All Things My Lady Bibliophile

[Carm_88]

6 minutes ago, dairyfreelife said:

I grew up Protestant, but my neighborhood friends were Catholic and I went to their church time to time. I hope she means her and her family do not endorse Catholicism and not Protestants in general. Because that is a seriously false statement as many Protestants I know DO consider Catholics just a different branch of Christianity. 

Also to say they don't know the grace of Jesus Christ is a huge brush to paint and I have known many Catholics and I dare MLB to tell any one of them they are wrong and don't know Jesus Christ like she does. 

Oh but that's not a new thing for fundies at all. They spend their time trying to convert Catholics because they totally don't believe that we know anything about Jesus. If you say to fundies that you're Catholic, you might as well be Norse. Saying that oyu believe in Odin and sacrificing goats to the gods. 

[Lurky]

10 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Oh but that's not a new thing for fundies at all. They spend their time trying to convert Catholics because they totally don't believe that we know anything about Jesus. If you say to fundies that you're Catholic, you might as well be Norse. Saying that oyu believe in Odin and sacrificing goats to the gods. 

In one of her blogs, LB talks about how it's ok for her to read books with Catholic characters, but she has friends who converted from Catholicism, and wouldn't recommend books with Catholics in, in case it caused them to stumble....  complete with the most patronising reference to "baby Christians".

(Whenever I read statements like that, or about how one must be so careful about reading etc etc, it always makes me wonder, because they all seem to describe Fundy Christianity as weak, and vulnerable, and the Fundies have to be carefully kept from scary outside influences, because it's so easy to stray.  I just can't relate - let's compare it to my vegetarianism, which is something I really believe in, but isn't the most important cornerstone of my belief system/moral code.  Ever since I turned veggie, my family didn't like it, and I got a lot of grief about it.  I've read all kinds of things that include meat-eating, and descriptions of delicious-sounding meaty meals etc, and I've read & talked about all kinds of arguments against vegetarianism - and had people try to convert me to veganism - and my vegetarianism survives just fine.  And that's nowhere near the same as someone's faith.)

[LilMissMetaphor]

So she's reviewed like...120 books.  (I didn't count them, but estimated).  Are those the only books she's READ or just the only ones she bothered to review? If that's all she's read, she actually writes pretty well given how little teen/adult reading she's done.  But I'd take away marks anyway based on how narrow the scope of her reading is.  Seriously child, if you're going to call yourself a bibliophile, at least start with--oh, I don't know, Time's 100 best books or something, if only to appear a teensy bit more credible!     

[Rachel333]

MLB has a whole post on Catholicism and whether it's okay to read a book with Catholic characters. She says yes, with caveats. You shouldn't read about Catholics if it will be a stumbling block for you, and you need to look at how the book portrays Catholicism. http://ladybibliophile.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-roman-catholicism.html

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We must take the Catholicism a little deeper, and ask ourselves "Did the author put in Catholicism to promote false doctrine, or to faithfully portray a legitimate time period in history?"

Haha, as opposed to illegitimate time periods in history? I don't think she meant much by that but I do wonder how she feels about alternate history fiction. I used to hate the idea of books like that for some reason -- I guess I used to read a lot of historical fiction and wanted the HF to be as accurate as possible, so alternate history seemed the opposite of that to me -- but at some point over the last few years that has changed and I find those ideas really intriguing. Out of the books on the list I linked I've only read The Eyre Affair*, but Man in the High Castle, The Years of Rice and Salt, The Yiddish Policemen's Union, and 11/22/63 are all books I want to read.

(As an aside, did you know that Newt Gingrich -- yes, that Newt Gingrich -- has co-written several alternate history books? I had no idea.)

*I love Jasper Fforde's books. The Thursday Next series is so fun if you like books and I think Lady Bibliophile would actually really enjoy them were it not for the language--there's a character named Jack Schitt and that would require a lot of tape to censor his name every time!--and undoubtedly other immoralities she would find there.

[Coy Koi]

Did you guys see her four-part series on "How to Deal With Dirty Words"?

She didn't link the parts together, so because I know this is one of the most pressing concerns we all face, I will include links to each part.

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Part Four

[Rachel333]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

(Whenever I read statements like that, or about how one must be so careful about reading etc etc, it always makes me wonder, because they all seem to describe Fundy Christianity as weak, and vulnerable, and the Fundies have to be carefully kept from scary outside influences, because it's so easy to stray.  I just can't relate - let's compare it to my vegetarianism, which is something I really believe in, but isn't the most important cornerstone of my belief system/moral code.  Ever since I turned veggie, my family didn't like it, and I got a lot of grief about it.  I've read all kinds of things that include meat-eating, and descriptions of delicious-sounding meaty meals etc, and I've read & talked about all kinds of arguments against vegetarianism - and had people try to convert me to veganism - and my vegetarianism survives just fine.  And that's nowhere near the same as someone's faith.)

