Jill, Derick, Israel and the Shower Rack- Part 21

[samurai_sarah]

Carry on from here:

Last post by @19BabyGerkins

Quote

Please know I did not mean for it to sound so harsh.  I really just feel like they (the producers perhaps) try to make it seem more than what it was.  Yes her fear is real and I do not dismiss that for a second.  I just felt like it was built up to be a big deal.  Producers perhaps more than she??? 

 

[Carm_88]

23 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

Bingo! They should not be there at all. They are not doing anything useful there anyway. I'm pissed because they are putting themselves in such danger for nothing.

That's what I don't get. Jill's fear is real, ridiculous when you hear what it was but real, and they choose to go back. Why do these people feel so righteous and entitled that they have to tell other people who are Christians (Not in their eyes) that they are wrong? Why are you both so stupid? 

[Grimalkin]

@19BabyGerkins , I did not want you to feel attacked by my disagreeing with you.  I just wanted to relay my point clearly. 

        I don't know if it was the producers drumming up drama or if reality is setting in. Jill literally believes she was created to be Derrik's helpmeet. Does she even feel like she could tell her husband she does not want to go back to CA? She knows it is what he wants, even if he asked her I don't know if she would say anything. I imagine she feels completely powerless to even protect her child. I'm sure her emotions are doing all sorts or weird things.

[titerlitury]

Jill is not ready for "missionary" lifestyle. Even if she thinks different. I don't know if she is ready for any adult life without her family behind.

I was thinking what excuse they'll find for staying Arkansas, today I read about earthquake. So they won't go now, it's too dangerous. Then Jessa's labour, then anybody's whatever, then Jill's pregnant. 

But I believe they will also use actual situation for some grifting and PR. I can see them going to Sintral America for couple of days, for wonderful footage to Counting On. Look, we are so godly, we help these poor people with our gifts (well, gifts from our fans) and lot of pray. What would they do, without us, godly saviors.

[Bad Wolf]

I was reading that the zika virus can affect babies who appear normal at birth. It can show up later. So if they really want to get pregnant, they should probably stay here. Of course praying will fix everything.

[freejoy]

When I was watching the Aftershow, I was realizing for the first time that Jill was actually having a very hard time down there.

Before that, I was thinking she was whining a little here and there, but she seemed fine. After seeing that footage she seemed just unhappy with being in Central America. It hit me how bad she must find being there and there is nothing she can do since Derrick is the leader she has to obey to... At the moment she seems very happy and I bet she is dreading to go back, she is hoping to get knocked up to have a reason to stay in AR.

[alba]

Did anyone else see this?



I'm not familiar with the organisations tagged, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see Jilly promoting JOBS for women.

[Stormy]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I was reading that the zika virus can affect babies who appear normal at birth. It can show up later. So if they really want to get pregnant, they should probably stay here. Of course praying will fix everything.

I'm not sure how one of the girls would handle it if they wound up with a baby with profound disabilities. Since Michelle managed to have healthy child after healthy child (with Josie as the exception, but even she seems to be doing better), I don't think it's crossed their minds.

[candygirl200413]

While I also read the article about Zika staying in the body, I was also thinking they still don't have jobs... and if they do have a baby with profound disabilities then I'm also like how would they even afford that?

[Kittikatz]

With regard to Jill's continued shower caddy induced trauma - I think a lot of the crying is for show, but if she is experiencing that level of fear over an objectively minor incident that happened months ago, she's clearly not emotionally suited to the mission field.

And that's okay. Some people are just not emotionally resilient enough to handle a life outside of whatever their 'safe zone' is. Sometimes they get better at dealing with life as they gain more experience, other times they never do. Given how sheltered and emotionally stunted the Duggar spawn seem to be, it would not surprise me at all if she simply wasn't able to make the mental adaptations necessary to successfully adapt to El Salvador. And I doubt that anyone she's around is going to have the knowledge/skills to help her learn to deal. 

