pregnancy, no regular OB would have taken her on as a patient. Only the most careless, fame hungry fertility specialists (think octo-mom doc) would work with them now. I'm sure somewhere a doctor has the papaerwork sitting on a shelf for a Arkansas medical license already filled out and is just waiting for the call.  

[nolongerIFBx]

On 11/28/2016 at 5:09 PM, actuallyjessica said:

would they deem this as "immodest"?

My opinion as a former IFB extremist, yes. If the hem were all the longer length, it would possibly meet "standards", as it would reach the top of the knee. Any churches requiring that the length be mid or bottom the knee still would not pass it. Then there are the leggings. Some would say that as long as the top/dress met the above, leggings would be fine. But a church I was in outlawed them because if the model was wearing a coat, no one would know that the top/dress met standards and might think she was just wearing a tunic and leggings and we must "abstain from the appearance of evil." And for the most extreme, you have that necklace going down between and separating the breasts. Very defrauding.

I'm still pretty "modest" in my dress, but this is totally my style. Very cute!

As to the Jill ill fitting shirt discussion, in my opinion, it kindof ties in here. Jill's pregnancy/nursing affected her bust line quite a bit. She is now experiencing what many of us "blessed" do. Do you buy the size of your bust or the size of the rest of you? You throw in Jill's training on modesty and she is going to buy large clothes to prevent tightness around her bust (defrauding) so she ends up in a much larger size. No body shaming from me on either her bust or waistline, just my opinion of what is going on with her current clothes choices.

[Lurky]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Or maybe at this point they are just praying about children marrying and finally have a quiet house.

There's no evidence for this - they're adopting a family member, and seem to have at least 3 non-related kidults living with them at the moment.  If they wanted a quiet house, I can see maybe keeping Tabitha Paine around as a supplementary J'Slave, but they're not exactly lacking teen/20s young men.

7 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Speculating on pregnancy is generally not acceptable out in the real world (at least is shouldn't, not everyone seems to understands this) so when it happens on FJ it does automatically make some people uncomfortable. You may have your reasons for justifying such speculation, but it's never going to be okay for some people. I for one, do not like it, even with the argument that they put their fertility out on display. I posted on facebook about my miscarriage and about our struggles to conceive, but I don't think that gives anyone the right to analyze my body to see if I'm pregnant yet or ask rude invasive questions. 

Same.  Saying "She looks fat, is she pregnant?" should get push-back anywhere in the "real world", because it's hugely insensitive, and no matter how people dress it up as "that's not a flattering top (trans: she looks fat), maybe she's pregnant", it's still body-shaming.  I'm not sure how people can think any sentence that starts "she looks fat" is anything else.

Personally, the idea of saying that kind of thing, and finding out that maybe she's just had a miscarriage, or maybe she "just" hates herself because she has put on weight, and feels so judged, is abhorrent to me.  I wouldn't want to be part of adding that kind of pain to other people, so I go by the "wait until she tells me she's pregnant".  I completely understand that other FJers don't agree, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be happy when I see it.