So you mean that to stay vegetarian you don't have to go to a building filled with other vegetarians, sing songs about how wonderful vegetarianism is, and listen to a sermon about why you're right and everyone else is wrong? 

I'm a vegetarian too by the way, and I've been vegetarian since I was 7 so I can relate a lot to what you're saying there! I'm very secure as a vegetarian and feel as tempted to eat meat as I am to eat my socks. Seeing someone eat meat doesn't make me want to eat meat too. I really don't care at all if people eat meat in front of me.

Spiritually speaking I do think a lot of believers feel very insecure about their faith. In my own experience I grew up fundie-lite/fundie-adjacent and people in that community worry so much about their kids being exposed to anti-Christian material.

My own parents didn't want me reading books about people who follow other religions unless there's a positive Christian character in the book. So, for example, I couldn't read the Kaya American Girl books because they mention Native American spirituality and it is set before Christians had contacted her tribe. I was also into the short-lived Girls of Many Lands series and wanted to read the book about Minuk, a Yup'ik girl in 1890's Alaska. My dad looked at reviews though and saw that there were Christian missionaries who were portrayed in a bad light while the Yup'ik culture was portrayed positively, so he decided I shouldn't read it. (Even though Christian missionaries behaving badly really did happen!) It wasn't an outright order, just a strong suggestion, so eventually I guiltily checked the book out in secret anyway and read it. It was actually a lot more balanced than my dad thought and portrayed positive and negative elements of both Yup'ik and Christian culture.

 A big motivation for a lot of homeschooling parents is to keep their kids from being taught things like evolution or sex-ed. I knew a guy who was homeschooled up until college and was studying to become a vet (he graduated from vet school last year!). I think he did a biology major for undergrad and I remember that he had to take a required course in Evolutionary Biology. He was nervous about it and asked for prayer towards the end of the semester because he said evolution was starting to make too much sense to him and the creationism arguments were weaker than he thought when they aren't solely presented in opposition to fictional dumb strawman evolutionist characters that Creationists like to include.

That incident really stuck out to me in my memory because it seems so sad to have to fight not to believe something that makes sense. The thing is though, that while at that point I was Christian and had long since accepted the theory of evolution and no longer felt guilty about doing so, I could still relate to him somewhat because I was questioning Christianity and it really scared me. I'd sometimes peek at counterapologetics websites and some of the arguments made a lot of sense so then I'd try to avoid them. I was always counselled to read more of the BIble if I was struggling with doubt and so I did, but unless I stuck to a few safe chapters I felt like I was always reading something horribly violent or misogynistic that just hurt my faith even more. When I was still trying to hold on to those last, frayed strings of my faith I wouldn't read the Bible at all because the Bible only made it harder for me to believe. After years of struggling against unbelief I finally admitted to myself that I just didn't believe anymore.

Losing my faith was horrible absolutely the hardest thing I have ever gone through, but ultimately I'm glad it happened. Now that I'm on the other side of that crisis of faith I just feel so mentally free compared to how I felt before. I can look at both sides of an issue and not be scared that "my" side might have the weaker argument. I don't have to do the mental gymnastics of apologetics anymore to come up with convoluted ways to think about things that could support your beliefs.

I'm not saying I'm right either. Of course I think I probably am (doesn't everyone?), but if I'm not then that's okay! I can read Christian apologetics without fearing that they might have some good arguments, which is the way I used to read counterapologetics. I don't feel threatened at all when someone preaches against atheism the way that many Christians feel about prominent atheists. I don't really see myself returning to theism and I haven't seen any arguments that have even come close to convincing me, but if I am someday convinced enough to return to believing in God and/or Christianity, then that's fine! I want to always be willing to change my mind; I don't want to be so attached to an idea that I'll ignore better evidence against it.

TL;DR: It is really wonderful to not have to be afraid of simple information. It makes me sad that fundies have such fear and, IMO, it also shows how truly insecure they are about their faith.

(Edit: I don't want this to sound like "I'm such a wonderful free thinker unlike those fundie sheeple." Everyone is subject to congitive biases like confirmation bias, and you can't get rid of it so I think the best we can do is to try to be as aware of it as possible and check ourselves for when we might be exhibiting it. I've been thinking lately about what my personal values are and one thing I value highly is open-mindedness, in that I want to always be willing to change my mind if presented with better evidence. I wouldn't say I'm there yet, but that's what I want to try to be.)