My mother and one cousin are a lot like Jill - father's favourite, love to be in the centre of attention and always doing the 'right' thing and/or living right. Tears at the drop of a hat, and they both can get honestly that upset over things that, to me, are trivial. Because they have zero coping skills, and have avoided gaining life experience, and they don't know how to do better.

Other times, I think the overly emotional reaction is simply something they do out of habit or because it's familiar. They both know how to cry/breakdown/whinge and do it because it's an effective way to get attention and manipulate people into giving sympathy/attention/doing bidding while still being "good". Positive feedback loop. No incentive to change or to develop different skills or ways of coping with the world. They can cry, get tea and sympathy and sometimes have the world change around them without ever having to have an assertive conversation.

 

[freejoy]

2 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

With regard to Jill's continued shower caddy induced trauma - I think a lot of the crying is for show, but if she is experiencing that level of fear over an objectively minor incident that happened months ago, she's clearly not emotionally suited to the mission field.

And that's okay. Some people are just not emotionally resilient enough to handle a life outside of whatever their 'safe zone' is. Sometimes they get better at dealing with life as they gain more experience, other times they never do. Given how sheltered and emotionally stunted the Duggar spawn seem to be, it would not surprise me at all if she simply wasn't able to make the mental adaptations necessary to successfully adapt to El Salvador. And I doubt that anyone she's around is going to have the knowledge/skills to help her learn to deal. 

My mother and one cousin are a lot like Jill - father's favourite, love to be in the centre of attention and always doing the 'right' thing and/or living right. Tears at the drop of a hat, and they both can get honestly that upset over things that, to me, are trivial. Because they have zero coping skills, and have avoided gaining life experience, and they don't know how to do better.

Other times, I think the overly emotional reaction is simply something they do out of habit or because it's familiar. They both know how to cry/breakdown/whinge and do it because it's an effective way to get attention and manipulate people into giving sympathy/attention/doing bidding while still being "good". Positive feedback loop. No incentive to change or to develop different skills or ways of coping with the world. They can cry, get tea and sympathy and sometimes have the world change around them without ever having to have an assertive conversation.

 

Very well said!

I really think JillyMuffin thought mission field is what everyone wants her to do and she can cope with anything since praying can make everything better. But this is probably the first time in her life she is thrown in a complete new surrounding and she just cannot cope with it. And given her circumstances, that's not out of the ordinary. Derrick on the other hand knew a lot more of what he was getting himself into since he lived in the real world and probably read newspapers about cruel things happening in the world.

[chipmunk]

Why does Derick look so scruffy now compared to when he courted and married Jill? Jill looks the same as she ever did, but Derick has really let his personal grooming slide!

[2manyKidzzz]

I think that Jilly thought she would be overwhelmed with feelings of Happiness at "saving" the Catholics and that would conquer everything else. Being alone a lot in a house with a toddler and wild shower racks is not what she anticipated. Where are the grateful villagers thanking her for saving them? Where are they? I dunno and neither does she. 

[SassyPants]

8 hours ago, freejoy said:

Very well said!

I really think JillyMuffin thought mission field is what everyone wants her to do and she can cope with anything since praying can make everything better. But this is probably the first time in her life she is thrown in a complete new surrounding and she just cannot cope with it. And given her circumstances, that's not out of the ordinary. Derrick on the other hand knew a lot more of what he was getting himself into since he lived in the real world and probably read newspapers about cruel things happening in the world.

And remember this move and lifestyle change was all on top of:

Having had a C-section instead of a drug free home birth

The world knowing what Josh did - both to them and with other women

The show being cancelled

Derick quitting his job

Derick having surgery

The reality of having a newborn baby to care for

 

Jill was ill-prepared for life outside of Duggarville and THIS LIFE (the one in CA) is very different.

Jill would have a hard enough living in Little Rock or OKC, let alone CA.

 

[Stormy]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

And remember this move and lifestyle change was all on top of:

Having had a C-section instead of a drug free home birth

The world knowing what Josh did - both to them and with other women

The show being cancelled

Derick quitting his job

Derick having surgery

The reality of having a newborn baby to care for

 

Jill was ill-prepared for life outside of Duggarville and THIS LIFE (the one in CA) is very different.

Jill would have a hard enough living in Little Rock or OKC, let alone CA.

 

All of this would be hard enough on anybody, let alone someone like Jill. My mom had to have an emergency C-section with me and it scared the shit out of her, coupled with some nasty post-partum depression that prompted her to quit her job. Fortunately, my dad was a 50-50 parent and was able to compensate and support her. I can't imagine what this would have been like on top of moving to another country and/or having your family's dirty laundry on public display.

[Terrier99]

On 11/25/2016 at 3:15 PM, titerlitury said:

Jill is not ready for "missionary" lifestyle.

Mind went to the wrong place..........

[Carm_88]

On 11/25/2016 at 4:45 PM, titerlitury said:

Jill is not ready for "missionary" lifestyle. Even if she thinks different. I don't know if she is ready for any adult life without her family behind.

Jill is not ready for an adult life without her family behind her. None of the Duggars are, they need the support of Mommy and Daddy because they never were taught to deal with the reality of life.

[Mercer]

Regarding the shower rack thing: Yeah, people feel what they feel and emotions aren't wrong, we're all different, and emotional resources vary from person to person and from situation to situation. I'm not inclined to be harsh with Jill that it still bothers her.

That said, it is valid to say, "Hey, your reaction seems a little disproportionate to the actual event. Is something else going on?" When reactions seem really extreme for an extended period of time, there is probably an underlying issue. Unless that underlying issue is addressed, the person can't move forward. 

In this case, I assume the underlying issue is that Jill doesn't feel safe in El Salvador and may have mixed or negative feelings about being there - and she's expressing that by focusing on the smaller and more manageable event of one time she got scared. To move forward, she needs to either resolve those feelings by working through them or acknowledge that she does not have the emotional resources to remain in that situation.

I'm not going to snark on Jill for being upset about the shower rack, but I do think it should be giving her a clue that she has some work to do on getting herself into a better headspace.

[eyerollsforjesus]

The warped timeline to social media makes it look like Izzy's eye hurt off and on for over a month. (Which of course I hope is not the case). Hopefully he just fell once and they spaced the pictures. I just don't understand why they keep posting without saying he bumped his head. Just odd how they use social media. 

 

[Stormy]

10 hours ago, Mercer said:

Regarding the shower rack thing: Yeah, people feel what they feel and emotions aren't wrong, we're all different, and emotional resources vary from person to person and from situation to situation. I'm not inclined to be harsh with Jill that it still bothers her.

That said, it is valid to say, "Hey, your reaction seems a little disproportionate to the actual event. Is something else going on?" When reactions seem really extreme for an extended period of time, there is probably an underlying issue. Unless that underlying issue is addressed, the person can't move forward. 

In this case, I assume the underlying issue is that Jill doesn't feel safe in El Salvador and may have mixed or negative feelings about being there - and she's expressing that by focusing on the smaller and more manageable event of one time she got scared. To move forward, she needs to either resolve those feelings by working through them or acknowledge that she does not have the emotional resources to remain in that situation.

I'm not going to snark on Jill for being upset about the shower rack, but I do think it should be giving her a clue that she has some work to do on getting herself into a better headspace.

Also consider that her tears were in reference to how scared she felt after hearing the crash (not knowing what it was), not the shower curtain itself. I watched the clip and, according to Jill, it was: fear of crime in El Salvador --> hearing a crash at home --> running and hiding with Israel and laptop --> *present day crying* --> eventually coming out of hiding and discovering that it was just the shower curtain.

That being said, the fact that she began to cry when recounting the story instead of either shrugging or laughing it off (or at least remaining calm) does indicate that it struck a chord with some underlying issue (like not being cut out for Sintral America). I've just noticed that there's a misunderstanding in regards to the source of Jill's fear.