(Oh, and contrary to what conspiracy theorists tend to say, open-mindedness does not, however, mean that I have to seriously consider every crazy, evidence-poor, idea that comes around!)

Edited November 20, 2016 by Rachel333

[Coy Koi]

Forgot to put my favorite part from the "Help! Scary language!" series. Authenticity is no excuse to use no-no words, at least not if you don't lock it in a highly-secure vault accessible only to Chicago gang members. And surround it with a moat filled with special-snowflake-Christian-eating alligators.

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Perhaps some argument could be made for "authenticity" if you were only reaching the group you're trying to be authentic to. But if you're marketing your "authentic" book to help save gang members in Chicago, then keep it well away from conservative Christian high school students.

 

[desertvixen]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

(Whenever I read statements like that, or about how one must be so careful about reading etc etc, it always makes me wonder, because they all seem to describe Fundy Christianity as weak, and vulnerable, and the Fundies have to be carefully kept from scary outside influences, because it's so easy to stray.

@Lurky, you and me both.  It seems like faith should be less affected by the world.

Adding "being Catholic" (I'm lapsed, but I'll play along on this) to my list of ways to be a stumbling block...

[Carm_88]

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I quickly exited, and the Lord was gracious enough to blank them from my memory.

Right. I'm sure that MLB has no idea what those words are now. Bless her heart! Seriously, if you have to spend your time blocking out words before you read a book, you're doing things wrong. 

[Rachel333]

That was nice of God to wipe her memory that time. I guess he doesn't do it at other times, though.

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Ironically enough, I have received most of my mental scars from books by Christian women. Much of the vulgar words I have to deal with are from conservative evangelicals or people who claim to be renewed by our Lord Jesus Christ.

She has mental scars from being subjected to vulgarity!

She must seriously spend a long time censoring books. This quote is four years old, so who knows how many yards she has gone through since?

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I have gone through approximately 35 yards of correction tape in my literary quest to blank out foul language, which amounts to 105 feet and 1,260 inches. This distance is about the length of a city block.  Needless to say, dealing with dirty words is an important topic to me, and one that I think is taken entirely too lightly among Christian bibliophiles. 

I'd love to see a list of words she considers bad enough to be taped over, but I guess providing such a list would go against what she's trying to do.

I do think it's odd how much she talks about bad words causing her to struggle. What is she struggling with? Maybe it's like the "don't think of a pink elephant" phenomenon where trying to repress bad words just makes her think about it more.

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On the subject of language, if this is an area you struggle with as I did, you may want to avoid books with language for a length of time. 

So just picture books then? 

[Hane]

She's one of those dainty flowers who shudder at the very prospect of "minced oaths," like "darn," "heck," and "jeepers."

[Dreadcrumbs]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

I'd love to see a list of words she considers bad enough to be taped over, but I guess providing such a list would go against what she's trying to do.

 

I pictured her censoring words that have naughty words in them. And perhaps even replacing some of those naughty words.

Not 100% sure she would actually go that far, but it doesn't look like a huge leap. 

[Snarfblatt]

6 hours ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

So she's reviewed like...120 books.  (I didn't count them, but estimated).  Are those the only books she's READ or just the only ones she bothered to review? If that's all she's read, she actually writes pretty well given how little teen/adult reading she's done.  But I'd take away marks anyway based on how narrow the scope of her reading is.  Seriously child, if you're going to call yourself a bibliophile, at least start with--oh, I don't know, Time's 100 best books or something, if only to appear a teensy bit more credible!     

In one of her L M Montgomery reviews she mentioned that while she adores Anne of Green Gables she doesn't care for Emily, which doesn't surprise me given how fond she is of Pollyanna, which means she has read the Emily books but not reviewed them. So I would imagine that she just reviews a fraction of what she reads.

ETA: Although according to Goodreads she has read 175 books so maybe she does review most of what she reads.  I mean I don't anymore but there were a few years where I read more than 175 books in a year. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Snarfblatt

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, Snarfblatt said:

In one of her L M Montgomery reviews she mentioned that while she adores Anne of Green Gables she doesn't care for Emily, which doesn't surprise me given how fond she is of Pollyanna, which means she has read the Emily books but not reviewed them. So I would imagine that she just reviews a fraction of what she reads.

ETA: Although according to Goodreads she has read 175 books so maybe she does review most of what she reads.  I mean I don't anymore but there were a few years where I read more than 175 books in a year. 