[Snarkle Motion]

I think Jill is depressed and has been for a while. Her whole life she was taught just believe and pray and do everything your headship says and you'll live a fairt tale life. I think she put a lot of pressure on herself to have a natural home birth and felt that she "failed." Her perfect family image is no more. Missionary life is much harder than she thought. She hasn't gotten pregnant again. None of this is how it was "supposed" to be and her religion tells them that bad things in life are a result of sin. I'm no fan of Jill but I do think that has to be an incredibly hard wake up call. 

[Stormy]

18 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I think Jill is depressed and has been for a while. Her whole life she was taught just believe and pray and do everything your headship says and you'll live a fairy tale life. I think she put a lot of pressure on herself to have a natural home birth and felt that she "failed." Her perfect family image is no more. Missionary life is much harder than she thought. She hasn't gotten pregnant again. None of this is how it was "supposed" to be and her religion tells them that bad things in life are a result of sin. I'm no fan of Jill but I do think that has to be an incredibly hard wake up call. 

Even though my dreams and principals are quite a bit different than that of the Duggars, as far as to why anybody would want to live this way...I get it.

If each child as an unmitigated blessing -- an ever-replenishing source of joy and fulfillment, for sure -- following the a hyped covenant marriage with all of the deep spiritual enrichment it brings, I can totally see why some women find this appealing. Stay in a bubble with only you and your loved ones, have lots of blessings and train them up (which is super simple and easy!), and let God and your husband make any hard decisions. Just follow some rules, be submissive, and dress a certain way, and your life will be perfect. If you're already religious, want a large family, and/or have a naturally passive nature, it sounds like a fantasy.

[lomo6]

2 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I think Jill is depressed and has been for a while. Her whole life she was taught just believe and pray and do everything your headship says and you'll live a fairt tale life. I think she put a lot of pressure on herself to have a natural home birth and felt that she "failed." Her perfect family image is no more. Missionary life is much harder than she thought. She hasn't gotten pregnant again. None of this is how it was "supposed" to be and her religion tells them that bad things in life are a result of sin. I'm no fan of Jill but I do think that has to be an incredibly hard wake up call. 

Excellent take.

And quite frankly, everything had been going Jill's way until very recently, perhaps making her current situation harder to accept. She was the first Duggar girl to get married, and her hubby was a cute guy with a legit college degree who was living abroad doing missionary work in Nepal. Definitely beats Jessa's unemployed teenager or Josh's trailer park Cindy Lou Who (though I do have a soft spot for Anna). Then she got pregnant right away, maybe the first time she ever had sex - and for these girls, that is everything.

[Purrl]

I got that feeling that the shower rod was not the whole story. It seems like they cut the tape before she/Derrick finished what they had to say. He also seemed a little hesitant to say more. Her reaction did seem over the top for the little they shared. I think something happened before the rod falling that really scared her and she thought it was happening again.

[Grimalkin]

3 hours ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I think Jill is depressed and has been for a while. Her whole life she was taught just believe and pray and do everything your headship says and you'll live a fairt tale life. I think she put a lot of pressure on herself to have a natural home birth and felt that she "failed." Her perfect family image is no more. Missionary life is much harder than she thought. She hasn't gotten pregnant again. None of this is how it was "supposed" to be and her religion tells them that bad things in life are a result of sin. I'm no fan of Jill but I do think that has to be an incredibly hard wake up call. 

     I have read on No Longer Quivering and on similar sites that many of these people don't even know how to identify their emotions. They grew up denying every emotion they don't know how to handle them. like it has been mentioned she has had so many changes in her life it must be a lot to take in. I do think that she probably is not ready to be doing missions now.

       Ultimately, I am an optimist and really believe If she really really wanted to she could overcome. She has to want to and be willing to put the work in. Any of them can. Wether they do or not is a different story, and it does seem unlikely.