Well the Emily books are a lot darker than Anne of Green Gables. I'm not shocked that she hasn't reviewed Emily. 

[JillyO]

So, practically speaking... how do you censor a book without reading it first? How does she tape out "language" without reading said "language"? I don't get it. Anyone?

[alba]

So, practically speaking... how do you censor a book without reading it first? How does she tape out "language" without reading said "language"? I don't get it. Anyone?

LMAO I was wondering this, too. Maybe it's for re-reading, so her mind only needs to be sullied once?

[Lurky]

9 hours ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

I pictured her censoring words that have naughty words in them. And perhaps even replacing some of those naughty words.

Now you're making me laugh, remembering the early days of internet filters, where the filters put in for some schools in the county of Essex wouldn't let them look at anything with the word "Essex"...  and the same with the town of Scunthorpe....

[alba]

From her post on dealing with profanity:

Christ is the most authentic story teller that ever was, ever is, and ever will be, and he never considered it necessary to swear to be authentic.

Umm, did we read the same Bible? Jesus told parables and other allegorical stories (hmm, I wonder what Tolkien thought of that), not stories that strove for authenticity.

[mango_fandango]

It's like people who criticise comedians for swearing. I don't mind it. If it's every other word then that's not OK, but as long as it's occasional/used for emphasis or in a phrase like "fuck off", I don't care. Americans also have a different attitude to the British. On American chat shows all rude words are beeped, not just "fuck" and "shit" but also "ass". On British chat shows words don't tend to be bleeped, and sometimes American guests on say The Graham Norton Show aren't sure whether they're allowed to swear or not. We have a thing called a "watershed" before which swearing isn't allowed. (It's at 9pm I believe). After this swear words won't be bleeped. Actually I think some are, some aren't. Depends on the show sometimes too. 

People who are snobby about swearing are just irritating. It's not the nicest language, sure, but it's not awful if used occasionally. Some words are more acceptable than others of course, but people can be too overly precious about it.

Edited November 21, 2016 by mango_fandango

[LilMissMetaphor]

10 hours ago, Snarfblatt said:

In one of her L M Montgomery reviews she mentioned that while she adores Anne of Green Gables she doesn't care for Emily, which doesn't surprise me given how fond she is of Pollyanna, which means she has read the Emily books but not reviewed them. So I would imagine that she just reviews a fraction of what she reads.

ETA: Although according to Goodreads she has read 175 books so maybe she does review most of what she reads.  I mean I don't anymore but there were a few years where I read more than 175 books in a year. 

Right? This is what I was wondering about.  Because I have 600+ books on Goodreads, and that's just since 2008 plus whatever I can remember from before I started tracking, but I read so voraciously as a child and in high school (and I never counted children's fic, YA novels, Westerns or Harlequin romances, or anything else that can be sort of interchangeable).  I'm not saying I'm super-special; I know there are plenty of folks who have read much more than that, but Schuyler should be going by some sort of quantifiable industry standard, not just three books by Ken Ham and a bit of Gene Stratton-Porter.

[Shoobydoo]

People getting offended about cursing annoys me to no end. At the ren fest last year, a woman behind us was reading the texts on her daughter's phone () and got in a hissy fit because one of them had the word "damn" in it. It might have even been darn, I don't quite recall. I very nearly turned around, looked her in the eye, and said "That's just a fucking shame, isn't it?" Darn my conflict-avoiding nature...

I would love to know exactly what language gave her "mental scars". 

ETA: My own mother curses like a sailor. I probably curse like several sailors. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Shoobydoo

[smittykins]

3 hours ago, Lurky said:

Now you're making me laugh, remembering the early days of internet filters, where the filters put in for some schools in the county of Essex wouldn't let them look at anything with the word "Essex"...  and the same with the town of Scunthorpe....

I once stumbled upon a music message board with an...interesting censor filter.("Dick Clark" was changed to "Thingy Clark." 

[Rachel333]

I remember once seeing a discussion about the pronunciation of the Ouachita mountains. The person was trying to write "Washita" but it kept coming out as "Wacrapa."

[PennySycamore]

@Shoobydoo, that woman at  Red Rest probably gets the vapors at the end of Gone With the Wind when Clark Gable says his most famous line.

[JillyO]

39 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I remember once seeing a discussion about the pronunciation of the Ouachita mountains. The person was trying to write "Washita" but it kept coming out as "Wacrapa."

You just sent me into a hysterical laughing fit. I don't know why I find that so funny, but I can't stop laughing.